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2017 exodus of players from NZ, many 
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Post Re: 2017 exodus of players from NZ, many
Forrealz wrote:
Don't know where the doom and gloom and sky is falling scenario came from, ah that's right, your mate :D
These are medium concerns, the Sky is dropping at incredible rates in SA and Aussie but even that could be temporary, worry for Aussie though..big work to be done there

Just discussion

1)Concussion, its huge, Naholo, Reid, Retallic, Ngatai, Fekitoa, Coles, Ben Smith, the great McCaw all have or had Concussion issues..

2) Players leaving mid stride
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/opi ... -of-exiles
Mark can be a bit ott, but some really good debate on other sites, it's happening more and more, the sky's not falling as you refer but many people are concerned, this is 2017, not a RWC cycle, and not players at end of Careers

3) Does anyone think Super rugby is great, format, Cheetahs and Kings made official last night. The whole Super rugby system is flawed (my opinion) its past it used by date, even SA are moving forward. We are left trying to save a sinking brand standing still, it needs re thunk, the sky is falling here maybe

4) its more like 12 years dominance crept for 2007 choke, all that is asked is can we continue this. Our NH AIs have been excellent, have we lost to England once and Ireland over 12 years AIs? My forcaste is that total dominance, crazy dominance wont continue at this 95 percentile win, in 2030 ish, will we have lost 2 AIs in all that time? You'd be a brave man to take that gamble. By 2030 I think Wales will have beaten us once, France, England could catch us up as above, by then and Ireland up and down, surely we can't lose to Scotland. It's going to be an awesome ride.


Where's the doom and gloom, just some reality, predicted all be it. Home nations will beat us more regularly (than currently anyway) in AIs than the last 12 years. If we go 12 years with 2 loses again, that will be awesome, no worries.
Super rugby needs revamped
Concussion sucks
We are having more players, outside the first 15 leave at younger ages

The "Sky is falling" citation, pretty average author of that in my opinion

Possibly the All Blacks road at the top of the mountain will be harder to maintain moving forward, we can do it but gees it's becoming harder and World rugby looks in great shape, esp in NH atm, predictions only.....

FMYs has zero to do with me interpreting yours posts as doom and gloom, it's pretty much always been that way bro. Maybe you think you don't come across that way, and on this thread alone maybe it doesn't seem like it, but over the years you're the only kiwi who continuously says we are going to be in the shit. And it's never happened.

Now to Aus and SA. Agree. They are in a bad patch. I think it won't last for the meat eaters, this whole quota lark is going to help them in the long run imho. The cons though......... they aren't looking like digging themselves out, but it's Aus, so there's always some hope.

1. Concussion is a worldwide problem, it indeed sucks, but I guess it's for the better.
2. Reason is a fruit loop bro. He's called Mark because his mum couldn't decide between Doom or Gloom. We will always lose players. It's a shame of course, but it's also a plus.
3. Super rugby was good, but it grew bigger and not better. Back to 12 or 14 with some new teams.
4. 2030. :shock: That's ages away bro. :scratch: Anyone would be mad to predict what rugby will be like then. I hope those listed countries do improve, it's good for everyone. But imho there's zero proof that anything is going to change too drastically. It's ups and downs, we are just lucky we have lots of ups. England are looking stronger, but we've been there before. Wales might beat us but again, what evidence is there that their rugby is improving? The lions winning has proven almost nothing, except maybe we aren't invincible, which we already knew. It's given the NH a lot of confidence which is good. Ireland beat us, and thoroughly deserved it, and it could happen anytime, but I don't think that's really changed where we are, if anything these losses are important.

We have incredible depth in NZ, I think many outsiders would cringe when a kiwi says we have none.
We are in a good place, just have to sort out super rugby and what direction we will go in there.

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Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:48 am
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Post Re: 2017 exodus of players from NZ, many
gees Loosie
I don't think Ive ever said we were going to be shit, I may say that selection is shit, its opinion, we may be beaten more by NH teams, hope that's OK, its opinion bro
Concerns are fine, with more and more kiwi and Island boys in NH teams too, its part of the improvement only part of the significant factors I think is helping NH rugby.
Its part of the opinion, and we are all allowed that yea?
many people critique etc
We have failed at times choked, 2007, this year, do they not count? If you just sit on fence that's fine, we are not as perfect as some think atm. 2011to 15 was aweome it made many of us believe again.
I worry I get concerned and I say why, so that's what opinion is about, and it doesn't sit well with you and others.
I doubt I'm the only Kiwi in the world that criticises NZ rugby, at times, and has opinions on depth, player selection, player migration, and its not all doom and gloom, its arm chair view.
I think you need a balanced outlook, you want to say everything is sweet, awesome that's your opinion.
Just rubbishing mine is pretty typical..
Flaws in super, you agree? sky aint falling?
concussion, you agree, sky aint falling?
Aussie, SA are crap atm, SA better position, you agree, sky aint falling?
We have a lack of depth, you don't agree, there is in the tight 5, imo, sky aint falling? its personal view.
BB has had an average year, you don't agree, opinion, and if I dare say it so and say he's not the greatest player alive, I have big issues lol.

