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Gatland's replacement. 
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Post Re: Gatland's replacement.
Blindside wrote:
stujones1 wrote:
Get the set up right at Grassroots and with the youngsters and head coach's job should be relatively easy. I'd be happy for the Scottish coach pre Townsend (name is escaping me off the top of my head).



Sometimes the simple and obvious conclusion is staring people in the face, but they just dont want to see it.
:thumbright:


Power is more important than results though at the WRU ;)

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Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:02 pm
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Post Re: Gatland's replacement.
Blindside wrote:
jimcardiff wrote:
The current players should not have a say in the choice of coach , let the suits do there job , and take the credit / blame, the players are only casual employees of the Union.



What would "the suits" know about it.

People in suites organise Crufts, it takes a hell of a lot of organising. They have organisational skills (although perhaps the WRU "suits" are not the best example) but they dont then ask them to come down and pick best in breed, why? because of most of them would just think "there's a pretty little dog, i like him". That's what could happen if the mutual appreciation brigade pick it. Their ideal choice would be a coach that licks the hand that feeds it.


We must be careful not to confuse issues here!?

A perceptive business-like executive management would ensure the correct process and consultation for the appointment of a key business post ...one could argue that the post of Dir of Rugby in business terms is like, in a Pro Sport context, a Managing Director ie ie shaping the product (on the field performance) and its development and futures.

Then, The Dir of Rugy who is resposnsible for the delivery of his obligation should be in rapport with the said executive who provide funding, strategic influences and essential financing, administration, organisation and audit.

In a successful Pro Sport outfit it would be a synchronised fit.

Imho Welsh Rugby doesn't have the nous as to where to start on this essential understanding and implementation.

We are constantly referring to NZ model, not to say that anybody should try for the identical fit, the message is clearly there ... total integration.

Majoring on new National Coach is missing the much bigger issue of revising the total.

The theme outlined by intuitive posters has clearly emphasised the point that the provision of skills by development is an essential part BEFORE the National manipulation and Coaching is truly relevant!!

How to achieve that in this environment I would not want to pee into the wind.

Therefore, expect more of the same ...

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Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:12 pm
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Post Re: Gatland's replacement.
Blindside wrote:
jimcardiff wrote:
The current players should not have a say in the choice of coach , let the suits do there job , and take the credit / blame, the players are only casual employees of the Union.



What would "the suits" know about it.

People in suites organise Crufts, it takes a hell of a lot of organising. They have organisational skills (although perhaps the WRU "suits" are not the best example) but they dont then ask them to come down and pick best in breed, why? because of most of them would just think "there's a pretty little dog, i like him". That's what could happen if the mutual appreciation brigade pick it. Their ideal choice would be a coach that licks the hand that feeds it.


We must be careful not to confuse issues here!?

A perceptive business-like executive management would ensure the correct process and consultation for the appointment of a key business post ...one could argue that the post of Dir of Rugby in business terms is like, in a Pro Sport context, a Managing Director ie ie shaping the product (on the field performance) and its development and futures.

Then, The Dir of Rugy who is resposnsible for the delivery of his obligation should be in rapport with the said executive who provide funding, strategic influences and essential financing, administration, organisation and audit.

In a successful Pro Sport outfit it would be a synchronised fit.

Imho Welsh Rugby doesn't have the nous as to where to start on this essential understanding and implementation.

We are constantly referring to NZ model, not to say that anybody should try for the identical fit, the message is clearly there ... total integration.

Majoring on new National Coach is missing the much bigger issue of revising the total.

The theme outlined by intuitive posters has clearly emphasised the point that the provision of skills by development is an essential part BEFORE the National manipulation and Coaching is truly relevant!!

How to achieve that in this environment I would not want to pee into the wind.

Therefore, expect more of the same ...

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Tue Mar 20, 2018 4:12 pm
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Post Re: Gatland's replacement.
najbritcol wrote:
stujones1 wrote:
Get the set up right at Grassroots and with the youngsters and head coach's job should be relatively easy. I'd be happy for the Scottish coach pre Townsend (name is escaping me off the top of my head).


