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Wales v NZ Match thread 
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
Thegrimriper wrote:
AverageBBCjournalist wrote:
Thegrimriper wrote:
AverageBBCjournalist wrote:
Thegrimriper wrote:
AverageBBCjournalist wrote:
If wales get a decent side out then hopefully put in a performance.
Orrr FFS wake up and smell the coffee.


Blinking heck - so much assumed in terms of context from the original poster (i.e. me) so people can make an unrelated point
How is it unrelated?


Explain how it's related - sounds like I need to smell the coffee. What from my post do I need to realise/understand?
If Wales get a decent side out, where the fupp from?, Hopefully, a performance, that's the depth of your ambition?


I can clarify

Decent team - hopefully Lee and Williams will be fit, and gatland gets other calls right. By Welsh standards this would limit the amount te of crap we put on the pitch

Get a performance- well we aren't going to win. I work all week and enjpy watching rugby and want to see Wales not humiliated

Lack of ambition - moaning on a website does not signal you are ambitious. Lack of ambition is also your assumption based on not much


Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:12 pm
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
AverageBBCjournalist wrote:
Evan Roberts wrote:
I see walesonline are fawning themselves over Priestland again, turning the simple but good into “genius” or “real class”. This is a script where Biggar is just limited but effective (let’s ignore any evidence of Biggar actually having really good hands who can offload quickly). The idea that Priestland stands flatter is not really true, but it sounds clever. In any case standing really flat is generally a bad idea, the best flyhalfs seem to take the ball quite deep and sometimes the early pass is best. Of course they are just setting Priestland up for another big fall, which is a shame as he is a decent player but in my opinion still a clear second best to Dan.


Ah the bigger priestland thing again, bigger does stand deeper and although his distribution has come on a lot as evidenced by Lions tour he will never be a natural playmaker. But he does have lots of good qualities and certainly don't get the ups and downs you get with priestland. Picking priestland also means gatland will have to go with halfpenny at 15 for the goal kicking. Biggar although less creative is a decent goal kicker and opens up options in the back 3 - but gatland wil still go with halfpenny anyway!

Both good players. Happy for either to play to be honest.

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Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:30 pm
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
For me this is THE test of this weekends AI's. As an Englishman I will be passionately shouting for my boys at HQ, but as a neutral this is the game I am really looking forward to! The ABs are missing a lot of regular starters, and the Scots nearly got the W against them Saturday, couple this with the shenanigans in Cardiff with a much changed side just getting home against Georgia, and it all adds up to what will be a passionate and fiery encounter this weekend!! I cannot wait!


Mon Nov 20, 2017 12:33 pm
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
Dai Yorkshire hit the nail on the head several pages ago, when he said the Welsh team lacked continuity, and that the strongest available team should have been selected against Georgia. A 60 point win against them would have formed a basis for a realistic attack on the All Blacks, even if it had been at the expense of a couple of injuries. As it stands we go into the New Zealand game on the back of a convincing defeat against the Australians, and a lucky win over Georgia; not the best preparation !!!


Mon Nov 20, 2017 1:09 pm
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
Just saw that Sonny Bill Williams has only lost internationals against Australia and South Africa, phenomenal record and can't see that changing this weekend sadly


Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:44 pm
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
Haruki wrote:
Just saw that Sonny Bill Williams has only lost internationals against Australia and South Africa, phenomenal record and can't see that changing this weekend sadly


..and the Lions

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Mon Nov 20, 2017 5:53 pm
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
Four pages already and without either team having announced their players? :D


Mon Nov 20, 2017 6:16 pm
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
najbritcol wrote:
Four pages already and without either team having announced their players? :D

The game only interferes with our comments. :D


Mon Nov 20, 2017 7:05 pm
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
Dai Yorkshire wrote:
loosechange wrote:
This AB team isn’t great, and without the old heads they panic far too much for my liking. If put under the pump they give away silly pens. The key is to keep them under the pump for 80 minutes, which isn’t easy. The Irish did it, the Lions too. The Scottish were so close, their line speed showed the world how to play, and I hope we spend the week trying to find ways to combat it, cause Wales will probably do the same.

