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Wales or England: Who can take more from the game? 
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Post Re: Wales or England: Who can take more from the game?
buglet wrote:
trampie wrote:
It proved to me that Wales are better than England, first XV v first XV, Wales missing top British Lions like Liam Williams, Jonathan Davies, Toby Faletau and Sam Warburton as well as top internationals like Dan Biggar and Rhys Webb.


Not sure that is anything like proven!

You are not me.

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Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:38 pm
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Post Re: Wales or England: Who can take more from the game?
trampie wrote:
buglet wrote:
trampie wrote:
It proved to me that Wales are better than England, first XV v first XV, Wales missing top British Lions like Liam Williams, Jonathan Davies, Toby Faletau and Sam Warburton as well as top internationals like Dan Biggar and Rhys Webb.


Not sure that is anything like proven!

You are not me.


But to be proven in any way there needs to be empirical evidence, not just a priori arguments. It is subjective; anything proven is objective.

You may be right, but there is no evidence at all that is in any way clinching or convincing.

Still, we will be strengthened when those players return.


Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:51 pm
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Post Re: Wales or England: Who can take more from the game?
buglet wrote:
trampie wrote:
buglet wrote:
trampie wrote:
It proved to me that Wales are better than England, first XV v first XV, Wales missing top British Lions like Liam Williams, Jonathan Davies, Toby Faletau and Sam Warburton as well as top internationals like Dan Biggar and Rhys Webb.


Not sure that is anything like proven!

You are not me.


But to be proven in any way there needs to be empirical evidence, not just a priori arguments. It is subjective; anything proven is objective.

You may be right, but there is no evidence at all that is in any way clinching or convincing.

Still, we will be strengthened when those players return.

I'm the all time leader of the scumv superbru hall of fame and that is good enough for me.

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Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:54 pm
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Post Re: Wales or England: Who can take more from the game?
England they won. :D

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Mon Feb 12, 2018 6:19 pm
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Post Re: Wales or England: Who can take more from the game?
We did. A few months a lot of us thought we were miles behind England. No we are not. We had far more first choice players out than they did including and crucially two world class goalkickers. If England had lost both Farrell and Ford to injury it would have had an impact.
Halfpenny would have kicked those first half penalties. He may well have been far better positioned to stop that first try. Either way to lose both Biggar and Halfpenny for this game was not only incredibly rare but very unlucky.

England are a good side but going forward we are more than capable of beating them.


Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:38 pm
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Post Re: Wales or England: Who can take more from the game?
Eddie Jones coming down to the pitch towards the last twenty said it all to me. England were on the ropes and they needed support from the coach. When have any of the senior Welsh coaching staff ever done that? Never is the answer. What does this say about England? England are a bit like a colouring in book, take away the outlines of the colouring in and they struggle. That is the weakness of England. Prescriptive play over intuitive play, he has to coach that out of them. They struggle with that, they always have but the big pack lets them get away with it, that is English rugby in a nutshell. Big pack, big set piece, driving lineout, short yards, over the gainline, be patient, give it to the backs after the power play in the forwards if needed. Rely on the kicking game to get you downfield to do all of that. I mean, fair play and play to your strengths but there has to more. The Kiwis will stuff you if you play like that.

Us. So many good things. So much variety and balance in our play between phases of play. Particularly second half when we started offloading when the weather stopped. A novice 10 who stood up at this level and another one who came on and took on England on the gain line and challenged them, who bought the centres into the game and made them think. Our pack were awesome throughout and we even had a scrum penalty. I loved that we challenged their lineout so many times, made them think again...And all of this without the usual suspects playing. What's not to be encouraged by with a supposed 10 front line players out at England HQ. I am so looking forward to Ireland away next game. The team talk has already been said.

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Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:30 pm
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Post Re: Wales or England: Who can take more from the game?
Didn't that guy who lived near the 'Poxy islands' used to run the touchline in his shorts? :D

Ok, it was all the time, not just when he had a cob on though

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Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:35 pm
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Post Re: Wales or England: Who can take more from the game?
simondavis wrote:
Eddie Jones coming down to the pitch towards the last twenty said it all to me. England were on the ropes and they needed support from the coach. When have any of the senior Welsh coaching staff ever done that? Never is the answer. What does this say about England? England are a bit like a colouring in book, take away the outlines of the colouring in and they struggle. That is the weakness of England. Prescriptive play over intuitive play, he has to coach that out of them. They struggle with that, they always have but the big pack lets them get away with it, that is English rugby in a nutshell. Big pack, big set piece, driving lineout, short yards, over the gainline, be patient, give it to the backs after the power play in the forwards if needed. Rely on the kicking game to get you downfield to do all of that. I mean, fair play and play to your strengths but there has to more. The Kiwis will stuff you if you play like that.

Us. So many good things. So much variety and balance in our play between phases of play. Particularly second half when we started offloading when the weather stopped. A novice 10 who stood up at this level and another one who came on and took on England on the gain line and challenged them, who bought the centres into the game and made them think. Our pack were awesome throughout and we even had a scrum penalty. I loved that we challenged their lineout so many times, made them think again...And all of this without the usual suspects playing. What's not to be encouraged by with a supposed 10 front line players out at England HQ. I am so looking forward to Ireland away next game. The team talk has already been said.


But they still won. Do what it takes. If coming to the pitch helps, good. I think Wales got better when Jenkins came on with the water. He said something to some of the players and we improved. He presumably had something from Gatland. Horses for courses and both approaches seemed to improve the teams.


Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:37 pm
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Post Re: Wales or England: Who can take more from the game?
Yes they won, but the question was who can take more from the game.....

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Mon Feb 12, 2018 10:53 pm
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Post Re: Wales or England: Who can take more from the game?
Simon, the man who took more from the game than anyone was the TMO.

The next candidate - England's coach. He even made snide remarks after the game.

The team who took most from the game? That's a toss up between us and them.

England took the points but clearly need to change their captain and find another.

Wales need another leader or two - that need will be met when senior players return.

We were clearly close to winning but a great tackle and some stalwart defence saw England home in the crunch.


Mon Feb 12, 2018 11:05 pm
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Post Re: Wales or England: Who can take more from the game?
Over the last 5 days Eddie Jones has proven himself to be a complete nunbarn.


Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:25 am
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Post Re: Wales or England: Who can take more from the game?
tyleri82 wrote:
Over the last 5 days Eddie Jones has proven himself to be a complete nunbarn.


Mr Eddie Jones need to be reminded that Australia wouldn't have him back as a gift should his current job disappear.

Even the crims won't have him back for 2019.


Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:59 am
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Post Re: Wales or England: Who can take more from the game?
Jones is not my cup of tea, he has no class but he is a good fit for England. ;)

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Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:16 am
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Post Re: Wales or England: Who can take more from the game?
If England had been without their regular midfield I think they would be very happy to have controlled events and got the win. I am not so sure they will be too happy that the shape of the team was largely the tried and tested one and our rag tag army ran them to the line, literally.

The disruption we have suffered is severe. However, just for once it has meant that fresh faces have come in and showed how well they can perform.

Without doubt, we showed some inexperience on Saturday. Patchell was trying too hard, our back 3 got caught out of position for example. These can be put right.

So, on to next year, I would say we have the potential to rise above England.


Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:50 am
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Post Re: Wales or England: Who can take more from the game?
Yip :thumbright:

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Tue Feb 13, 2018 10:00 am
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