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Wales v NZ Match thread 
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
Dai Yorkshire wrote:
Blindside wrote:
Dai Yorkshire wrote:
Blindside wrote:
Dai Yorkshire wrote:
loosechange wrote:
He picked a style that the players could play or his style happened to be one the players could play :dontknow: I dont think he was originally selected for his style of play but due to his success, (with London Wasps in particular) so it may have been a lucky fit. He surrounded himself with a coaching staff he felt comfortable with, rather than known quality.

Before Gatland came along the taste of success was a very rare one against the Northern or Southern Hemisphere even in the 70's the SH results were far from great for Wales. Suppose it all depends on how one looks at it.

NZ can lose key players, yet the style of play which is based on decision making, based on circumstances is still possible due to the quality of the players, their understanding and consistency of execution of the tasks. That has as much to do with their development system as their current coaches. Gatland has never had that as coach of Wales, a second string Welsh team was lucky to beat Georgia at home, a second string English team could play fantastic rugby against Argentina away. NZ could probably pick 4 sides to put 30 points on Georgia. Gatland will ultimately take the blame for the failure of the system. Welsh rugby is a long way away from blaming itself, its structures. The Gatland argument is merely a subplot.


Lets look at the 70s 1970 against SA who were every bit as good as NZ back then.

SA6 W6

Aus0 W24 1973, 1975 Aus3 W28.

NZ19 W16 1972 1978 NZ13 W12 we have all heard about the infamous dive So hardly a disaster against the SH
He picked a style that every one could play, your saying the welsh players couldn't play any other way, yet Pivac and S Jones took the players that you believed could play no other style and transformed them, so your reasoning might not be as straight forward as you would have us believe.
We played a style of rugby in the 70s that was the envy of the world we took it to NZ with the 1971 lions, NZ embraced it we abandon it for Bish Bash and coaches from the 80s and 90s carried on with it.
Is our structure right? Of course not and never will be if we pursue Bish bash, We need the physicality to be able to stand our ground, but we need the guile that was lost to us brought back, the backs have always decided by how much.



Im not really disagreeing im just saying that there was a long wait for the success that Gatland presided over. It had been 25 years since we regularly challenged the best in the NH, we were far closer to NZ then, granted, but even in the 70s w never beat NZ.

We played an innovative style of rugby in the 70s but the side met virtually before kick off there was limited organization very limited defensive structure etc. Carwyn was probably not only one of the best coaches but one of the first true coaches.

What is missing cannot be put right by a head coach, if Wales defeat NZ Saturday it will not mean all is well in Welsh rugby.


I agree, but couldn't another coach have done as well as Gatland, there is no innovation from Gatland, what we are trying to do now has been tried before by many sides.
Yes it goes far deeper than the head coach there is no argument there and there never has been from me.

What I disagree with passionately Is the premise that we couldn't play any other way.



I completely agree that another coach could have done as well as Gatland, Gatland has brought discipline and focus, clear leadership, he rules the roost. What im not sure about is if any coach would have done any better. Obviously, i don't know.

I must agree that the words innovative and groundbreaking do not spring to mind when discussing the coaching set-up. I would say that this coaching set up now has "baggage" and its probably time for a fresh start, i suppose they deserve one more shot at the WC, however things can change quickly and a really poor 6 Nations would probably be the end of them.

While we focus on the top the roots wither.

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Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:38 pm
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
While we focus on the top the roots whither, Wow a very profound statement, but true with out strong roots, you hold nothing up and eventually collapse, you print a very shaky future for welsh rugby. :(

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Tue Nov 21, 2017 3:50 pm
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
It's the likes of Gareth Davies and the fans of the joking.super clubs fault.

Their focus is on the top and the roots are withering, I was telling this board that years ago but nobody was listening.

Mortgage the stadium and give the joking.super clubs more money to get has been over the hill foreigners, it's so short sighted it's laughable if it was not so serious.

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Tue Nov 21, 2017 7:55 pm
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
I posted this in the wrong thread. :D

Liam Williams and Alex Cuthbert out of AB test.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/42067074
Back three for the match, Ha'penny, Steff & Hallam probably pencilled in.
The jury is out on the number 10 jersey. :D
If it's Biggar then number 12 will be Jamie Roberts - going backwards?
If it's the Priest then number 12 will be Owen Williams - looking to the future.
Number 13 any of Watkin, Scott W., JR. Smart money on Watkin.
9 is odds-on for Webb.

Given Biggar/Roberts then Lydiate at 6.
Given the Priest/O.W. then Shingler at 6.


Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:07 pm
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
BigRed wrote:
I posted this in the wrong thread. :D

Liam Williams and Alex Cuthbert out of AB test.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/42067074
Back three for the match, Ha'penny, Steff & Hallam probably pencilled in.
The jury is out on the number 10 jersey. :D
If it's Biggar then number 12 will be Jamie Roberts - going backwards?
If it's the Priest then number 12 will be Owen Williams - looking to the future.
Number 13 any of Watkin, Scott W., JR. Smart money on Watkin.
9 is odds-on for Webb.

Given Biggar/Roberts then Lydiate at 6.
Given the Priest/O.W. then Shingler at 6.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/42071404
Defence coach Shaun Edwards hints at Jamie Roberts recall


Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:10 pm
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
BigRed wrote:
BigRed wrote:
I posted this in the wrong thread. :D

Liam Williams and Alex Cuthbert out of AB test.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/42067074
Back three for the match, Ha'penny, Steff & Hallam probably pencilled in.
The jury is out on the number 10 jersey. :D
If it's Biggar then number 12 will be Jamie Roberts - going backwards?
If it's the Priest then number 12 will be Owen Williams - looking to the future.
Number 13 any of Watkin, Scott W., JR. Smart money on Watkin.
9 is odds-on for Webb.

