It is currently Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:39 pm




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Rugby injuries levels threatening to the game as we know it? 
Author Message
World XV Player
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:37 pm
Posts: 11306
Post Rugby injuries levels threatening to the game as we know it?
I posted in the French rugby section that the French Pro Players Union had set up a formal body to address the increasing concern surrounding injuries/
Increased Press today an example follows:

Image

Image shows :

% area of body injuries
12% ankles
13% thighs
17.5 % shoulder
13% head
14% knee ..etc
Activities potential cause

Making tackles 31.2%
Exhaustion 17.5%
Taking a tackle
Wear and tear 15.4%
Free for all 7.9%
Maul 2.4%
Others 16.8%
Specifics (reportable injuries)

Twist, sprain concussion 31.2%
Fracture 9.6%
Superficial 4.6%
Muscular/tendon4.5%
Concussion/cerebral 4.4%
Others 17.7%
78 injuries / 1000hrs play (not sure of explanation)
---------------------------------------------------------------

Now the more worrying aspect !

(translated and multiple %s of different sample section makes it a bit confusing I have to say!)

American football
100 Pro players :
Autopsies :

Total revealed degeneration cerebral
-----------------------------------

210 mixed player population (pro, semi pro, uni, ..)analysis :

170 of them died at an average age of 66 having played for 15 yrs
Of those 111 NFL players figured in this analysis 110 showed cerebral problems
(the higher the level the more the problem)
Of these 27 of the sufferers 96% showed comportment probs or depression, 85% concentration issues, and 33% dementia.

Of 84 of the retired playes 95% cognitive probs and 85% dementia.

There followed other articles and authors amongst them Cudmore who has been on a concussion mission for some time although his antics on the field was ‘aggressive to say the least :D
---------------------------------------------------

French rugby at the non pro level which is less covered formally with expert medical opinion and expertise is starting an experiment this weekend where the ref can award a blue card limiting the minimal potential return to playing etc. The announcement detail is awaiting publication.

The procedure is already underway in Aus.
---------------------------------------------------

Whatever …. The prime Q is …’Is our Game in danger of radical change or even suppression? It has become a dangerous Sport!

_________________
ImageEasy to consider past and present, it's the future and associated plan and strategy to achieve that takes the talent ..


Wed Sep 06, 2017 1:08 pm
Profile
British & Irish Lions Player

Joined: Sat Apr 28, 2012 7:25 pm
Posts: 2164
Location: On a very steep hill
Post Re: Rugby injuries levels threatening to the game as we know it?
one positive thing to note there is the decline of neck injuries. When I was playing, 70's 80's and 90's it was always a worry, but doesn't even get a mention on that list

_________________
I'm politically correct, a social justice warrior, a Snowflake and a male feminist ......apparently
I'm also a dopey *bar steward* a childish fukkwit and a liar


Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:11 pm
Profile E-mail
World XV Player
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:37 pm
Posts: 11306
Post Re: Rugby injuries levels threatening to the game as we know it?
Big And Dull wrote:
one positive thing to note there is the decline of neck injuries. When I was playing, 70's 80's and 90's it was always a worry, but doesn't even get a mention on that list


Other than the distinct cerebral connection cardiovascular of neck and head and brain supply and concussion and effects?

I'm no expert but I dont think that one can easily divorce neck injuries.

_________________
ImageEasy to consider past and present, it's the future and associated plan and strategy to achieve that takes the talent ..


Wed Sep 06, 2017 3:57 pm
Profile
World XV Player
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 5:40 pm
Posts: 60018
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Post Re: Rugby injuries levels threatening to the game as we know it?
I must admit I spend a few hours looking at some of the rugby in the pre internet era and have been watching some of the Lions games in the SH in the 1983-1995 era, increasingly not a good period for Welsh rugby.
I had never seen any of these games, or knew the results, so could watch with keen interest.

Obvious differences with the modern pro game:

1) Rucking was used, and resulted often in a quicker breakdown
2) Cleaning out at the breakdown away from the ball happened less
3) Scrum engagement was very different and much faster, but also ended in messes
4) A lot more kicking then than now, with ball in play for less time
5) Players generally were smaller physically and resembled normal human size
6) Handling skills were generally poorer than today, but older fans tend to remember only the good bits
7) There was more space between the front and cover defence, than in the game today

Most players lasted the 80 minutes, and there were fewer injuries it seems. Maybe it is the combination of the size and speed of the modern pro game presents challenges which the laws of the game were not designed for?

The NFL, (sorry, Tel) has worked hard to clean up its game and while obviously a different game, players are now smaller and quicker than, say, 5 years ago. No more use of the helmet, no more Samoan tackles, and other rules have changed.

