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Wales are being left behind in international rugby... 
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Post Wales are being left behind in international rugby...
I can see the writing on the wall here.
Scots and Irish already playing a nice and exciting brand. England way ahead and France recovering.
Wales and Italy? nowhere to be seen. its depressing and worrying me we are not adapting at all. Tired and old hand coaches like McBryde and Howley need to go NOW and get people in for the 2019 world cup; People need to be refreshed and we aren't getting it with Wales.
why is the WRU allowing this to happen?
We are heading for two defeats in coming weeks and a terrible 6 Nations.
You heard it here first...


Sun Nov 19, 2017 11:51 am
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Post Re: Wales are being left behind in international rugby...
I don't think it is a good thing, but I think the reality is that the metric for world rugby is now the World Cup.
Individual test matches, even the Six Nations, are now seen as preparation for "the Big One".


Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:00 pm
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Post Re: Wales are being left behind in international rugby...
Key question always is :

Is the rugby being delivered equal to or greater than the sum of the parts and if the answer is negative then to examine the contributory parameters eg development and coaching etc.


Care should be taken to answer the first question in terms of reasonable assessment of input circumstance in the context of the opposition ie extent of resources, finances and other fundamental issues.

It has to be considered logically and not reflex emotion and scatter gun analysis and proposed solution, difficult with the Welsh temperament ;) .

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Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:18 pm
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Post Re: Wales are being left behind in international rugby...
Tony Panties wrote:
Key question always is :

Is the rugby being delivered equal to or greater than the sum of the parts and if the answer is negative then to examine the contributory parameters eg development and coaching etc.


Care should be taken to answer the first question in terms of reasonable assessment of input circumstance in the context of the opposition ie extent of resources, finances and other fundamental issues.

It has to be considered logically and not reflex emotion and scatter gun analysis and proposed solution, difficult with the Welsh temperament ;) .


I believe that the negative rugby we have been playing for the past 10yrs (maybe longer) has certainly rubbed off on rugby clubs from the bottom to the top.
All coaches need to look at themselves and question their coaching methods.
Ask yourself would Gatland and co have changed their tactics if they hadn't been pressured into doing so.
That the tactics used by the welsh coaches was nullified by the southern hemisphere quite quickly why wasn't a different tactic used in combating the SH.

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Sun Nov 19, 2017 12:52 pm
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Post Re: Wales are being left behind in international rugby...
Dai Yorkshire wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
Key question always is :

Is the rugby being delivered equal to or greater than the sum of the parts and if the answer is negative then to examine the contributory parameters eg development and coaching etc.


Care should be taken to answer the first question in terms of reasonable assessment of input circumstance in the context of the opposition ie extent of resources, finances and other fundamental issues.

It has to be considered logically and not reflex emotion and scatter gun analysis and proposed solution, difficult with the Welsh temperament ;) .


I believe that the negative rugby we have been playing for the past 10yrs (maybe longer) has certainly rubbed off on rugby clubs from the bottom to the top.
All coaches need to look at themselves and question their coaching methods.
Ask yourself would Gatland and co have changed their tactics if they hadn't been pressured into doing so.
That the tactics used by the welsh coaches was nullified by the southern hemisphere quite quickly why wasn't a different tactic used in combating the SH.


I would agree that Wales certainly seem to have been 'behind the curve' (sorry, hate that expression) in terms of adaptation and innovation, whether that is a factor of player capability and development maybe a moot point.

It has been said, can't remember source, excellent Coaches aim for best of breed, great coaches innovate.

Apologies for philosophical like points.

Dai, your point is well made and highlights an issue over a timeframe which in terms could be described as static, uninventive and non strategic ..... basic issues! The length of the timeframe is an indictment.

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Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:14 pm
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Post Re: Wales are being left behind in international rugby...
I know this doesn't fit with the doom and gloom hysteria and yesterdays game was shocking at times (how are anyone supposed to play a high tempo game when the ref takes so long in getting a scrum formed?) but this is the 3rd game on the trot where we have put out a 2nd/3rd team out against a tier 2 side and won. We all know we don't have strength in depth like the English or NZers so why do we expect anything different? FFS some people really should get a grip

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Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:25 pm
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Post Re: Wales are being left behind in international rugby...
Big And Dull wrote:
I know this doesn't fit with the doom and gloom hysteria and yesterdays game was shocking at times (how are anyone supposed to play a high tempo game when the ref takes so long in getting a scrum formed?) but this is the 3rd game on the trot where we have put out a 2nd/3rd team out against a tier 2 side and won. We all know we don't have strength in depth like the English or NZers so why do we expect anything different? FFS some people really should get a grip


Surely you're not talking about ScumV posters? :D

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Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:29 pm
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Post Re: Wales are being left behind in international rugby...
Big And Dull wrote:
I know this doesn't fit with the doom and gloom hysteria and yesterdays game was shocking at times (how are anyone supposed to play a high tempo game when the ref takes so long in getting a scrum formed?) but this is the 3rd game on the trot where we have put out a 2nd/3rd team out against a tier 2 side and won. We all know we don't have strength in depth like the English or NZers so why do we expect anything different? FFS some people really should get a grip


Hence the Q above .. are we achieving equal or greater than the sum of the parts considering fundamental restrictions etc

So, you would suggest that our performance is equal to or greater than the sum of the parts and that the raw material available is being developed to at least an optimum standard?

