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Rhys Webb out for the season remaining. 
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Post Re: Rhys Webb out for the season remaining.
najbritcol wrote:
Not sure how relevant this is, but JD2 in an interview with The Rugby Paper commented on how attritional the Top 14 is and how poor the fitness levels are of a lot of French players. It seems that, whether through default or design, the Pro 14 is less set-piece and collisions focused and more running around focused, so therefore those who succeed in one playing culture don't necessarily do so in the other.


JD lack of success at Clermont was largely attributed to his partnership with Fofana.
They didn't 'fit'. Fofana's atribute is that he attacks the line and spins out of tackles, a lot of the Clermont game was built around these attacks with the back row often in attendance and quick ball to the blindside.

JD was often left somewhat isolated and out of play and it didn't play to his strengths out wide. I watched a lot of the games and could see this aspect.

It could be said that this was poor foresight in his signing but I think that this is a valid reason.

I don't think that Clermont's fitness was an issue??

Naj, Clermont at an attacking team and noted for it, I don't think that your commen is valid to them?

I posed the question back to Tyler because a broad statement of 'Welsh players don't succeed in France , name one' is worth considering why!!??

I have answered his Q, .. "name 1" by naming 3 (above) that did succeed.

Others ... I would comment on would be as follows :

Gethin .. was caught out scrum time ... he was penalised often and was eventually just a 60 min sub. He got screwed in the department in the Top14.

Lydiate ... was a glaring apect of Racing buying a 'Player of the year' blindside and then playing him left and right. A clear silly purchase by Racing.

Roberts... quite simply he didn't cut the mustard at Racing, they didn't try and change his play eventually they preferred Chavancy a similar type of player and he was picked on form. Whether Roberts was as committed as much as he should've been is debatable and his contract was terminated early. He went to Cambridge U and Quins.

Just examples and it is worth exploring reasons for apparent failures rather than just a blanket comment?

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Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:28 am
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Post Re: Rhys Webb out for the season remaining.
Tel, do you think language has been a barrier for Welsh players.

I love going to France and have been going there every summer for about 10 years now but I am embarrassed at my lack of ability to communicate in French. It limits my ability to 'blend in' which is ok for a two week holiday. But I can imagine communication on and off the rugby field could really hamper the integration of a player into a side and be demotivating.

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Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:54 am
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Post Re: Rhys Webb out for the season remaining.
ICEverything wrote:
Tel, do you think language has been a barrier for Welsh players.

I love going to France and have been going there every summer for about 10 years now but I am embarrassed at my lack of ability to communicate in French. It limits my ability to 'blend in' which is ok for a two week holiday. But I can imagine communication on and off the rugby field could really hamper the integration of a player into a side and be demotivating.


Some do take the language quickly, in theory anf welsh speaking welshman should adopt quickly if the much held theory that after assimulating a second language it is easier to assimulate others.

I dont think that there'a a hard and fast opinion

If I relate it to ex pats, it is not a good experience, many create a mini UK environment even importing UK products and food. They congregate together, rarely integrate and just take general advantage. Of course, speaking the language is essential for integration ....Satellite availzbility doesn't help adopting the language either.

I've not forgotten an instance when I was sat outside the café with a french friend in Summer on market day and Pierre commented 'écoute Thery le troupeau anglaisarrivent!'...listen Tel the english. herd are arriving ...another feature ...they hunt in packs and you can hear them from a distance.

i always say 'il y a trop d'anglais en France et pas assez de Gallois'....British are referred to as 'anglais' ie english
my comment 'there are too many english in France and not enough Welsh' ....hence differentiating ;)

Living in the epicentre of french rugby it is relatively easy to integrate with a common passion.

I'm often asked by french ...what is the best way to learn english and I comment to the more beautiful women ´sur le lit'

ie on the bed!

I've lived here 29 years this Autumn (3 years in Paris) and I love it, but home is still where the heart lies

Apologies for ´dai'gressing :D

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Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:27 am
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Post Re: Rhys Webb out for the season remaining.
Got a bit saucy there towards the end Tel. :shock: :oops: :D

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Tue Mar 20, 2018 11:56 am
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Post Re: Rhys Webb out for the season remaining.
ICEverything wrote:
Got a bit saucy there towards the end Tel. :shock: :oops: :D


The answer is Rob, given you love Western France so much (who doesn't) is to maybe think of retiring there? If you live and work anywhere (particularly France?) You will suddenly turn round after a few months and realise that you are talking the language without referring to another anglophone so often?
Couple of things you can do now.......... Take a French newspaper regularly, watch French channels on TV, and, (what I did?) buy a French language course you can learn while you are in the car? Also, if you are out and about in France (shopping?) ask a French local what something is in French, by pointing? You being a Welsh speaker should pick it up fairly quickly?