So I refer to the last 12 years and our astonishing record, I don't think we can reproduce it in AIs, that's all, sky aint falling? its having a guess, making a call I'm just comparing the record for next era, be it 10 years soooo.. Can we keep doing that, imo nope, we will lose more than 2 in the next 10-12 years plus, 2027 is that better than 2030.. its comparing last 10 years to the future 10 and our domination.
If we do do it, awesome, I'm wrong. yay

yep Marks got his view and no matter who wrote that, the views are valid, and up for discussion, again these views have been discussed by many, some agreeing some not, I agree some of his idea are valid, so do many other kiwis, if you read more than this site alone.
Evidence is pretty clear though I would say, how many current ABs leaving mid RWC, its significant, or ostrich sand stuff, doesn't mean the sky has fallen, something we need to work on.

Of course we have great depth, enough to support NRL, Aussie super teams and the $$ in Europe and stay as dominant as we do, my opinion yep but depth will continue to be pushed.. My opinion we'll get beaten more in AI's.
With all the bravado about how great we are, its a bit boring. If I predict we wont be as successful over the next 10 years in AI's, the sky hasn't fallen, and in a way it keeps it real and interesting, where's the gloom..
Its issues and problems that need resolved..

Patrick Tuipolotu in the ABs wider squad looks like solution focussed? Selection of new props solution focussed but an issue in depth, they can go hand in hand..

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Don't tell me we have too many, and take too many PI players, we were founded by Pasifika people, we're a Pasific Island you bleep bleep..

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Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:36 am
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Post Re: 2017 exodus of players from NZ, many
wales and others may be jelous of our depth and these minimal issues, sweet.
Do we win all the games to end of year, sweet
Do we thump England next meet sweet
Do we dominate France next few years by 20 plus sweet

all good aint it, Ill be wrong, no worries

_________________
Don't tell me we have too many, and take too many PI players, we were founded by Pasifika people, we're a Pasific Island you bleep bleep..

Scuse my English/spelling/gramma and foul language


Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:40 am
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Post Re: 2017 exodus of players from NZ, many
Forrealz wrote:
gees Loosie
I don't think Ive ever said we were going to be shit, I may say that selection is shit, its opinion, we may be beaten more by NH teams, hope that's OK, its opinion bro
Concerns are fine, with more and more kiwi and Island boys in NH teams too, its part of the improvement only part of the significant factors I think is helping NH rugby.
Its part of the opinion, and we are all allowed that yea?
many people critique etc
We have failed at times choked, 2007, this year, do they not count? If you just sit on fence that's fine, we are not as perfect as some think atm. 2011to 15 was aweome it made many of us believe again.
I worry I get concerned and I say why, so that's what opinion is about, and it doesn't sit well with you and others.
I doubt I'm the only Kiwi in the world that criticises NZ rugby, at times, and has opinions on depth, player selection, player migration, and its not all doom and gloom, its arm chair view.
I think you need a balanced outlook, you want to say everything is sweet, awesome that's your opinion.
Just rubbishing mine is pretty typical..
Flaws in super, you agree? sky aint falling?
concussion, you agree, sky aint falling?
Aussie, SA are crap atm, SA better position, you agree, sky aint falling?
We have a lack of depth, you don't agree, there is in the tight 5, imo, sky aint falling? its personal view.
BB has had an average year, you don't agree, opinion, and if I dare say it so and say he's not the greatest player alive, I have big issues lol.

So I refer to the last 12 years and our astonishing record, I don't think we can reproduce it in AIs, that's all, sky aint falling? its having a guess, making a call I'm just comparing the record for next era, be it 10 years soooo.. Can we keep doing that, imo nope, we will lose more than 2 in the next 10-12 years plus, 2027 is that better than 2030.. its comparing last 10 years to the future 10 and our domination.
If we do do it, awesome, I'm wrong. yay

yep Marks got his view and no matter who wrote that, the views are valid, and up for discussion, again these views have been discussed by many, some agreeing some not, I agree some of his idea are valid, so do many other kiwis, if you read more than this site alone.
Evidence is pretty clear though I would say, how many current ABs leaving mid RWC, its significant, or ostrich sand stuff, doesn't mean the sky has fallen, something we need to work on.