For about 8 years a bunch of posters here have moaned about Wales style of play under Gatland and his selections. Now it seems the style is different, and he’s picked a development team(which won), and many are still up in arms. :D

I’m no fan of his, but who do you people think can come in and change the results? Does anyone even want the job? Wales has internal issues that Gatland has zero to do with, those issues were there before him, and will be there after he’s run out of town. New coach, same issues. There’s posters here who hate other regions with a passion, some hope Wales lose, and one even goes so far to hope for injuries to welsh players. It’s all a bit bizarre really.


Much of what you say is true, but for a coach to pick a style and stick to it no matter what smacks of arrogance while gats has been coach we have had some very good players, but did he get the best out of them.
I think not, his style was competitive against the Northern teams, but it has never been against the southern sides yet he persisted with it.
In my view this is not a good coach, but your right he will eventually be run out of town like many others before him
Our system or lack of it, will eventually be our demise in world rugby, our problem is if its not broke don't fix it people in charge don't realise every thig is broke.



He picked a style that the players could play or his style happened to be one the players could play :dontknow: I dont think he was originally selected for his style of play but due to his success, (with London Wasps in particular) so it may have been a lucky fit. He surrounded himself with a coaching staff he felt comfortable with, rather than known quality.

Before Gatland came along the taste of success was a very rare one against the Northern or Southern Hemisphere even in the 70's the SH results were far from great for Wales. Suppose it all depends on how one looks at it.

NZ can lose key players, yet the style of play which is based on decision making, based on circumstances is still possible due to the quality of the players, their understanding and consistency of execution of the tasks. That has as much to do with their development system as their current coaches. Gatland has never had that as coach of Wales, a second string Welsh team was lucky to beat Georgia at home, a second string English team could play fantastic rugby against Argentina away. NZ could probably pick 4 sides to put 30 points on Georgia. Gatland will ultimately take the blame for the failure of the system. Welsh rugby is a long way away from blaming itself, its structures. The Gatland argument is merely a subplot.

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Mon Nov 20, 2017 8:19 pm
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
Blindside wrote:
Dai Yorkshire wrote:
loosechange wrote:
He picked a style that the players could play or his style happened to be one the players could play :dontknow: I dont think he was originally selected for his style of play but due to his success, (with London Wasps in particular) so it may have been a lucky fit. He surrounded himself with a coaching staff he felt comfortable with, rather than known quality.

Before Gatland came along the taste of success was a very rare one against the Northern or Southern Hemisphere even in the 70's the SH results were far from great for Wales. Suppose it all depends on how one looks at it.

NZ can lose key players, yet the style of play which is based on decision making, based on circumstances is still possible due to the quality of the players, their understanding and consistency of execution of the tasks. That has as much to do with their development system as their current coaches. Gatland has never had that as coach of Wales, a second string Welsh team was lucky to beat Georgia at home, a second string English team could play fantastic rugby against Argentina away. NZ could probably pick 4 sides to put 30 points on Georgia. Gatland will ultimately take the blame for the failure of the system. Welsh rugby is a long way away from blaming itself, its structures. The Gatland argument is merely a subplot.


Lets look at the 70s 1970 against SA who were every bit as good as NZ back then.

SA6 W6

Aus0 W24 1973, 1975 Aus3 W28.

NZ19 W16 1972 1978 NZ13 W12 we have all heard about the infamous dive So hardly a disaster against the SH
He picked a style that every one could play, your saying the welsh players couldn't play any other way, yet Pivac and S Jones took the players that you believed could play no other style and transformed them, so your reasoning might not be as straight forward as you would have us believe.
We played a style of rugby in the 70s that was the envy of the world we took it to NZ with the 1971 lions, NZ embraced it we abandon it for Bish Bash and coaches from the 80s and 90s carried on with it.
Is our structure right? Of course not and never will be if we pursue Bish bash, We need the physicality to be able to stand our ground, but we need the guile that was lost to us brought back, the backs have always decided by how much.

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Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:24 pm
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
Fwiw, Blindside makes a lot of good points, but in the last World Cup what was more-or-less a full-strength All Blacks team struggled throughout much of their match against Georgia and only in the last half-hour pulled away to win 43-10. Full-strength Irish and Scottish teams have also struggled against Georgia in previous World Cups. When looking at Gatland's selection I did think it was both risky and disrespectful towards Georgia.


Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:37 pm
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
loosechange wrote:
This AB team isn’t great, and without the old heads they panic far too much for my liking. If put under the pump they give away silly pens. The key is to keep them under the pump for 80 minutes, which isn’t easy. The Irish did it, the Lions too. The Scottish were so close, their line speed showed the world how to play, and I hope we spend the week trying to find ways to combat it, cause Wales will probably do the same.

