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Wales v NZ Match thread 
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
Interesting.

Don't know much about a lot of these - but were a lot of them involved in successful campaigns at youth level?


Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:06 am
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
Bouch wrote:
1100 Olly Kohn Ireland 2 February 2013
1101 Dafydd Howells Japan 8 June 2013
1102 James King Japan 8 June 2013
1103 Emyr Phillips Japan 8 June 2013
1104 Owen Williams Japan 8 June 2013
1105 Dan Baker Japan 8 June 2013
1106 Rhys Patchell Japan 8 June 2013
1107 Andries Pretorius Japan 8 June 2013
1108 Josh Navidi Japan 15 June 2013
1109 Scott Baldwin Japan 15 June 2013

1110 Cory Allen Argentina 16 November 2013
1111 Samson Lee Argentina 16 November 2013
1112 Hallam Amos Tonga 22 November 2013
1113 Rhodri Williams Tonga 22 November 2013
1114 Jake Ball Ireland 8 February 2014
1115 Gareth Davies South Africa 14 June 2014
1116 Matthew Morgan South Africa 14 June 2014
1117 Nicky Smith Fiji 15 November 2014
1118 Rob Evans Ireland 14 March 2015
1119 Dominic Day Ireland 8 August 2015

1120 Ross Moriarty Ireland 8 August 2015
1121 Eli Walker Ireland 8 August 2015
1122 Tyler Morgan Ireland 8 August 2015
1123 Kristian Dacey Ireland 8 August 2015
1124 Gareth Anscombe Ireland 8 August 2015
1125 Tomas Francis Ireland 29 August 2015
1126 Ellis Jenkins New Zealand 11 June 2016
1127 Cory Hill Australia 5 November 2016
1128 Sam Davies Australia 5 November 2016
1129 Seb Davies Tonga 16 June 2017

1130 Thomas Young Tonga 16 June 2017
1131 Steffan Evans Tonga 16 June 2017
1132 Wyn Jones Tonga 16 June 2017
1133 Ryan Elias Tonga 16 June 2017
1134 Dillon Lewis Tonga 16 June 2017
1135 Ollie Griffiths Tonga 16 June 2017
1136 Aled Davies Tonga 16 June 2017
1137 Owen Williams Tonga 16 June 2017
1138 Rory Thornton Samoa 23 June 2017
1139 Adam Beard Samoa 23 June 2017

1140 Owen Watkin Australia 11 November 2017
1141 Leon Brown Australia 11 November 2017
1142 Sam Cross Australia 11 November 2017
1143 Elliot Dee Georgia 18 November 2017


Only a few players ...

:kermit:




A similar list could be provided for Bridgend or Kidwelly of Cambrian Welfare, its a list.

The "system" still produces players to take the field at international level and there is competition for professional contracts. The issue is compared to NZ, England, Australia, South Africa etc how good are they. Im sorry but if i looked at the last 10 players on that list i wouldn't be doing cartwheels of excitement.

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Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:24 am
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
I think the Welsh try just before half time showed what this team can do. An excellent well worked try from first phase which was clearly won on the training ground. Surely testament to the fact that the coaches are no mugs and that given a bit more time, this team can develop the new style. There is still some hangover from 5 years of Gatlandball where occasionally forwards looked to take contact when there was something potentially on out wide. This will change but it will take longer than an international or two to get it right.

First thing is to get the regions playing this style. And also the youngsters. I was horrified at Blindsides comment somewhere (I think it was BS) that kids at age grade were being coached to play Gatlandball. That's one way to kill our game.

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Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:46 am
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
Blindside wrote:
Bouch wrote:
1100 Olly Kohn Ireland 2 February 2013
1101 Dafydd Howells Japan 8 June 2013
1102 James King Japan 8 June 2013
1103 Emyr Phillips Japan 8 June 2013
1104 Owen Williams Japan 8 June 2013
1105 Dan Baker Japan 8 June 2013
1106 Rhys Patchell Japan 8 June 2013
1107 Andries Pretorius Japan 8 June 2013
1108 Josh Navidi Japan 15 June 2013
1109 Scott Baldwin Japan 15 June 2013

1110 Cory Allen Argentina 16 November 2013
1111 Samson Lee Argentina 16 November 2013
1112 Hallam Amos Tonga 22 November 2013
1113 Rhodri Williams Tonga 22 November 2013
1114 Jake Ball Ireland 8 February 2014
1115 Gareth Davies South Africa 14 June 2014
1116 Matthew Morgan South Africa 14 June 2014
1117 Nicky Smith Fiji 15 November 2014
1118 Rob Evans Ireland 14 March 2015
1119 Dominic Day Ireland 8 August 2015

1120 Ross Moriarty Ireland 8 August 2015
1121 Eli Walker Ireland 8 August 2015
1122 Tyler Morgan Ireland 8 August 2015
1123 Kristian Dacey Ireland 8 August 2015
1124 Gareth Anscombe Ireland 8 August 2015
1125 Tomas Francis Ireland 29 August 2015
1126 Ellis Jenkins New Zealand 11 June 2016
1127 Cory Hill Australia 5 November 2016
1128 Sam Davies Australia 5 November 2016
1129 Seb Davies Tonga 16 June 2017