To me the Pro 14 games seem to be a step down from the Aviva or Top 14 games in terms of a physical confrontation type game. The latter seems to full of tough tackling where the ball sometimes is of secondary importance. It makes the crowd roar, as they are often wine/beer filled morons who cheer any form of violence.

The game we all love is one where players of all types and sizes can co exist, but that image is becoming a thing of the past. I wonder if the injury track record is the same in Rugby League, which in some ways might be the format of Rugby that survives.

_________________
We are all in the gutter but me and my mam are looking at the stars!


Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:33 am
Profile
World XV Player
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:37 pm
Posts: 11306
Post Re: Rugby injuries levels threatening to the game as we know it?
duplicate ..see below

_________________
ImageEasy to consider past and present, it's the future and associated plan and strategy to achieve that takes the talent ..


Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:27 am
Profile
World XV Player
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:37 pm
Posts: 11306
Post Re: Rugby injuries levels threatening to the game as we know it?
Langland Exile wrote:
I must admit I spend a few hours looking at some of the rugby in the pre internet era and have been watching some of the Lions games in the SH in the 1983-1995 era, increasingly not a good period for Welsh rugby.
I had never seen any of these games, or knew the results, so could watch with keen interest.

Obvious differences with the modern pro game:

1) Rucking was used, and resulted often in a quicker breakdown
2) Cleaning out at the breakdown away from the ball happened less
3) Scrum engagement was very different and much faster, but also ended in messes
4) A lot more kicking then than now, with ball in play for less time
5) Players generally were smaller physically and resembled normal human size
6) Handling skills were generally poorer than today, but older fans tend to remember only the good bits
7) There was more space between the front and cover defence, than in the game today

Most players lasted the 80 minutes, and there were fewer injuries it seems. Maybe it is the combination of the size and speed of the modern pro game presents challenges which the laws of the game were not designed for?

The NFL, (sorry, Tel) has worked hard to clean up its game and while obviously a different game, players are now smaller and quicker than, say, 5 years ago. No more use of the helmet, no more Samoan tackles, and other rules have changed.

To me the Pro 14 games seem to be a step down from the Aviva or Top 14 games in terms of a physical confrontation type game. The latter seems to full of tough tackling where the ball sometimes is of secondary importance. It makes the crowd roar, as they are often wine/beer filled morons who cheer any form of violence.

The game we all love is one where players of all types and sizes can co exist, but that image is becoming a thing of the past. I wonder if the injury track record is the same in Rugby League, which in some ways might be the format of Rugby that survives.


David, I think the major point is what is going to be done about it.

I accept your point regarding NFL ...therehave been chznges presumably after initiative.

Interesting to note that the inaugual meeting of the new initiative yesterday and the FFR were absent!

One senses pique or reticence to getinvolved with someone else's initiative :roll:

This is bloody typical of politics getting in theway of progress!!

I can see this issue being a watershed in relations and maybe significant action taken by the Union.

It can only strengthen their position ;)

_________________
ImageEasy to consider past and present, it's the future and associated plan and strategy to achieve that takes the talent ..


Thu Sep 07, 2017 10:28 am
Profile
World XV Player
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 5:40 pm
Posts: 60018
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Post Re: Rugby injuries levels threatening to the game as we know it?
Forgive me if I took your thread off your track seemingly, and did not follow your rules on an open forum.

I was trying to look at the evolution of the game in the last 25 years and trying to figure out whether we had all these issues in the 1990 timeframe and was it just they were ignored or swept under the table. The NFL Players sued the league and have effected change and the set aside of pension and medical support for ex players here.
Rugby may need something similar.

One thing I continue to be surprised at is the relatively low role players have in the process. It is their game, and people pay to watch them not administrators and owners.

_________________
We are all in the gutter but me and my mam are looking at the stars!


Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:49 pm
Profile
World XV Player
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:37 pm
Posts: 11306
Post Re: Rugby injuries levels threatening to the game as we know it?
Langland Exile wrote:
Forgive me if I took your thread off your track seemingly, and did not follow your rules on an open forum.
David
???????

Sorry, I don't get this comment... :scratch:

I was building on the fact that the NFL had apparently taken the initiative given the evidence on record.

There was no intention of complaint of taking the thread off track etc

In fact it built the issue and I noted the comments how politics can get in the way of progress of a priority issue in the case of apparent wrangling about responsibility and governance as seems to be the case of FFR absence in the french initiative:scratch:


I was trying to look at the evolution of the game in the last 25 years and trying to figure out whether we had all these issues in the 1990 timeframe and was it just they were ignored or swept under the table. The NFL Players sued the league and have effected change and the set aside of pension and medical support for ex players here.
Rugby may need something similar.