For about 8 years a bunch of posters here have moaned about Wales style of play under Gatland and his selections. Now it seems the style is different, and he’s picked a development team(which won), and many are still up in arms. :D

I’m no fan of his, but who do you people think can come in and change the results? Does anyone even want the job? Wales has internal issues that Gatland has zero to do with, those issues were there before him, and will be there after he’s run out of town. New coach, same issues. There’s posters here who hate other regions with a passion, some hope Wales lose, and one even goes so far to hope for injuries to welsh players. It’s all a bit bizarre really.


I understand what you are saying but I think Gatland has had opportunities to play a more creative team. For a long time people were saying we needed a nore creative inside centre. We have had plenty of players who could have played second 5/8s. Whether they would have been any good or not remains to be seen but they were never tried.

Gatland said in an interview not long ago that we haven't had the players to do this. Yet, Owen Williams, they player he eventually decided to play there has been playing well in this position for a few years. Even if we only tried something different for 10 minutes. Say, bringing on a player who could play 15 10 and 12 during a match.

I appreciate that the depth is lacking but we haven't tried it.

Also, I appreciate that the problem isn't about changing our centre but it something that we seem to have taken up after another team did it first.


Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:26 pm
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
Dai Yorkshire wrote:
Blindside wrote:
Dai Yorkshire wrote:
loosechange wrote:
He picked a style that the players could play or his style happened to be one the players could play :dontknow: I dont think he was originally selected for his style of play but due to his success, (with London Wasps in particular) so it may have been a lucky fit. He surrounded himself with a coaching staff he felt comfortable with, rather than known quality.

Before Gatland came along the taste of success was a very rare one against the Northern or Southern Hemisphere even in the 70's the SH results were far from great for Wales. Suppose it all depends on how one looks at it.

NZ can lose key players, yet the style of play which is based on decision making, based on circumstances is still possible due to the quality of the players, their understanding and consistency of execution of the tasks. That has as much to do with their development system as their current coaches. Gatland has never had that as coach of Wales, a second string Welsh team was lucky to beat Georgia at home, a second string English team could play fantastic rugby against Argentina away. NZ could probably pick 4 sides to put 30 points on Georgia. Gatland will ultimately take the blame for the failure of the system. Welsh rugby is a long way away from blaming itself, its structures. The Gatland argument is merely a subplot.


Lets look at the 70s 1970 against SA who were every bit as good as NZ back then.

SA6 W6

Aus0 W24 1973, 1975 Aus3 W28.

NZ19 W16 1972 1978 NZ13 W12 we have all heard about the infamous dive So hardly a disaster against the SH
He picked a style that every one could play, your saying the welsh players couldn't play any other way, yet Pivac and S Jones took the players that you believed could play no other style and transformed them, so your reasoning might not be as straight forward as you would have us believe.
We played a style of rugby in the 70s that was the envy of the world we took it to NZ with the 1971 lions, NZ embraced it we abandon it for Bish Bash and coaches from the 80s and 90s carried on with it.
Is our structure right? Of course not and never will be if we pursue Bish bash, We need the physicality to be able to stand our ground, but we need the guile that was lost to us brought back, the backs have always decided by how much.



Im not really disagreeing im just saying that there was a long wait for the success that Gatland presided over. It had been 25 years since we regularly challenged the best in the NH, we were far closer to NZ then, granted, but even in the 70s w never beat NZ.

We played an innovative style of rugby in the 70s but the side met virtually before kick off there was limited organization very limited defensive structure etc. Carwyn was probably not only one of the best coaches but one of the first true coaches.

What is missing cannot be put right by a head coach, if Wales defeat NZ Saturday it will not mean all is well in Welsh rugby.

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Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:39 pm
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
we have had the trials for what they have been worth, now is soon the moment of proof and truth.

Did anyone really care about Australia and Georgia? I bet The Georgians did.

Simple fact is that this is the game.


Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:51 pm
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
I agree that a great Head Coach certainly isn't everything, but (s)he can mitigate and ameliorate the team even without curing all its problems and those beneath it. As I have said elsewhere, before Eddie Jones came along England - for all their wealth, resources and player numbers - were nothing spectacular, having won no silverware between 2004-15 except for the 2011 6N.


Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:57 pm
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