Vern Cotter?


That's the one.


Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:16 pm
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Post Re: Gatland's replacement.
stujones1 wrote:
najbritcol wrote:
stujones1 wrote:
Get the set up right at Grassroots and with the youngsters and head coach's job should be relatively easy. I'd be happy for the Scottish coach pre Townsend (name is escaping me off the top of my head).


Vern Cotter?


That's the one.


Lucrative Altrad contract at Montpelier, he would've been an ideal candidate for Fra Coach .. having previously been successful Coach with Schmidt as his Asst at Clermont

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Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:29 pm
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Post Re: Gatland's replacement.
Tony Panties wrote:
Otto wrote:
Nobody will agree with me I suspect but I'd like to see Gatland retained by the WRU in some position? I'd suspect he could have made a good Chief Exec. but, with the Davies/Phillips regime seemingly cemented on, that's not possible! He has to be the most experienced International coach on the planet and, that's a huge chunk of knowledge and experience to set aside? What bothers me, is that almost every 'elite' appointment in the past years, have all vanished as quickly as they came (Lewsy et al?) I'm sure Gatland could make something of that element?
One question I'd still love an answer to (though it matters little I suppose?) is why, Sean Edwards was Gatlands sole pick for his coaching team? That appeared to me, one of the most weird things about Gatlands contracts since he was appointed? Edwards apart, there is absolutely zero succession process in place! (Unless we agree that either/or McBryde and Howley are first choices to replace him?)


I couldn't disagree more.

Coaching is his metier and not Busin8ess.


Hard to know though whether he would be useful. I suspect that many of the problems he has encountered have been related to the business and organisational problems. Few people in Welsh rugby would be able tp provide input into improving the system.

I suspect that providing this guidance forms some part of his job, even infornally, but I would also assume that he doesn't currently have the time to do it in full. Does this role exist - what was Josh Lewsey's role?


Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:38 pm
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Post Re: Gatland's replacement.
Cymru am byth wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
Otto wrote:
Nobody will agree with me I suspect but I'd like to see Gatland retained by the WRU in some position? I'd suspect he could have made a good Chief Exec. but, with the Davies/Phillips regime seemingly cemented on, that's not possible! He has to be the most experienced International coach on the planet and, that's a huge chunk of knowledge and experience to set aside? What bothers me, is that almost every 'elite' appointment in the past years, have all vanished as quickly as they came (Lewsy et al?) I'm sure Gatland could make something of that element?
One question I'd still love an answer to (though it matters little I suppose?) is why, Sean Edwards was Gatlands sole pick for his coaching team? That appeared to me, one of the most weird things about Gatlands contracts since he was appointed? Edwards apart, there is absolutely zero succession process in place! (Unless we agree that either/or McBryde and Howley are first choices to replace him?)


I couldn't disagree more.

Coaching is his metier and not Busin8ess.


Hard to know though whether he would be useful. I suspect that many of the problems he has encountered have been related to the business and organisational problems. Few people in Welsh rugby would be able tp provide input into improving the system.

I suspect that providing this guidance forms some part of his job, even infornally, but I would also assume that he doesn't currently have the time to do it in full. Does this role exist - what was Josh Lewsey's role?


there is a huge difference between 'being maybe useful' and being productive, progressive and in command and why take the risk??

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Tue Mar 20, 2018 5:47 pm
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Post Re: Gatland's replacement.
Blindside wrote:
jimcardiff wrote:
The current players should not have a say in the choice of coach , let the suits do there job , and take the credit / blame, the players are only casual employees of the Union.



What would "the suits" know about it.

People in suites organise Crufts, it takes a hell of a lot of organising. They have organisational skills (although perhaps the WRU "suits" are not the best example) but they dont then ask them to come down and pick best in breed, why? because of most of them would just think "there's a pretty little dog, i like him". That's what could happen if the mutual appreciation brigade pick it. Their ideal choice would be a coach that licks the hand that feeds it.

