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The real turning point in the game that the pundits missed! 
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Post The real turning point in the game that the pundits missed!
Everybody is so focussed on the disallowed try that they have overseen a glaring mistake by the referee. First what did we lose by not having the try given i.e 5-7 points as opposed to the 3 points we had by the penalty. So either 12-7, 12-5 or 12-3.
The score was 12-3 so fast forward to the 32 minute fracas in midfield when Garces blows for an infringement in midfield goalside of the 10metre line. Handbags out lads and biff baff 2 minutes later the ref has given his warning and then signals the kick from the wrong spot.
A kick more centrally placed becomes one from 38 to 35 metres out to a kick from 47-43 metres out with a sharper angle. How this was not picked up by the pundits or even Alun Wyn I don't know.
Whether he would have still told Patchell to kick for touch well that's a question only he can answer. All I know is that going in 12-6 at half time would have been better than 12-3. If he had turned down a kick from about 38 metres with only 7 minutes remaining of the first half, in such a tight scoring game, then he shouldn't be captain. If Patchell didn't want it then he should have given it to Anscombe. Also 12-6 in the last 10 minutes would have meant only a converted try would have separated both sides.


Mon Feb 12, 2018 3:37 pm
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Post Re: The real turning point in the game that the pundits missed!
garrish99 wrote:
Everybody is so focussed on the disallowed try that they have overseen a glaring mistake by the referee. First what did we lose by not having the try given i.e 5-7 points as opposed to the 3 points we had by the penalty. So either 12-7, 12-5 or 12-3.
The score was 12-3 so fast forward to the 32 minute fracas in midfield when Garces blows for an infringement in midfield goalside of the 10metre line. Handbags out lads and biff baff 2 minutes later the ref has given his warning and then signals the kick from the wrong spot.
A kick more centrally placed becomes one from 38 to 35 metres out to a kick from 47-43 metres out with a sharper angle. How this was not picked up by the pundits or even Alun Wyn I don't know.
Whether he would have still told Patchell to kick for touch well that's a question only he can answer. All I know is that going in 12-6 at half time would have been better than 12-3. If he had turned down a kick from about 38 metres with only 7 minutes remaining of the first half, in such a tight scoring game, then he shouldn't be captain. If Patchell didn't want it then he should have given it to Anscombe. Also 12-6 in the last 10 minutes would have meant only a converted try would have separated both sides.


Sorry but a single penalty being in the wrong position at the 30 min mark cannot be considered a turning point, especially in such a tight game. England likewise had penalties that went unnoticed (Welsh players lying on the wrong side of the ball numerous times in kickable range) and England got away with offside more than once. I don't think you can single out that event as significant enough. We may have dominated the first 20 but it's not like we weren't in it for the remaining 60. Hell for all we know having Wales within a converted score could have had the opposite effect of focusing England leading to a bigger score, you just can't predict such things.

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Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:37 pm
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Post Re: The real turning point in the game that the pundits missed!
You misunderstand the point.The referee did give a penalty but because he had forgotten where he had first given it due to the players fighting he turned it into a much more difficult kick. Thus Alyn Wyn chose to kick for touch. If Wales had been awarded that try the score would have been 12-5 or 12-7 going in to half time. If they had scored from the penalty on 32 minutes it would have been +1 or -1 difference. As the match was so close in terms of points difference and scoring chances it was a crucial and stupid mistake by the referee. If a free kick had been awarded in football on the edge of the penalty box and centrally to the goal and then the ref picked up the ball took 2 steps to the right and 5 to 7 steps back what do you think a football manager would say?


Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:28 am
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Post Re: The real turning point in the game that the pundits missed!
garrish99 wrote:
You misunderstand the point.The referee did give a penalty but because he had forgotten where he had first given it due to the players fighting he turned it into a much more difficult kick. Thus Alyn Wyn chose to kick for touch. If Wales had been awarded that try the score would have been 12-5 or 12-7 going in to half time. If they had scored from the penalty on 32 minutes it would have been +1 or -1 difference. As the match was so close in terms of points difference and scoring chances it was a crucial and stupid mistake by the referee. If a free kick had been awarded in football on the edge of the penalty box and centrally to the goal and then the ref picked up the ball took 2 steps to the right and 5 to 7 steps back what do you think a football manager would say?


Again there are a lot of ifs in that sentence. Ifs and buts are ok towards the end of the game where there is realistically less time for something drastically different to happen but when you are talking about the 30th minute, speculating how the rest of the match would have panned out is a pointless exercise. As I said, how do you know that Wales getting a beneficial score wouldn't have had the opposite effect and caused England to push harder? We just can't know. The ref made mistakes both ways and Wales got away with penalty infringements in kickable range which would have negated the penalty you just added so there really isn't anything in it. All this on the assumption that the easier kick would have been made anyway.

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Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:54 am
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Post Re: The real turning point in the game that the pundits missed!
garrish99 wrote:
You misunderstand the point.The referee did give a penalty but because he had forgotten where he had first given it due to the players fighting he turned it into a much more difficult kick. Thus Alyn Wyn chose to kick for touch. If Wales had been awarded that try the score would have been 12-5 or 12-7 going in to half time. If they had scored from the penalty on 32 minutes it would have been +1 or -1 difference. As the match was so close in terms of points difference and scoring chances it was a crucial and stupid mistake by the referee. If a free kick had been awarded in football on the edge of the penalty box and centrally to the goal and then the ref picked up the ball took 2 steps to the right and 5 to 7 steps back what do you think a football manager would say?

I think he would say thanks ref as the ref might have made it easier to score in the example you give, as regards the rugby fair point.

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Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:07 am
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