Given Biggar/Roberts then Lydiate at 6.
Given the Priest/O.W. then Shingler at 6.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/42071404
Defence coach Shaun Edwards hints at Jamie Roberts recall


That's real progress...

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Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:15 pm
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
Langland Exile wrote:
BigRed wrote:
BigRed wrote:
I posted this in the wrong thread. :D

Liam Williams and Alex Cuthbert out of AB test.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/42067074
Back three for the match, Ha'penny, Steff & Hallam probably pencilled in.
The jury is out on the number 10 jersey. :D
If it's Biggar then number 12 will be Jamie Roberts - going backwards?
If it's the Priest then number 12 will be Owen Williams - looking to the future.
Number 13 any of Watkin, Scott W., JR. Smart money on Watkin.
9 is odds-on for Webb.

Given Biggar/Roberts then Lydiate at 6.
Given the Priest/O.W. then Shingler at 6.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/42071404
Defence coach Shaun Edwards hints at Jamie Roberts recall


That's real progress...



I hate to admit my thought pattern here :oops: , with the withdrawal of Liam Williams there are very few genuine threats in the Welsh backline with ball in hand JD and Steff Evans being the exceptions. Evans not great defensively.... For me i can see why they are playing Owen Williams but i don't think he's an international quality 12, may as well play Biggar there :dontknow: So you're playing a "creative player"that's not a particular threat but i dont think hes got enough threatening players to be creative for. Roberts is a far better centre and a genuine threat, but he's not creative, he's one dimensional in attack and solid in defence. If my life depended on it, id play Roberts, why because we know what we want at 12 but we havent got it. Roberts is at home at this level.

I hope he doesnt play him and plays OW, because who ever they play they are likey to loose, but if they play Roberts and have a few points put on them, Roberts will be the fall guy.

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Tue Nov 21, 2017 9:59 pm
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
Blindside wrote:
Langland Exile wrote:
BigRed wrote:
BigRed wrote:
I posted this in the wrong thread. :D

Liam Williams and Alex Cuthbert out of AB test.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/42067074
Back three for the match, Ha'penny, Steff & Hallam probably pencilled in.
The jury is out on the number 10 jersey. :D
If it's Biggar then number 12 will be Jamie Roberts - going backwards?
If it's the Priest then number 12 will be Owen Williams - looking to the future.
Number 13 any of Watkin, Scott W., JR. Smart money on Watkin.
9 is odds-on for Webb.

Given Biggar/Roberts then Lydiate at 6.
Given the Priest/O.W. then Shingler at 6.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/42071404
Defence coach Shaun Edwards hints at Jamie Roberts recall


That's real progress...



I hate to admit my thought pattern here :oops: , with the withdrawal of Liam Williams there are very few genuine threats in the Welsh backline with ball in hand JD and Steff Evans being the exceptions. Evans not great defensively.... For me i can see why they are playing Owen Williams but i don't think he's an international quality 12, may as well play Biggar there :dontknow: So you're playing a "creative player"that's not a particular threat but i dont think hes got enough threatening players to be creative for. Roberts is a far better centre and a genuine threat, but he's not creative, he's one dimensional in attack and solid in defence. If my life depended on it, id play Roberts, why because we know what we want at 12 but we havent got it. Roberts is at home at this level.

I hope he doesnt play him and plays OW, because who ever they play they are likey to loose, but if they play Roberts and have a few points put on them, Roberts will be the fall guy.

Losing Foxy was a body blow, no where mear any one that good to take his place. The ditto for Liam.
By a mega mile our two best backs.
I would consider this backline in the circumstances.
15 Ha'penny
14 Amos
13 Roberts
12 Owen Williams
11 Stef Evans
10 the Priest
9 Webb

My thought is that Roberts can be a foil for Stef and Hallam, who could play off him.


Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:43 pm
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
So, Priestland creates very little in an embarrassing game against Georgia, and folk want him back in the team? Can't see it personally.

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Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:32 am
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
I'm telling ya...Wales by 1.


Wed Nov 22, 2017 11:48 am
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
spinbreath wrote:
So, Priestland creates very little in an embarrassing game against Georgia, and folk want him back in the team? Can't see it personally.

The Priest created a lot, it was those around him that messed up.
Against Scarlets he completely outplayed Rhys Patchell and was a major factor in Bath beating the Scarlets.
Bath are currently in 4th position in the EPL amid rave reports about the Priest and going strong in Europe.
Ospreys with Biggar on the other hand......


Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:18 pm
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
Probably the only one here, but I would like to see Dan Evans in at 15 with the incumbents missing. Not sure about this for his first game though

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Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:24 pm
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
soap wrote:
Probably the only one here, but I would like to see Dan Evans in at 15 with the incumbents missing. Not sure about this for his first game though


Bit undersized for this game?

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Wed Nov 22, 2017 3:54 pm
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
Langland Exile wrote:
soap wrote:
Probably the only one here, but I would like to see Dan Evans in at 15 with the incumbents missing. Not sure about this for his first game though


Bit undersized for this game?

Hmm, Steff and Ha'penny?


Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:07 pm
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
Talking of Steff, he never posts on here these days...


Wed Nov 22, 2017 4:32 pm
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