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Tue Mar 20, 2018 12:19 pm
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Post Re: Rhys Webb out for the season remaining.
Otto wrote:
ICEverything wrote:
Got a bit saucy there towards the end Tel. :shock: :oops: :D


The answer is Rob, given you love Western France so much (who doesn't) is to maybe think of retiring there? If you live and work anywhere (particularly France?) You will suddenly turn round after a few months and realise that you are talking the language without referring to another anglophone so often?
Couple of things you can do now.......... Take a French newspaper regularly, watch French channels on TV, and, (what I did?) buy a French language course you can learn while you are in the car? Also, if you are out and about in France (shopping?) ask a French local what something is in French, by pointing? You being a Welsh speaker should pick it up fairly quickly?


I know expats who have lived here +20 years and still can't speak the language.
Wadr Otto I think that you are oversimplifying it ;)

The Region I live in the accent is very different and patois is still employed. I also think that one has to get directly integrated to really become somewhat fluent. French courses are ok but they usually lack the 'familiar' language which is sometimes local too.

The french are generally friendly but very family oriented and it can be difficult to become 'friends'...

I was lucky to have particular opportunities to integrate namely, in the first instance, rugby where my son played for Paris University Club and I became involved too.

When we moved to the SW I exhibited my poultry around France and had to integrate!

It's not a magic wand and just involved and media related!?

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Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:11 pm
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Post Re: Rhys Webb out for the season remaining.
Tony Panties wrote:
Otto wrote:
ICEverything wrote:
Got a bit saucy there towards the end Tel. :shock: :oops: :D


The answer is Rob, given you love Western France so much (who doesn't) is to maybe think of retiring there? If you live and work anywhere (particularly France?) You will suddenly turn round after a few months and realise that you are talking the language without referring to another anglophone so often?
Couple of things you can do now.......... Take a French newspaper regularly, watch French channels on TV, and, (what I did?) buy a French language course you can learn while you are in the car? Also, if you are out and about in France (shopping?) ask a French local what something is in French, by pointing? You being a Welsh speaker should pick it up fairly quickly?


I know expats who have lived here +20 years and still can't speak the language.
Wadr Otto I think that you are oversimplifying it
;)

The Region I live in the accent is very different and patois is still employed. I also think that one has to get directly integrated to really become somewhat fluent. French courses are ok but they usually lack the 'familiar' language which is sometimes local too.

The french are generally friendly but very family oriented and it can be difficult to become 'friends'...

I was lucky to have particular opportunities to integrate namely, in the first instance, rugby where my son played for Paris University Club and I became involved too.

When we moved to the SW I exhibited my poultry around France and had to integrate!

It's not a magic wand and just involved and media related!?


Do explain Tel, how offering someone advice (not you by the way, I thought I'd answered Icey!!) on learning the French language is oversimplifying it?
Do tell me, how a busy person like Rob, who probably, spends as much time in his car as in work, could learn French? I was tossed into a situation where I was forced to learn French (the 2nd time, almost a different patois altogether!!) and I found the Pimsleur series a wonderful aid? Or, have I not a clue in how to offer someone some help based on personal experience?

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"I have to say, I find that offensive toward (insert cause/belief)"

Bit of tough luck for you then, old chap. I really don't give a toss about your perceived sensibilities!!


Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:44 pm
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Post Re: Rhys Webb out for the season remaining.
Otto wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
Otto wrote:
ICEverything wrote:
Got a bit saucy there towards the end Tel. :shock: :oops: :D


The answer is Rob, given you love Western France so much (who doesn't) is to maybe think of retiring there? If you live and work anywhere (particularly France?) You will suddenly turn round after a few months and realise that you are talking the language without referring to another anglophone so often?
Couple of things you can do now.......... Take a French newspaper regularly, watch French channels on TV, and, (what I did?) buy a French language course you can learn while you are in the car? Also, if you are out and about in France (shopping?) ask a French local what something is in French, by pointing? You being a Welsh speaker should pick it up fairly quickly?


I know expats who have lived here +20 years and still can't speak the language.
Wadr Otto I think that you are oversimplifying it
;)

The Region I live in the accent is very different and patois is still employed. I also think that one has to get directly integrated to really become somewhat fluent. French courses are ok but they usually lack the 'familiar' language which is sometimes local too.

The french are generally friendly but very family oriented and it can be difficult to become 'friends'...

I was lucky to have particular opportunities to integrate namely, in the first instance, rugby where my son played for Paris University Club and I became involved too.

When we moved to the SW I exhibited my poultry around France and had to integrate!

It's not a magic wand and just involved and media related!?


Do explain Tel, how offering someone advice (not you by the way, I thought I'd answered Icey!!) on learning the French language is oversimplifying it?
Do tell me, how a busy person like Rob, who probably, spends as much time in his car as in work, could learn French? I was tossed into a situation where I was forced to learn French (the 2nd time, almost a different patois altogether!!) and I found the Pimsleur series a wonderful aid? Or, have I not a clue in how to offer someone some help based on personal experience?


Otto, not sure if you remember but we have discussed this before, Québécoise et al ...? ;)

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Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:00 pm
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