Don't know if the dogs pick the judges , would have thought not , but if you say so, the current players are transient , they are the ones who are to be picked or not , ask them for an opinion maybe but that is all .

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Tue Mar 20, 2018 7:31 pm
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Post Re: Gatland's replacement.
Tony Panties wrote:
Cymru am byth wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
Otto wrote:
Nobody will agree with me I suspect but I'd like to see Gatland retained by the WRU in some position? I'd suspect he could have made a good Chief Exec. but, with the Davies/Phillips regime seemingly cemented on, that's not possible! He has to be the most experienced International coach on the planet and, that's a huge chunk of knowledge and experience to set aside? What bothers me, is that almost every 'elite' appointment in the past years, have all vanished as quickly as they came (Lewsy et al?) I'm sure Gatland could make something of that element?
One question I'd still love an answer to (though it matters little I suppose?) is why, Sean Edwards was Gatlands sole pick for his coaching team? That appeared to me, one of the most weird things about Gatlands contracts since he was appointed? Edwards apart, there is absolutely zero succession process in place! (Unless we agree that either/or McBryde and Howley are first choices to replace him?)


I couldn't disagree more.

Coaching is his metier and not Busin8ess.


Hard to know though whether he would be useful. I suspect that many of the problems he has encountered have been related to the business and organisational problems. Few people in Welsh rugby would be able tp provide input into improving the system.

I suspect that providing this guidance forms some part of his job, even infornally, but I would also assume that he doesn't currently have the time to do it in full. Does this role exist - what was Josh Lewsey's role?


there is a huge difference between 'being maybe useful' and being productive, progressive and in command and why take the risk??


Not really. It depends in which function you use him and how. I maintain he would be useful, which surely, by definition is productive? It's about marginal gains.


Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:52 pm
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Post Re: Gatland's replacement.
Cymru am byth wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
Cymru am byth wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
Otto wrote:
Nobody will agree with me I suspect but I'd like to see Gatland retained by the WRU in some position? I'd suspect he could have made a good Chief Exec. but, with the Davies/Phillips regime seemingly cemented on, that's not possible! He has to be the most experienced International coach on the planet and, that's a huge chunk of knowledge and experience to set aside? What bothers me, is that almost every 'elite' appointment in the past years, have all vanished as quickly as they came (Lewsy et al?) I'm sure Gatland could make something of that element?
One question I'd still love an answer to (though it matters little I suppose?) is why, Sean Edwards was Gatlands sole pick for his coaching team? That appeared to me, one of the most weird things about Gatlands contracts since he was appointed? Edwards apart, there is absolutely zero succession process in place! (Unless we agree that either/or McBryde and Howley are first choices to replace him?)


I couldn't disagree more.

Coaching is his metier and not Busin8ess.



Hard to know though whether he would be useful. I suspect that many of the problems he has encountered have been related to the business and organisational problems. Few people in Welsh rugby would be able tp provide input into improving the system.

I suspect that providing this guidance forms some part of his job, even infornally, but I would also assume that he doesn't currently have the time to do it in full. Does this role exist - what was Josh Lewsey's role?


there is a huge difference between 'being maybe useful' and being productive, progressive and in command and why take the risk??


Not really. It depends in which function you use him and how. I maintain he would be useful, which surely, by definition is productive? It's about marginal gains.


Why settle for marginal gains when we should be seeking paradigms.

For me that is an indictment of typical 'fail safe' and treading water?

