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Wales or England: Who can take more from the game? 
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Post Wales or England: Who can take more from the game?
They go into the game minus their first choice 8 and 9 with a top class bench, we go into the game minus 4 first choices in the pack and 6 in the backs and with a bench that has been described as weak in the National press; we lose by 6 points but play the more fluent rugby. Now I thought that England played very well for the first half an hour, very English they were, then they lost their way a bit and towards the end it was the team in red that was in the ascendancy. I am so encouraged by the performance of our boys, I thought that they were brilliant even though we lost. I've thought all along that this 6 Nations is about development because of all of the injuries we have. Gatland and co have thought otherwise and must take huge credit to get the team playing with freedom and confidence and belief. We are getting that strength in depth, Cory Hill for example is growing with each game. Shingler is on fire, Navidi too. What is so great is that there are no guarantees of injured players getting back into the side.

England on the other hand, they missed their big ball carrying number 8's to get their game going. Courtney Lawes tried but he ain't a 6, Isn't a Robshaw strength either. The other Vunipola was the only one in the pack. They looked predictable in the backs, dangerous off of set plays but over coached almost. Eddie Jones came down to the touchline, he was a worried man second half, they were losing their way, he won't be a happy coach.

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Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:51 pm
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Post Re: Wales or England: Who can take more from the game?
The big picture is that both teams have very good defences.

On development Wales have successfully introduced a lot of new players who did pretty well but not enough.
England were a very familiar team except for Underhill and Simmonds. They are good but missing the elusive extra.

Wales did not have an attacking threat for much of the game. England looked to be about to systematically take
Wales apart but did not take the points.

So England got the points that matter for this competition, but Wales should take heart. There is nothing between the two teams

Both teams need to change to get better and this will be harder for England


Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:27 pm
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Post Re: Wales or England: Who can take more from the game?
I’m not really into claiming moral victories... so england

The loss has been taken quite positively but I’m quite hacked off. Although we have players to come in... will they inprove the side over and above what England have - probably not

Centres are absolute rubbish and hopefully Watkin and Morgan will get some game time and not be permanently injured. Even then I’m grasping at straws


Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:38 pm
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Post Re: Wales or England: Who can take more from the game?
England because of the win. Wales can and i believe will beat Ireland. England could lose at murrayfield. Its still wide open England and Ireland will lose. It will probably go down to PD.


Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:40 pm
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Post Re: Wales or England: Who can take more from the game?
AverageBBCjournalist wrote:
I’m not really into claiming moral victories... so england

The loss has been taken quite positively but I’m quite hacked off. Although we have players to come in... will they inprove the side over and above what England have - probably not

Centres are absolute rubbish and hopefully Watkin and Morgan will get some game time and not be permanently injured. Even then I’m grasping at straws


Not just moral victories. In cold facts, we got a bonus point they did not. It could come to that at the end of the season as it equals a 2 pointer.
I would rather have had the win though

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Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:41 pm
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Post Re: Wales or England: Who can take more from the game?
I'd say both sides have something to take. England are beginning to get some good attacking structures in with Ford and Farrell that were missing last year. Watson is looking incredible and I think having our injured players will add more to our team than Wales injured players will add to them. With Billy V or Hughes back we get a basher at 8 that we have relied on for go forward but so far been lacking. That will allow the likes of Simmonds to play 7. We also have Daly back on the left wing who has a far more rounded game than May. With Sinckler back we also have a key finisher and of course with Youngs back we will again have Care to up the tempo in the last 20, something Wigglesworth utterly failed to do and will always fail to do.

Wales have a new game plan and through injuries ended up choosing the players suitable for it. England have a game plan and through injuries have been forced to move away from it. I think again this game is just reinforcing that never say die attitude that was lacking in the lead up to the last WC. We are currently not a very glamorous team but it's beginning to feel like it's almost there with just 1 or 2 pieces not quite slotting into place yet.

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Sun Feb 11, 2018 10:46 pm
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Post Re: Wales or England: Who can take more from the game?
Troron wrote:
I'd say both sides have something to take. England are beginning to get some good attacking structures in with Ford and Farrell that were missing last year. Watson is looking incredible and I think having our injured players will add more to our team than Wales injured players will add to them. With Billy V or Hughes back we get a basher at 8 that we have relied on for go forward but so far been lacking. That will allow the likes of Simmonds to play 7. We also have Daly back on the left wing who has a far more rounded game than May. With Sinckler back we also have a key finisher and of course with Youngs back we will again have Care to up the tempo in the last 20, something Wigglesworth utterly failed to do and will always fail to do.

