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Should promotion and relegation be introduced to the 6N? 
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Post Re: Should promotion and relegation be introduced to the 6N?
It would certainly be a motivator and who knows, it may result in an overall improvement.

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Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:22 pm
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Post Re: Should promotion and relegation be introduced to the 6N?
I think a Northern hemisphere championship which includes Canada and USA as well as Georgia, Romania and Russia with a Western European team like Spain is the way to go, they can compete initially in Div2 and try to get into the six nations at the expense of one of the six nations teams (if they could beat the bottom six nations team in a play off).

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Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:52 pm
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Post Re: Should promotion and relegation be introduced to the 6N?
spinbreath wrote:
I can see both sides of the argument on this one.
From a pure rugby point of view, then yes. Italy offer very little, and a little healthy competition from (say) Georgia couldn't hurt.
On the flip side, yes it is about money - money that is vital to the wellbeing of the sport in this country. Wales has a seat at one of the premier sporting competitions in the world, and I'm not sure we should risk that.



Money is vital to the well being of a small proportion involved in the sport, regards those people the payment of money is not always beneficial to the sport itself. If Wales come last in the 6 Nations and win a playoff game then that can only be due to the inappropriate use of resources, particularly money. Welsh rugby is totally corrupted by the self-interest of the various groups and organisation and the agenda of the key personnel within those organisations. It would safer to have the possibility of relegation in place so that the arrogance of those involved is tempered by the cliff edge.

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Tue Feb 13, 2018 3:59 pm
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Post Re: Should promotion and relegation be introduced to the 6N?
spinbreath wrote:
I can see both sides of the argument on this one.
From a pure rugby point of view, then yes. Italy offer very little, and a little healthy competition from (say) Georgia couldn't hurt.
On the flip side, yes it is about money - money that is vital to the wellbeing of the sport in this country. Wales has a seat at one of the premier sporting competitions in the world, and I'm not sure we should risk that.



Money is vital to the well being of a small proportion involved in the sport, regards those people the payment of money is not always beneficial to the sport itself. If Wales come last in the 6 Nations and win a playoff game then that can only be due to the inappropriate use of resources, particularly money. Welsh rugby is totally corrupted by the self-interest of the various groups and organisation and the agenda of the key personnel within those organisations. It would safer to have the possibility of relegation in place so that the arrogance of those involved is tempered by the cliff edge.

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“None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free.”
"The price of anything is the amount of life you exchange for


Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:00 pm
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Post Re: Should promotion and relegation be introduced to the 6N?
Hopefully the teams in Div2 would get up to speed and be very competitive and there would be no need for play offs in time just straight promotion and relegation.

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Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:05 pm
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Post Re: Should promotion and relegation be introduced to the 6N?
Blindside wrote:
spinbreath wrote:
I can see both sides of the argument on this one.
From a pure rugby point of view, then yes. Italy offer very little, and a little healthy competition from (say) Georgia couldn't hurt.
On the flip side, yes it is about money - money that is vital to the wellbeing of the sport in this country. Wales has a seat at one of the premier sporting competitions in the world, and I'm not sure we should risk that.



Money is vital to the well being of a small proportion involved in the sport, regards those people the payment of money is not always beneficial to the sport itself. If Wales come last in the 6 Nations and win a playoff game then that can only be due to the inappropriate use of resources, particularly money. Welsh rugby is totally corrupted by the self-interest of the various groups and organisation and the agenda of the key personnel within those organisations. It would safer to have the possibility of relegation in place so that the arrogance of those involved is tempered by the cliff edge.



Finance is important to the MAINTENANÇE of the current system!
BS, I hear and somewhat sympathise with what you say but to bring it back to a sociopolitical aspect which I suspect that you align to too ...and I can identify with ...

It aint solvable easily ..it has the same problems and trauma to rectify... capitalist throttle hold on w/wide economic circumstance can't be overcome easily and even revolution is untennable....

Shut up Tel ...this extreme comparison is silly ...

It's not , imo it is very similar to the pro rugby circumstance and difficulty to correct it for the common good.