1130 Thomas Young Tonga 16 June 2017
1131 Steffan Evans Tonga 16 June 2017
1132 Wyn Jones Tonga 16 June 2017
1133 Ryan Elias Tonga 16 June 2017
1134 Dillon Lewis Tonga 16 June 2017
1135 Ollie Griffiths Tonga 16 June 2017
1136 Aled Davies Tonga 16 June 2017
1137 Owen Williams Tonga 16 June 2017
1138 Rory Thornton Samoa 23 June 2017
1139 Adam Beard Samoa 23 June 2017

1140 Owen Watkin Australia 11 November 2017
1141 Leon Brown Australia 11 November 2017
1142 Sam Cross Australia 11 November 2017
1143 Elliot Dee Georgia 18 November 2017


Only a few players ...

:kermit:




A similar list could be provided for Bridgend or Kidwelly of Cambrian Welfare, its a list.

The "system" still produces players to take the field at international level and there is competition for professional contracts. The issue is compared to NZ, England, Australia, South Africa etc how good are they. Im sorry but if i looked at the last 10 players on that list i wouldn't be doing cartwheels of excitement.


Grim said, "That doesn't answer the question, you believe that the existing system produces talented players, who are they?"

I merely pointed out that we've used a lot of players in the last few years.

Foxy was a slow burn and the Lions experiences have clearly done him the power of good.

Let's hope we see similar improvements in other players as time goes by, Blindside.


Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:16 am
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
ICEverything wrote:
I think the Welsh try just before half time showed what this team can do. An excellent well worked try from first phase which was clearly won on the training ground. Surely testament to the fact that the coaches are no mugs and that given a bit more time, this team can develop the new style. There is still some hangover from 5 years of Gatlandball where occasionally forwards looked to take contact when there was something potentially on out wide. This will change but it will take longer than an international or two to get it right.

First thing is to get the regions playing this style. And also the youngsters. I was horrified at Blindsides comment somewhere (I think it was BS) that kids at age grade were being coached to play Gatlandball. That's one way to kill our game.



Hope you are right Icey.

The progress has been relatively slow while other countries have been developing very well. We cannot lose any more time.


Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:53 am
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
Bouch wrote:
Grim said, "That doesn't answer the question, you believe that the existing system produces talented players, who are they?"

I merely pointed out that we've used a lot of players in the last few years.

Foxy was a slow burn and the Lions experiences have clearly done him the power of good.

Let's hope we see similar improvements in other players as time goes by, Blindside.


The key word being talented.

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Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:33 pm
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
buglet wrote:
ICEverything wrote:
I think the Welsh try just before half time showed what this team can do. An excellent well worked try from first phase which was clearly won on the training ground. Surely testament to the fact that the coaches are no mugs and that given a bit more time, this team can develop the new style. There is still some hangover from 5 years of Gatlandball where occasionally forwards looked to take contact when there was something potentially on out wide. This will change but it will take longer than an international or two to get it right.

First thing is to get the regions playing this style. And also the youngsters. I was horrified at Blindsides comment somewhere (I think it was BS) that kids at age grade were being coached to play Gatlandball. That's one way to kill our game.



Hope you are right Icey.

The progress has been relatively slow while other countries have been developing very well. We cannot lose any more time.
I have many qualities, but being right isn't usually one of them bugley. :D

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Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:44 pm
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
Bouch wrote:



1132 Wyn Jones Tonga 16 June 2017 On the decline.

Only a few players ...

:kermit:
There you go, your list corrected.

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Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:16 pm
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
ICEverything wrote:
I think the Welsh try just before half time showed what this team can do. An excellent well worked try from first phase which was clearly won on the training ground. Surely testament to the fact that the coaches are no mugs and that given a bit more time, this team can develop the new style. There is still some hangover from 5 years of Gatlandball where occasionally forwards looked to take contact when there was something potentially on out wide. This will change but it will take longer than an international or two to get it right.

First thing is to get the regions playing this style. And also the youngsters. I was horrified at Blindsides comment somewhere (I think it was BS) that kids at age grade were being coached to play Gatlandball. That's one way to kill our game.


The question is, if the coaches can be given credit for changing a system that is five yeaes out of date, using players that have been available for some time, then they can also be blamed for using a system for so long that didn't work.

Lot's of other teams have been using a new system for a while and suffered no loss of performance.


Wed Nov 29, 2017 6:18 pm
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
ICEverything wrote:
buglet wrote:
ICEverything wrote:
I think the Welsh try just before half time showed what this team can do. An excellent well worked try from first phase which was clearly won on the training ground. Surely testament to the fact that the coaches are no mugs and that given a bit more time, this team can develop the new style. There is still some hangover from 5 years of Gatlandball where occasionally forwards looked to take contact when there was something potentially on out wide. This will change but it will take longer than an international or two to get it right.

First thing is to get the regions playing this style. And also the youngsters. I was horrified at Blindsides comment somewhere (I think it was BS) that kids at age grade were being coached to play Gatlandball. That's one way to kill our game.



Hope you are right Icey.

The progress has been relatively slow while other countries have been developing very well. We cannot lose any more time.
I have many qualities, but being right isn't usually one of them bugley. :D



Bugley? I think not Icey dude. It’s Boogie or Boogs.


Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:13 pm
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
Cymru am byth wrote:
ICEverything wrote:
I think the Welsh try just before half time showed what this team can do. An excellent well worked try from first phase which was clearly won on the training ground. Surely testament to the fact that the coaches are no mugs and that given a bit more time, this team can develop the new style. There is still some hangover from 5 years of Gatlandball where occasionally forwards looked to take contact when there was something potentially on out wide. This will change but it will take longer than an international or two to get it right.

First thing is to get the regions playing this style. And also the youngsters. I was horrified at Blindsides comment somewhere (I think it was BS) that kids at age grade were being coached to play Gatlandball. That's one way to kill our game.


The question is, if the coaches can be given credit for changing a system that is five yeaes out of date, using players that have been available for some time, then they can also be blamed for using a system for so long that didn't work.

Lot's of other teams have been using a new system for a while and suffered no loss of performance.




I suppose though to be fair, as coaches, you would have to consider the performance of the Lions where they did have resources :dontknow:

I'm playing devils advocate as i think you have a point, but the issue of coaching must take into account the raw materials.

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“None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free.”
"The price of anything is the amount of life you exchange for


Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:47 pm
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
Thegrimriper wrote:
Bouch wrote:



1132 Wyn Jones Tonga 16 June 2017 On the decline.

Only a few players ...

:kermit:
There you go, your list corrected.


Are you talking about AWJ?

:D


Wed Nov 29, 2017 10:31 pm
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
Blindside wrote:
Cymru am byth wrote:
ICEverything wrote:
I think the Welsh try just before half time showed what this team can do. An excellent well worked try from first phase which was clearly won on the training ground. Surely testament to the fact that the coaches are no mugs and that given a bit more time, this team can develop the new style. There is still some hangover from 5 years of Gatlandball where occasionally forwards looked to take contact when there was something potentially on out wide. This will change but it will take longer than an international or two to get it right.

First thing is to get the regions playing this style. And also the youngsters. I was horrified at Blindsides comment somewhere (I think it was BS) that kids at age grade were being coached to play Gatlandball. That's one way to kill our game.


The question is, if the coaches can be given credit for changing a system that is five yeaes out of date, using players that have been available for some time, then they can also be blamed for using a system for so long that didn't work.

Lot's of other teams have been using a new system for a while and suffered no loss of performance.




I suppose though to be fair, as coaches, you would have to consider the performance of the Lions where they did have resources :dontknow:

I'm playing devils advocate as i think you have a point, but the issue of coaching must take into account the raw materials.


I agree that the Lions exposed a few interesting selections. Namely Liam Williams at fullback instead of Halfpenny.

However, I think the argument that is generally being made is the selection of the distributing inside centre. The forwards I would say have been ok really.

I don't buy the idea as Gatland said, that until recently we have not had the players to try the above. In other words, Owen Williams. As I have said a few times, IF this is the style that they had wanted to play but were hampered by selection, then surely there have been lots of opportunities to try something different for a few years. Not least, they could have picked the very player who for a few years has been playing the very role they ended up picking him for. Owen Williams.

Secondly, if the second 5/8 role is one that the management have wanted to try for a while (I see no evidence they have), and assuming they haven't rated Owen Williams, then there have been many opportunities to try different combinations here.

Whether the management rate Owen Williams or not, is kind of irrelevant, if you consider that we have loads of fly halves, not least Biggar and Priestland and maybe Patcheĺl who have played 12 at some point. I caveat, I don't say these players are necessarily the answer for role BUT, I don't recall this having even been tried.

One of the issues we have had for a while has been the distribution from centre. I appreciate we lack depth, I appreciate it is a specialist role. But this lack of experimentation is the sort of thing that is long overdue.


Wed Nov 29, 2017 11:11 pm
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
I agree I have never believed this is the only way we can play rubbish, It well might be the only way the coaches coach as Blindside has eluded too, But playing should be about different strengths, you must have the grunt of the forwards but the guile of the backs is equally important.

It is a sad state indeed that Welsh rugby has sat back and let this carry on for so long.

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Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:50 am
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Post Re: Wales v NZ Match thread
Dai Yorkshire wrote:
I agree I have never believed this is the only way we can play rubbish, It well might be the only way the coaches coach as Blindside has eluded too, But playing should be about different strengths, you must have the grunt of the forwards but the guile of the backs is equally important.



True, you can play rubbish in other ways too ;)

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Thu Nov 30, 2017 1:44 pm
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