0r, are you perhaps just satisfied with underperformance and mediocrity.

I respect your view and you have put a stake on a somewhat inverse perception to that voiced above.

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Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:33 pm
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Post Re: Wales are being left behind in international rugby...
I would also question whether the team put out yesterday was genuinely a second string "B" side or more of a development team.

E.g. If assuming gatlands first choice backrow is moriaty, falatau, warburton then the second choice would be lydiate tipuric and another - possibly an experienced player like shingler, navidi, Jenkins, king could come in

Similarly at lock he could have put Charteris in for his experience

I think what I'm saying is gatland could have picked some experienced players and still called it a second string. What we had yesterday was more of a trial match


Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:36 pm
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Post Re: Wales are being left behind in international rugby...
Not that it is any real consolation for yesterday's drudge, but second-string Ireland struggled past Fiji and one-and-a-half-string Scotland struggled past Samoa and, earlier this year, lost to Fiji. As I said in another thread, only New Zealand and possibly England can expect to thrash tier two teams with even their second-string squads. I'm sure in the World Cup, stronger sides would be put out to face these same teams in order to add on the points.


Sun Nov 19, 2017 1:39 pm
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Post Re: Wales are being left behind in international rugby...
The answers to most of my comments reveal the nature of some Welsh rugby fans...

happy with Glroious defeats and relisihing the jam on offer tomorrow promised by the corrupt regime in the WRU..

believe it if you want boys and girls... :(


Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:34 pm
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Post Re: Wales are being left behind in international rugby...
Stockholm Blue wrote:
I don't think it is a good thing, but I think the reality is that the metric for world rugby is now the World Cup.
Individual test matches, even the Six Nations, are now seen as preparation for "the Big One".



This is another example of the the ability of people to form an alternative reality when the unpalatable one is staring them straight in the face, laughable. What is it based on.

Do sides that win WC suddenly turn up and put a run of games together from no where. Come no where in the 6 Nations and then win the World Cup :D

Every four years lets judge how Welsh rugby progresses, what happens in between is of little consequence, what a load of complete shit.

As Tel points out we are a result of our systems. What we put in we get out..... for a period we bucked the trend but the trend is there for all to see, who are prepared to take the shit out of their eyes.

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Sun Nov 19, 2017 3:57 pm
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Post Re: Wales are being left behind in international rugby...
Blindside wrote:
Stockholm Blue wrote:
I don't think it is a good thing, but I think the reality is that the metric for world rugby is now the World Cup.
Individual test matches, even the Six Nations, are now seen as preparation for "the Big One".



This is another example of the the ability of people to form an alternative reality when the unpalatable one is staring them straight in the face, laughable. What is it based on.

Do sides that win WC suddenly turn up and put a run of games together from no where. Come no where in the 6 Nations and then win the World Cup :D

Every four years lets judge how Welsh rugby progresses, what happens in between is of little consequence, what a load of complete shit.

As Tel points out we are a result of our systems. What we put in we get out..... for a period we bucked the trend but the trend is there for all to see, who are prepared to take the shit out of their eyes.


It is just pointing to what Gatland said before the game ... since there are no World Cup ranking points at stake, for him the point of these games was to see if there are 3 or 4 players that are worth investing in for the next World Cup squad. What I want or don't want is neither here nor there, he is not asking for my opinion.


Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:03 pm
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Post Re: Wales are being left behind in international rugby...
The title of the thread is a pretty broad generalization.

6 months ago, the Scarlets won the Pro 12 playing fast open rugby, and continued to play open attractive rugby, sometimes to their detriment.

How soon we forget..

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Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:24 pm
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Post Re: Wales are being left behind in international rugby...
Stockholm Blue wrote:
Blindside wrote:
Stockholm Blue wrote:
I don't think it is a good thing, but I think the reality is that the metric for world rugby is now the World Cup.
Individual test matches, even the Six Nations, are now seen as preparation for "the Big One".



This is another example of the the ability of people to form an alternative reality when the unpalatable one is staring them straight in the face, laughable. What is it based on.

Do sides that win WC suddenly turn up and put a run of games together from no where. Come no where in the 6 Nations and then win the World Cup :D

Every four years lets judge how Welsh rugby progresses, what happens in between is of little consequence, what a load of complete shit.

As Tel points out we are a result of our systems. What we put in we get out..... for a period we bucked the trend but the trend is there for all to see, who are prepared to take the shit out of their eyes.


It is just pointing to what Gatland said before the game ... since there are no World Cup ranking points at stake, for him the point of these games was to see if there are 3 or 4 players that are worth investing in for the next World Cup squad. What I want or don't want is neither here nor there, he is not asking for my opinion.




It's obvious enough that the basis for this game selection was development, so obvious and so extreme that the excuse was readily available indeed I think the excuse was a factor in selection. The 6 Nations will never be used in this way as it would get you sacked, the best way to prepare to win a World Cup is to win aSix Nations.

You said the WC is now the standard of measurement in your view, or it appears you think it is being used as the standard for measurement. If it is, Wales won't measure up for over a decade at least, even if they take the right path soon. Gatland can't decide how he is measured, although he may want too. He will be judged on the 6 Nations and to a lesser extent the Autmn games.

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Sun Nov 19, 2017 4:34 pm
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