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Tue Mar 20, 2018 8:59 pm
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Post Re: Gatland's replacement.
Crazy thread that goes round in circles

Various degrees of rightness and who can be most right


Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:06 pm
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Post Re: Gatland's replacement.
AverageBBCjournalist wrote:
Crazy thread that goes round in circles

Just like Welsh Rugby, sometimes akin to the Magic Roundabout with the fans often eager for a ride? ;)

Various degrees of rightness and who can be most right

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Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:12 pm
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Post Re: Gatland's replacement.
Tony Panties wrote:
Cymru am byth wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
Cymru am byth wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
Otto wrote:
Nobody will agree with me I suspect but I'd like to see Gatland retained by the WRU in some position? I'd suspect he could have made a good Chief Exec. but, with the Davies/Phillips regime seemingly cemented on, that's not possible! He has to be the most experienced International coach on the planet and, that's a huge chunk of knowledge and experience to set aside? What bothers me, is that almost every 'elite' appointment in the past years, have all vanished as quickly as they came (Lewsy et al?) I'm sure Gatland could make something of that element?
One question I'd still love an answer to (though it matters little I suppose?) is why, Sean Edwards was Gatlands sole pick for his coaching team? That appeared to me, one of the most weird things about Gatlands contracts since he was appointed? Edwards apart, there is absolutely zero succession process in place! (Unless we agree that either/or McBryde and Howley are first choices to replace him?)


I couldn't disagree more.

Coaching is his metier and not Busin8ess.



Hard to know though whether he would be useful. I suspect that many of the problems he has encountered have been related to the business and organisational problems. Few people in Welsh rugby would be able tp provide input into improving the system.

I suspect that providing this guidance forms some part of his job, even infornally, but I would also assume that he doesn't currently have the time to do it in full. Does this role exist - what was Josh Lewsey's role?


there is a huge difference between 'being maybe useful' and being productive, progressive and in command and why take the risk??


Not really. It depends in which function you use him and how. I maintain he would be useful, which surely, by definition is productive? It's about marginal gains.


Why settle for marginal gains when we should be seeking paradigms.

For me that is an indictment of typical 'fail safe' and treading water?


But surely Gatland knows the problems more than almost anyone? You can offer him and someone else two different jobs.


Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:20 pm
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Post Re: Gatland's replacement.
Cymru am byth wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
Cymru am byth wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
Cymru am byth wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
Otto wrote:
Nobody will agree with me I suspect but I'd like to see Gatland retained by the WRU in some position? I'd suspect he could have made a good Chief Exec. but, with the Davies/Phillips regime seemingly cemented on, that's not possible! He has to be the most experienced International coach on the planet and, that's a huge chunk of knowledge and experience to set aside? What bothers me, is that almost every 'elite' appointment in the past years, have all vanished as quickly as they came (Lewsy et al?) I'm sure Gatland could make something of that element?
One question I'd still love an answer to (though it matters little I suppose?) is why, Sean Edwards was Gatlands sole pick for his coaching team? That appeared to me, one of the most weird things about Gatlands contracts since he was appointed? Edwards apart, there is absolutely zero succession process in place! (Unless we agree that either/or McBryde and Howley are first choices to replace him?)


I couldn't disagree more.

Coaching is his metier and not Busin8ess.



Hard to know though whether he would be useful. I suspect that many of the problems he has encountered have been related to the business and organisational problems. Few people in Welsh rugby would be able tp provide input into improving the system.

I suspect that providing this guidance forms some part of his job, even infornally, but I would also assume that he doesn't currently have the time to do it in full. Does this role exist - what was Josh Lewsey's role?


there is a huge difference between 'being maybe useful' and being productive, progressive and in command and why take the risk??


Not really. It depends in which function you use him and how. I maintain he would be useful, which surely, by definition is productive? It's about marginal gains.


Why settle for marginal gains when we should be seeking paradigms.

For me that is an indictment of typical 'fail safe' and treading water?


But surely Gatland knows the problems more than almost anyone? You can offer him and someone else two different jobs.


How vocal and active has he been in addressing them? ;)

'Gatlands law' was a classic ....I'll change it when I feel like example....

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Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:28 pm
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Post Re: Gatland's replacement.
As you say though, he's being paid to do a different job. He knows the problems.


Tue Mar 20, 2018 9:32 pm
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