Wales have a new game plan and through injuries ended up choosing the players suitable for it. England have a game plan and through injuries have been forced to move away from it. I think again this game is just reinforcing that never say die attitude that was lacking in the lead up to the last WC. We are currently not a very glamorous team but it's beginning to feel like it's almost there with just 1 or 2 pieces not quite slotting into place yet.



But will having the boshers back change the game play? You seem to be doing fine running ball in through gaps, moving back to truck style will not really gain anything, just the same result with more effort and worn out players.

England have usually played the heavy game, and it has worked. The set up there now seems more mobile and light weight but is getting the same results for less player damage and fatigue.

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Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:34 pm
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Post Re: Wales or England: Who can take more from the game?
soap wrote:
But will having the boshers back change the game play? You seem to be doing fine running ball in through gaps, moving back to truck style will not really gain anything, just the same result with more effort and worn out players.

England have usually played the heavy game, and it has worked. The set up there now seems more mobile and light weight but is getting the same results for less player damage and fatigue.


No it won't change the game, it will allow us to execute our current game plan better as it relies on winning collisions. Someone like Billy attracts defenders and with our great use of decoy runners, he would be much more effective. As I said we have a game plan but are not currently executing it as a large part of it relies on a big, physical 8. We are doing the other aspects of the game plan ok but having a big 8 again tying up 2 defenders closer to the ruck and set piece should free up even more space.

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Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:40 pm
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Post Re: Wales or England: Who can take more from the game?
Troron wrote:
soap wrote:
But will having the boshers back change the game play? You seem to be doing fine running ball in through gaps, moving back to truck style will not really gain anything, just the same result with more effort and worn out players.

England have usually played the heavy game, and it has worked. The set up there now seems more mobile and light weight but is getting the same results for less player damage and fatigue.


No it won't change the game, it will allow us to execute our current game plan better as it relies on winning collisions. Someone like Billy attracts defenders and with our great use of decoy runners, he would be much more effective. As I said we have a game plan but are not currently executing it as a large part of it relies on a big, physical 8. We are doing the other aspects of the game plan ok but having a big 8 again tying up 2 defenders closer to the ruck and set piece should free up even more space.



That is assuming the ball will get out of the centre lane. It used to be a big boys outing and if the can not think of anything, pass it to someone with 2 numbers rather than throw it away.

I don't know what Golum will make of it, he may start off with the best intentions, then notice the forwards game is more reliable and get sucked it. I assume he wants wins more than accolades so will find it hard not to take the easy route.

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Sun Feb 11, 2018 11:52 pm
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Post Re: Wales or England: Who can take more from the game?
soap wrote:
That is assuming the ball will get out of the centre lane. It used to be a big boys outing and if the can not think of anything, pass it to someone with 2 numbers rather than throw it away.

I don't know what Golum will make of it, he may start off with the best intentions, then notice the forwards game is more reliable and get sucked it. I assume he wants wins more than accolades so will find it hard not to take the easy route.


England have clear set piece moves off the lineout and scrum and these for the most part would have been around having a big 8 carrying off the back or being used as a decoy runner. Also Vunipola isn't as 1 dimensional as some like to portray him, he's not like Tuilagi. Jones would not stick with a Ford-Farrell axis only to then allow one forward to kill all attacking ball by not utilising them. We have a game plan and are making it work without a big 8 but I'm pretty sure that Jones wants a big 8 again.

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Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:04 am
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Post Re: Wales or England: Who can take more from the game?
Actually I think Ireland will take most out of this game !


Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:08 am
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Post Re: Wales or England: Who can take more from the game?
I would think that England can take more from this game. The gap between England and Wales isn't that big and Wales can tale something that they came close. But England won, and that is what counts.


Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:04 am
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Post Re: Wales or England: Who can take more from the game?
Cymru am byth wrote:
I would think that England can take more from this game. The gap between England and Wales isn't that big and Wales can tale something that they came close. But England won, and that is what counts.


The two England kickers were better than our kickers when they had the ball and that first try was tremendous.

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Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:06 am
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Post Re: Wales or England: Who can take more from the game?
It proved to me that Wales are better than England, first XV v first XV, Wales missing top British Lions like Liam Williams, Jonathan Davies, Toby Faletau and Sam Warburton as well as top internationals like Dan Biggar and Rhys Webb.

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Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:33 pm
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Post Re: Wales or England: Who can take more from the game?
trampie wrote:
It proved to me that Wales are better than England, first XV v first XV, Wales missing top British Lions like Liam Williams, Jonathan Davies, Toby Faletau and Sam Warburton as well as top internationals like Dan Biggar and Rhys Webb.


Not sure that is anything like proven!


Mon Feb 12, 2018 12:36 pm
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