The powers that be are distinctly against radical change and geared to ulterior motives.

My point is that we have to realise that and not just share imaginary'magic wands.

Getting an even playing field has only a idealistic opportunity imo

end of rant, apologies.

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Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:16 pm
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Post Re: Should promotion and relegation be introduced to the 6N?
trampie wrote:
I think a Northern hemisphere championship which includes Canada and USA as well as Georgia, Romania and Russia with a Western European team like Spain is the way to go, they can compete initially in Div2 and try to get into the six nations at the expense of one of the six nations teams (if they could beat the bottom six nations team in a play off).


The USA and Canada compete in the Americas Rugby Championship (Americas Six Nations) alongside Uruguay, Brazil, Chile and Argentina (a XV at the moment but could some day be the full side) so it's not clear why they would want to come and play in a European second dvision of similar quality.


Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:20 pm
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Post Re: Should promotion and relegation be introduced to the 6N?
Figaro wrote:
trampie wrote:
I think a Northern hemisphere championship which includes Canada and USA as well as Georgia, Romania and Russia with a Western European team like Spain is the way to go, they can compete initially in Div2 and try to get into the six nations at the expense of one of the six nations teams (if they could beat the bottom six nations team in a play off).


The USA and Canada compete in the Americas Rugby Championship (Americas Six Nations) alongside Uruguay, Brazil, Chile and Argentina (a XV at the moment but could some day be the full side) so it's not clear why they would want to come and play in a European second dvision of similar quality.

They would have the chance of progressing and play tier one nations.

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Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:22 pm
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Post Re: Should promotion and relegation be introduced to the 6N?
trampie wrote:
spinbreath wrote:
I can see both sides of the argument on this one.
From a pure rugby point of view, then yes. Italy offer very little, and a little healthy competition from (say) Georgia couldn't hurt.
On the flip side, yes it is about money - money that is vital to the wellbeing of the sport in this country. Wales has a seat at one of the premier sporting competitions in the world, and I'm not sure we should risk that.

That is the problem and not just for Wales.



I know Italy have been been poor. Thier first game thier like raging bulls but one loss and then thats it.

The one thing they do offer is a good weekend away for the Anglo / Celtic supporters and many enjoy just not only the rugby but the long weekend away, this is why I think having them in the Six Nations is important. By having Georgia or Romania in there instead of Italy, will the same happen to them in temrs of how they finish up in the tournament end, does this offer better weekends away. Ive been to Italy and enjoyed but not sure about Romania or Georgia to be honest. Losing Italy is will be a missing link to keen supporters who like to travel more than we think.


Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:40 pm
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Post Re: Should promotion and relegation be introduced to the 6N?
Blindside wrote:
spinbreath wrote:
I can see both sides of the argument on this one.
From a pure rugby point of view, then yes. Italy offer very little, and a little healthy competition from (say) Georgia couldn't hurt.
On the flip side, yes it is about money - money that is vital to the wellbeing of the sport in this country. Wales has a seat at one of the premier sporting competitions in the world, and I'm not sure we should risk that.



Money is vital to the well being of a small proportion involved in the sport, regards those people the payment of money is not always beneficial to the sport itself. If Wales come last in the 6 Nations and win a playoff game then that can only be due to the inappropriate use of resources, particularly money. Welsh rugby is totally corrupted by the self-interest of the various groups and organisation and the agenda of the key personnel within those organisations. It would safer to have the possibility of relegation in place so that the arrogance of those involved is tempered by the cliff edge.

I agree to an extent. Trouble is, one year of playing in division two may cause irreparable damage. Rugby and the Six Nations is the one area where we as a country have a say in the global environment. Should we not be taking advantage of our situation, rather than risk compromising it for someone else's sake?
The Six Nations is already at risk of erosion from PRL. I don't wish to see it watered down any further, because we will not be the ones to benefit.