One thing I continue to be surprised at is the relatively low role players have in the process. It is their game, and people pay to watch them not administrators and owners.

_________________
ImageEasy to consider past and present, it's the future and associated plan and strategy to achieve that takes the talent ..


Thu Sep 07, 2017 3:08 pm
Profile
British & Irish Lions Player

Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2016 5:42 pm
Posts: 2289
Post Re: Rugby injuries levels threatening to the game as we know it?
Not sure to what extent what I am about to say is relevant as such, but my father and I commented to each other during the Lions matches how the All Black forwards generally looked a lot slimmer and fitter than their Lions counterparts, and most of their weight consisted of muscle rather than fat. It seems that in order to stay fit and do well in the modern game, old-school fatties of the Adam Jones, Paul James and Vunipola varieties will gradually have to disappear. In a way it is a shame, as the old ethos of "a game for all shapes and sizes" will be supplanted by "you must look like a Greek God - or else!"


Fri Sep 08, 2017 3:31 pm
Profile E-mail
World XV Player
User avatar

Joined: Thu May 06, 2004 5:40 pm
Posts: 60018
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Post Re: Rugby injuries levels threatening to the game as we know it?
At the pro level yes...look how small the Scarlets pack is.... 240 lb locks not 280lb

_________________
We are all in the gutter but me and my mam are looking at the stars!


Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:52 am
Profile
Regional Junior Player

Joined: Sun Jul 09, 2017 4:16 pm
Posts: 160
Post Re: Rugby injuries levels threatening to the game as we know it?
I think that present day injuries are purely just down to player size. 50 years ago 6 of the 8 forwards were never expected to travel at more than walking pace, whereas these days 22 stone forwards are over taking the likes of Steffan Jones. Remember when history was made in Paris as Graham Price ran 50 yards to score a try.
We also have teams full of bulk in the back division. There is no place now for guys like Matthew Morgan, I am sad to say.

I think it would be a good idea to introduce a rule that only allowed replacements for genuine doctor certified injuries. Players would then adjust themselves to an 80 minute game, rather than the present 60/20 period.


Sat Sep 09, 2017 10:43 pm
Profile E-mail
World XV Player
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:37 pm
Posts: 11306
Post Re: Rugby injuries levels threatening to the game as we know it?
JOHNWALES wrote:
I think that present day injuries are purely just down to player size. 50 years ago 6 of the 8 forwards were never expected to travel at more than walking pace, whereas these days 22 stone forwards are over taking the likes of Steffan Jones. Remember when history was made in Paris as Graham Price ran 50 yards to score a try.
We also have teams full of bulk in the back division. There is no place now for guys like Matthew Morgan, I am sad to say.

I think it would be a good idea to introduce a rule that only allowed replacements for genuine doctor certified injuries. Players would then adjust themselves to an 80 minute game, rather than the present 60/20 period.


John, the graphic in the first post shows the size differential over time (RHS of graphic)

_________________
ImageEasy to consider past and present, it's the future and associated plan and strategy to achieve that takes the talent ..


Sun Sep 10, 2017 11:29 am
Profile
World XV Player
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:37 pm
Posts: 11306
Post Re: Rugby injuries levels threatening to the game as we know it?
JOHNWALES wrote:
I think that present day injuries are purely just down to player size. 50 years ago 6 of the 8 forwards were never expected to travel at more than walking pace, whereas these days 22 stone forwards are over taking the likes of Steffan Jones. Remember when history was made in Paris as Graham Price ran 50 yards to score a try.
We also have teams full of bulk in the back division. There is no place now for guys like Matthew Morgan, I am sad to say.

I think it would be a good idea to introduce a rule that only allowed replacements for genuine doctor certified injuries. Players would then adjust themselves to an 80 minute game, rather than the present 60/20 period.


John, the graphic in the first post shows the size differential over time (RHS of graphic)

reproduced here (20 years)

Image

_________________
ImageEasy to consider past and present, it's the future and associated plan and strategy to achieve that takes the talent ..


Sun Sep 10, 2017 11:29 am
Profile
World XV Player
User avatar

Joined: Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:37 pm
Posts: 11306
Post Re: Rugby injuries levels threatening to the game as we know it?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Too late to edit ... size doesn't highlight muscularity, fitness and power aspect, also padding.

_________________
ImageEasy to consider past and present, it's the future and associated plan and strategy to achieve that takes the talent ..


Sun Sep 10, 2017 11:36 am
Profile
World XV Player
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:24 pm
Posts: 44450
Location: Llanharan
Post Re: Rugby injuries levels threatening to the game as we know it?
Tony Panties wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Too late to edit ... size doesn't highlight muscularity, fitness and power aspect, also padding.


E = MxCsquared


Sun Sep 10, 2017 11:41 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 26 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: