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Should promotion and relegation be introduced to the 6N? 
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Post Re: Should promotion and relegation be introduced to the 6N?
Troron wrote:
Personally I'd like to see the following format:

Increase to 8 nations split into 2 leagues. Home and away game in each league (so 6 total, 1 more than currently). Show a League A and League B game back to back on Saturday and Sunday so we get 4 games a weekend rather than 3. This should help League B get equal exposure. Promotion and relegation between the leagues done every 4 years based on the aggregate results over the those 4 years, so a side only goes up or down based on repeatedly good or bad performances rather than 1 good or bad year.

League A - England, Ireland, Wales, Scotland
League B - France, Italy, Romania, Georgia

Hopefully should allow fewer thrashings. Doubt it will be adopted but it would be my preference.


You cannot be serious about France in the B league...I would rate them better than Scotland.

I like this idea ... the B team should play the same day before the A team.

C league? Spain. Russia. Portugal. LLanelli?


Wed Feb 14, 2018 9:20 am
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Post Re: Should promotion and relegation be introduced to the 6N?
Of course there should be but the chance of it happening is right up there with me becoming a ballet dancer.
The game is very much a closed shop at the moment.
Italy got the nod on the back of some decent results but more importantly a nice trip to Rome every other year. Can you see the blazers voting to lose the Paris trip or woe betide one of the established nations dropping down for some grim Eastern European non jolly.
For rugby to progress and extend its reach a system based on advancement by merit is vital but the unions, broadcasters and sponsors like the current set up and it works splendidly for them.
It will take a very brave committee to sink the current arrangement and I don't see any enthusiasm to release that particular torpedo.


Wed Feb 14, 2018 10:31 am
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Post Re: Should promotion and relegation be introduced to the 6N?
Ffs the 6 nations is what finances most of the top tier of NH rugby , and how many of you want to fix what's not broken , get a grip on reality .

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Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:54 am
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Post Re: Should promotion and relegation be introduced to the 6N?
majorblue wrote:
Of course there should be but the chance of it happening is right up there with me becoming a ballet dancer.
The game is very much a closed shop at the moment.
Italy got the nod on the back of some decent results but more importantly a nice trip to Rome every other year. Can you see the blazers voting to lose the Paris trip or woe betide one of the established nations dropping down for some grim Eastern European non jolly.
For rugby to progress and extend its reach a system based on advancement by merit is vital but the unions, broadcasters and sponsors like the current set up and it works splendidly for them.
It will take a very brave committee to sink the current arrangement and I don't see any enthusiasm to release that particular torpedo.



:) So true

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Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:20 pm
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Post Re: Should promotion and relegation be introduced to the 6N?
Its a bit like the Premiership, there's been a working committee set up to look at it.

The committee is "supposed to" have the power to explore and implement the changes needed to make it an effective link between semi-pro and professional rugby, which it clearly is not.

They already know that the maximum number of teams is 10 (possibly eight) They hope to get it down from 16 to 12, but in all probability it will come down to 14. Why ? because of there are free lunches and a bit of swaggering available for the dinosaurs in Premiership rugby and they will fight tooth and nail to keep it.

Announcement to be made in March, implemented at the end of next season.

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Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:31 pm
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Post Re: Should promotion and relegation be introduced to the 6N?
jimcardiff wrote:
Ffs the 6 nations is what finances most of the top tier of NH rugby , and how many of you want to fix what's not broken , get a grip on reality .



Hear hear.

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Thu Feb 15, 2018 9:37 am
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Post Re: Should promotion and relegation be introduced to the 6N?
Having said what I said, I do think that Italy is unfairly treated with a double standard at times. When they actually beat another Tier One side, it is usually assumed that it is because the opposition playing badly rather than Italy playing well - this was especially on display in the media when they beat SA in 2016. (By contrast, when Ireland beat the All Blacks two weeks earlier for the first time, the consensus was that it was more due to Ireland playing well).


Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:03 pm
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Post Re: Should promotion and relegation be introduced to the 6N?
Blackheart wrote:
You cannot be serious about France in the B league...I would rate them better than Scotland.

I like this idea ... the B team should play the same day before the A team.

C league? Spain. Russia. Portugal. LLanelli?


Who went into B of France and Scotland was just a 50/50 choice and I went for France to go down as I feel they are in decline whilst Scotland are on the up. I wouldn't argue against it being Scotland going down either though.

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Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:24 pm
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Post Re: Should promotion and relegation be introduced to the 6N?
On a vaguely related note, Spain beat Romania over the weekend. Having beaten Russia earlier in the competition they are now odds-on to qualify directly for the World cup, needing only to beat the two weaker teams in the competition, Germany and Belgium. If they do so, it will guarantee that one of Romania, Canada or Samoa misses out - three teams that have qualified for every single World Cup in the past.


Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:51 pm
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Post Re: Should promotion and relegation be introduced to the 6N?
Figaro wrote:
On a vaguely related note, Spain beat Romania over the weekend. Having beaten Russia earlier in the competition they are now odds-on to qualify directly for the World cup, needing only to beat the two weaker teams in the competition, Germany and Belgium. If they do so, it will guarantee that one of Romania, Canada or Samoa misses out - three teams that have qualified for every single World Cup in the past.


Samoa didn't make the inaugural World Cup in 1987. But yes. And that'll mean three Spanish-speaking countries in the World Cup! Que bueno! :occasion5: :thefinger:


Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:02 pm
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Post Re: Should promotion and relegation be introduced to the 6N?
As an outsider but a watcher of the 6N I don't really see a need for promotion/relegation. It's a great competition that has one team letting it down, that happens. Maybe rugby will grow in Italy, maybe it won't - but the potential relegation of a top team that has a bad year could be very bad for the competition as a whole.

And promotion/relegation playoff matches are rubbish btw. Winning just one game to stay up while the lower team have to win a competition+1 game to rise is not a good way to do it. We tried it here in NZ for years - poor results and unhappy fans.

We don't see a lot of the second tier euro national teams play on TV here - is the tournament televised widely? That said I wish the PNC was televised more too.

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Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:18 pm
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Post Re: Should promotion and relegation be introduced to the 6N?
Four More Years wrote:
As an outsider but a watcher of the 6N I don't really see a need for promotion/relegation. It's a great competition that has one team letting it down, that happens. Maybe rugby will grow in Italy, maybe it won't - but the potential relegation of a top team that has a bad year could be very bad for the competition as a whole.

And promotion/relegation playoff matches are rubbish btw. Winning just one game to stay up while the lower team have to win a competition+1 game to rise is not a good way to do it. We tried it here in NZ for years - poor results and unhappy fans.

We don't see a lot of the second tier euro national teams play on TV here - is the tournament televised widely? That said I wish the PNC was televised more too.


I've personally never seen footage, let alone a game of second tier european international game. I must say, I haven't looked for it and it might be on sky, but it isn't big.


Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:21 pm
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Post Re: Should promotion and relegation be introduced to the 6N?
There must be rugby tragics (like me) who will watch any game that's on.

But yeah I look forward to the 6N - I don't think it needs changing. Learn from Super Rugby's mistakes - don't screw with your competition that is working. No change just for the sake of change.

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Tue Feb 20, 2018 11:39 pm
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Post Re: Should promotion and relegation be introduced to the 6N?
Four More Years wrote:
There must be rugby tragics (like me) who will watch any game that's on.

But yeah I look forward to the 6N - I don't think it needs changing. Learn from Super Rugby's mistakes - don't screw with your competition that is working. No change just for the sake of change.


And that, in essence, is what this perennial argument is really all about? How can you have, or rather, hope to have, a system of promotion/relegation, in what is now a 5 game tournament? I haven't looked at any statistics too closely but, I'm willing to bet, that any team (apart from Italy perhaps?) that has 'won' a wooden spoon since the 5 became the 6 Nations, is also a team that has played 3 away games in the competition that year?
I know that we won a GS (2005 I think?) when we won our 3 away games but, that's why a GS (especially with bonus points now?) is still a pretty special achievement? If anyone really thinks that promotion/relegation is any kind of a way forward for the 6N, then step one in order to make it completely equal, is to play home and away games, thereby eliminating the 3 away games as being a factor in relegation? If you agree with that kind of expansion, then the next logical step could well be promotion/relegation? Can't put the cart before the horse though!! (and, does anyone really see a need or even the possibility of it becoming a minimum 10 game tournament?)

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Wed Feb 21, 2018 1:11 am
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Post Re: Should promotion and relegation be introduced to the 6N?
Otto wrote:
Four More Years wrote:
There must be rugby tragics (like me) who will watch any game that's on.

But yeah I look forward to the 6N - I don't think it needs changing. Learn from Super Rugby's mistakes - don't screw with your competition that is working. No change just for the sake of change.


And that, in essence, is what this perennial argument is really all about? How can you have, or rather, hope to have, a system of promotion/relegation, in what is now a 5 game tournament? I haven't looked at any statistics too closely but, I'm willing to bet, that any team (apart from Italy perhaps?) that has 'won' a wooden spoon since the 5 became the 6 Nations, is also a team that has played 3 away games in the competition that year?
I know that we won a GS (2005 I think?) when we won our 3 away games but, that's why a GS (especially with bonus points now?) is still a pretty special achievement? If anyone really thinks that promotion/relegation is any kind of a way forward for the 6N, then step one in order to make it completely equal, is to play home and away games, thereby eliminating the 3 away games as being a factor in relegation? If you agree with that kind of expansion, then the next logical step could well be promotion/relegation? Can't put the cart before the horse though!! (and, does anyone really see a need or even the possibility of it becoming a minimum 10 game tournament?)


Exactly, Otto.

To make the best tournament for the fans a home and away marathon means major changes have to be made to other money-spinners.

It's all been chewed on before.


Wed Feb 21, 2018 5:32 am
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