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Tue Feb 13, 2018 4:42 pm
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Post Re: Should promotion and relegation be introduced to the 6N?
Tony Panties wrote:
Blindside wrote:
spinbreath wrote:
I can see both sides of the argument on this one.
From a pure rugby point of view, then yes. Italy offer very little, and a little healthy competition from (say) Georgia couldn't hurt.
On the flip side, yes it is about money - money that is vital to the wellbeing of the sport in this country. Wales has a seat at one of the premier sporting competitions in the world, and I'm not sure we should risk that.



Money is vital to the well being of a small proportion involved in the sport, regards those people the payment of money is not always beneficial to the sport itself. If Wales come last in the 6 Nations and win a playoff game then that can only be due to the inappropriate use of resources, particularly money. Welsh rugby is totally corrupted by the self-interest of the various groups and organisation and the agenda of the key personnel within those organisations. It would safer to have the possibility of relegation in place so that the arrogance of those involved is tempered by the cliff edge.



Finance is important to the MAINTENANÇE of the current system!
BS, I hear and somewhat sympathise with what you say but to bring it back to a sociopolitical aspect which I suspect that you align to too ...and I can identify with ...

It aint solvable easily ..it has the same problems and trauma to rectify... capitalist throttle hold on w/wide economic circumstance can't be overcome easily and even revolution is untennable....

Shut up Tel ...this extreme comparison is silly ...

It's not , imo it is very similar to the pro rugby circumstance and difficulty to correct it for the common good.

The powers that be are distinctly against radical change and geared to ulterior motives.

My point is that we have to realise that and not just share imaginary'magic wands.

Getting an even playing field has only a idealistic opportunity imo

end of rant, apologies.




I agree....... ive been to a meeting of the WRU as a club representative which discussed changes to the Premiership, to be announced in March, possible introduction of under 23 competition (which won't happen). It just seems to me that there have been professional people appointed who would like to create change, but the maintenance of the system is desired by those embedded in the system. If Welsh rugby cant adapt then it should face the consequences. Without consequences, it will never adapt as to many people are dug in. They will just change the personnel appointed Josh Lewsy etc

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“None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free.”
"The price of anything is the amount of life you exchange for


Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:00 pm
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Post Re: Should promotion and relegation be introduced to the 6N?
Blindside wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
Blindside wrote:
spinbreath wrote:
I can see both sides of the argument on this one.
From a pure rugby point of view, then yes. Italy offer very little, and a little healthy competition from (say) Georgia couldn't hurt.
On the flip side, yes it is about money - money that is vital to the wellbeing of the sport in this country. Wales has a seat at one of the premier sporting competitions in the world, and I'm not sure we should risk that.



Money is vital to the well being of a small proportion involved in the sport, regards those people the payment of money is not always beneficial to the sport itself. If Wales come last in the 6 Nations and win a playoff game then that can only be due to the inappropriate use of resources, particularly money. Welsh rugby is totally corrupted by the self-interest of the various groups and organisation and the agenda of the key personnel within those organisations. It would safer to have the possibility of relegation in place so that the arrogance of those involved is tempered by the cliff edge.



Finance is important to the MAINTENANÇE of the current system!
BS, I hear and somewhat sympathise with what you say but to bring it back to a sociopolitical aspect which I suspect that you align to too ...and I can identify with ...

It aint solvable easily ..it has the same problems and trauma to rectify... capitalist throttle hold on w/wide economic circumstance can't be overcome easily and even revolution is untennable....

Shut up Tel ...this extreme comparison is silly ...

It's not , imo it is very similar to the pro rugby circumstance and difficulty to correct it for the common good.

The powers that be are distinctly against radical change and geared to ulterior motives.

My point is that we have to realise that and not just share imaginary'magic wands.

Getting an even playing field has only a idealistic opportunity imo

end of rant, apologies.




I agree....... ive been to a meeting of the WRU as a club representative which discussed changes to the Premiership, to be announced in March, possible introduction of under 23 competition (which won't happen). It just seems to me that there have been professional people appointed who would like to create change, but the maintenance of the system is desired by those embedded in the system. If Welsh rugby cant adapt then it should face the consequences. Without consequences, it will never adapt as to many people are dug in. They will just change the personnel appointed Josh Lewsy etc


I think he is referring to the structure of global rugby in general, not just Wales, what with World Rugby, the Six Nations and the Tier One unions all wanting to keep the status quo for their own (mostly short-term) benefit, rather than a more open and long-term vision of genuinely expanding the game around the world.


Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:06 pm
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Post Re: Should promotion and relegation be introduced to the 6N?
The game has been around for a hundred and forty odd years. How much more is it likely to expand?

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Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:13 pm
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Post Re: Should promotion and relegation be introduced to the 6N?
spinbreath wrote:
The game has been around for a hundred and forty odd years. How much more is it likely to expand?


Well, as I said ages ago in another thread, the game has already moved beyond the old Five Nations and SANZAR to include Argentina, Italy, Georgia, Romania, Fiji, Samoa, Tonga and Japan as important nations. Furthermore, the USA, Uruguay, Namibia, Hong Kong, Spain, Germany and Russia are also on the up (professional Russian clubs Enisei and Krasny Yar have even beaten teams from France, England and Wales in the European Challenge Cup). Therefore, to spread rugby at a high level beyond the traditional powers is certainly far from impossible.


Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:23 pm
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Post Re: Should promotion and relegation be introduced to the 6N?
najbritcol wrote:
Blindside wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
Blindside wrote:
spinbreath wrote:
I can see both sides of the argument on this one.
From a pure rugby point of view, then yes. Italy offer very little, and a little healthy competition from (say) Georgia couldn't hurt.
On the flip side, yes it is about money - money that is vital to the wellbeing of the sport in this country. Wales has a seat at one of the premier sporting competitions in the world, and I'm not sure we should risk that.



Money is vital to the well being of a small proportion involved in the sport, regards those people the payment of money is not always beneficial to the sport itself. If Wales come last in the 6 Nations and win a playoff game then that can only be due to the inappropriate use of resources, particularly money. Welsh rugby is totally corrupted by the self-interest of the various groups and organisation and the agenda of the key personnel within those organisations. It would safer to have the possibility of relegation in place so that the arrogance of those involved is tempered by the cliff edge.



Finance is important to the MAINTENANÇE of the current system!
BS, I hear and somewhat sympathise with what you say but to bring it back to a sociopolitical aspect which I suspect that you align to too ...and I can identify with ...

It aint solvable easily ..it has the same problems and trauma to rectify... capitalist throttle hold on w/wide economic circumstance can't be overcome easily and even revolution is untennable....

Shut up Tel ...this extreme comparison is silly ...

It's not , imo it is very similar to the pro rugby circumstance and difficulty to correct it for the common good.

The powers that be are distinctly against radical change and geared to ulterior motives.

My point is that we have to realise that and not just share imaginary'magic wands.

Getting an even playing field has only a idealistic opportunity imo

end of rant, apologies.




I agree....... ive been to a meeting of the WRU as a club representative which discussed changes to the Premiership, to be announced in March, possible introduction of under 23 competition (which won't happen). It just seems to me that there have been professional people appointed who would like to create change, but the maintenance of the system is desired by those embedded in the system. If Welsh rugby cant adapt then it should face the consequences. Without consequences, it will never adapt as to many people are dug in. They will just change the personnel appointed Josh Lewsy etc


I think he is referring to the structure of global rugby in general, not just Wales, what with World Rugby, the Six Nations and the Tier One unions all wanting to keep the status quo for their own (mostly short-term) benefit, rather than a more open and long-term vision of genuinely expanding the game around the world.


BS had quoted Wales and I don't think that in terms of root problem that they are in any way different from others. It is generally symptomatic. The example is current.

There are rare personalities that seem genuinely progressive and I would rate the World Rugby VP Pichot as one of those. Unfortunately Billy B is President and the clique there are largely maintained ... the personalities may change but the Blazer Badge and type remain, Good God they even had Pickering in there one time before he got voted out of the major Executive Committee! Lapasset ex President went on to win France the Olympics venue ... it's a big swim ... ;)

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Tue Feb 13, 2018 5:33 pm
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