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Rise of the minnows? Is this a sign for things to come? 
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Post Rise of the minnows? Is this a sign for things to come?
Today in the U20s Italy, Georgia and very nearly Japan all beat traditionally much stronger teams. Is this a sign of things to come? Is rugby finally and belatedly opening up and becoming more genuinely competitive?


Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:42 pm
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Post Re: Rise of the minnows? Is this a sign for things to come?
No

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Thu Jun 07, 2018 7:47 pm
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Post Re: Rise of the minnows? Is this a sign for things to come?
najbritcol wrote:
Today in the U20s Italy, Georgia and very nearly Japan all beat traditionally much stronger teams. Is this a sign of things to come? Is rugby finally and belatedly opening up and becoming more genuinely competitive?


U20 and seniors are completely different beasts. NZ is the only team to have consistently dominated both. England at U20 are on a similar level to NZ in terms of consistency and skill but not even close at senior level.

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Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:12 pm
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Post Re: Rise of the minnows? Is this a sign for things to come?
Troron wrote:
najbritcol wrote:
Today in the U20s Italy, Georgia and very nearly Japan all beat traditionally much stronger teams. Is this a sign of things to come? Is rugby finally and belatedly opening up and becoming more genuinely competitive?


U20 and seniors are completely different beasts. NZ is the only team to have consistently dominated both. England at U20 are on a similar level to NZ in terms of consistency and skill but not even close at senior level.


While Ireland nowadays excel at senior level but are fairly mediocre most years at U20s.


Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:31 pm
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Post Re: Rise of the minnows? Is this a sign for things to come?
najbritcol wrote:
Troron wrote:
najbritcol wrote:
Today in the U20s Italy, Georgia and very nearly Japan all beat traditionally much stronger teams. Is this a sign of things to come? Is rugby finally and belatedly opening up and becoming more genuinely competitive?


U20 and seniors are completely different beasts. NZ is the only team to have consistently dominated both. England at U20 are on a similar level to NZ in terms of consistency and skill but not even close at senior level.


While Ireland nowadays excel at senior level but are fairly mediocre most years at U20s.


Exactly. Wales and Ireland have both been pretty poor at U20 level yet have gone on to win grand slams and had periods where they were the best NH team. I doubt that once the Italian and Irish U20 players enter the seniors we will see anything more than regular thrashings by the Irish as usual.

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Thu Jun 07, 2018 10:53 pm
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Post Re: Rise of the minnows? Is this a sign for things to come?
U20 is a 1 off team of kids, pretty much different every year. Results at this tourney mean sfa in regards to a countries progress.

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Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:13 pm
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Post Re: Rise of the minnows? Is this a sign for things to come?
loosechange wrote:
U20 is a 1 off team of kids, pretty much different every year. Results at this tourney mean sfa in regards to a countries progress.


There are some special crops and some outstanding players that are more noticeable amongst countries that are less consistent in their ongoing success factors?

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Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:15 am
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Post Re: Rise of the minnows? Is this a sign for things to come?
Georgia have an excellent development system (relative to their overall level of wealth and the standard of their seniors). Yes, this is only u20 level and success dorsnt always translate to the senior level, but they are only getting better and there's nothing to suggest that they won't continue to do so, even if the lack of opportunities to play better sides isn't helping (though this is supposed to improve after the WC with the new calendar). Japan are similarly improving, though I can't see them getting out of their group at the WC. No doubt they will want to expand the U20 championship back up to 16 teams now it looks like a 6N side might be relegated.


Fri Jun 08, 2018 7:34 am
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Post Re: Rise of the minnows? Is this a sign for things to come?
Figaro wrote:
Georgia have an excellent development system (relative to their overall level of wealth and the standard of their seniors). Yes, this is only u20 level and success dorsnt always translate to the senior level, but they are only getting better and there's nothing to suggest that they won't continue to do so, even if the lack of opportunities to play better sides isn't helping (though this is supposed to improve after the WC with the new calendar). Japan are similarly improving, though I can't see them getting out of their group at the WC. No doubt they will want to expand the U20 championship back up to 16 teams now it looks like a 6N side might be relegated.


Italy have already been relegated from it a few times in the past. :D But I know what you mean.


Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:23 am
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Post Re: Rise of the minnows? Is this a sign for things to come?
Perhaps I should have said 5N...


Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:26 am
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Post Re: Rise of the minnows? Is this a sign for things to come?
najbritcol wrote:
Today in the U20s Italy, Georgia and very nearly Japan all beat traditionally much stronger teams. Is this a sign of things to come? Is rugby finally and belatedly opening up and becoming more genuinely competitive?


Response to theory #324:

One of your worst yet, do keep it up :thumbup:

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Fri Jun 08, 2018 1:28 pm
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Post Re: Rise of the minnows? Is this a sign for things to come?
najbritcol wrote:
Today in the U20s Italy, Georgia and very nearly Japan all beat traditionally much stronger teams. Is this a sign of things to come? Is rugby finally and belatedly opening up and becoming more genuinely competitive?


No. Its a sign of different structure with the U20s off bigger sides are often involved in senior side and higher level rugby. They simply don't put as much focus on age group development. The structures are different.

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