Of course we have great depth, enough to support NRL, Aussie super teams and the $$ in Europe and stay as dominant as we do, my opinion yep but depth will continue to be pushed.. My opinion we'll get beaten more in AI's.
With all the bravado about how great we are, its a bit boring. If I predict we wont be as successful over the next 10 years in AI's, the sky hasn't fallen, and in a way it keeps it real and interesting, where's the gloom..
Its issues and problems that need resolved..

Patrick Tuipolotu in the ABs wider squad looks like solution focussed? Selection of new props solution focussed but an issue in depth, they can go hand in hand..

It's like you've taken this personally bro. :scratch: All I've done, is say why I think you're wrong. I haven't said anything about you, just your long term opinion of how the all blacks are. Don't take that the wrong way. There's nothing wrong with it. But this is a forum, and if people disagree with your opinion they say so. I haven't said or done anything ott, though I'm sorry for saying "in the shit". That was only meant to mean losing. The sky is falling isn't that insulting is it!? I have no idea what I can say to not get under your skin. I never intend to rark you up but it happens anyway.
The kiwis here don't really think the ABs are all mighty or anything like that, it's not arrogant to think a team that wins 95% of the time, will win. There's good reason we are confident with our systems and teams, results speak for themselves.

I guess we are arguing about the "gap" between us and them in the coming years. I don't think the Lions series changed anything except maybe NH confidence. Until we actually get up there and play them, it's impossible to know. We are looking good though I thought. We should've won the Lions series, didn't, small margins so that's not a big problem. We had 3 teams in the semis for super rugby, the comp is a mine field but we still played well.

_________________
Religion is like a penis.
It's fine to have one, and fine to be proud of it.
But please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around,
And PLEASE don't try to shove it down my child's throat.


Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:26 am
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Post Re: 2017 exodus of players from NZ, many
Loosie, love debating it, and may not be personal so good I hope, just at times on here it gets pretty personal, and I think many do it including me.
Each has an opinion, Ive been slammed for mine, others for theirs, and me to others.

We just see it diff, and call it differently
I like to worry hassle the set up. Can see the NH especially catching up and passing Aussie and SA, and knock more on our door.

All good
BB for example, I'm pissed at him not winning for us against Lions. But I'm being hard of course (but not trolling or just being a *fupwit*), some warranted, wanted him to be Carter like in the big occasion, I see he's still rated no 1 player in World, by latest poll. Just wanted him to lead from front and seal it. Still would have him as best 10 atm, but you need a kicker, and want to see him win the biggest game for us, hopefully RWC

Apologies for having a go too, expressing views about players from experience on here gets personal too, we just all have to respect we like different players, styles. Nonu vrs C Smith is classic, opposites..Pasific Island views etc etc theres so many, Deans?? Quade Cooper
Ill still moan about RWC 2007, and the stupid loss this year, pathetic
Back to it..
Nonu would kick C Smith arse in the Octagon :albino:

_________________
Don't tell me we have too many, and take too many PI players, we were founded by Pasifika people, we're a Pasific Island you bleep bleep..

Scuse my English/spelling/gramma and foul language


Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:49 am
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Post Re: 2017 exodus of players from NZ, many
Forrealz wrote:
Loosie, love debating it, and may not be personal so good I hope, just at times on here it gets pretty personal, and I think many do it including me.
Each has an opinion, Ive been slammed for mine, others for theirs, and me to others.

We just see it diff, and call it differently
I like to worry hassle the set up. Can see the NH especially catching up and passing Aussie and SA, and knock more on our door.

All good
BB for example, I'm pissed at him not winning for us against Lions. But I'm being hard of course (but not trolling or just being a *fupwit*), some warranted, wanted him to be Carter like in the big occasion, I see he's still rated no 1 player in World, by latest poll. Just wanted him to lead from front and seal it. Still would have him as best 10 atm, but you need a kicker, and want to see him win the biggest game for us, hopefully RWC

Apologies for having a go too, expressing views about players from experience on here gets personal too, we just all have to respect we like different players, styles. Nonu vrs C Smith is classic, opposites..Pasific Island views etc etc theres so many, Deans?? Quade Cooper
Ill still moan about RWC 2007, and the stupid loss this year, pathetic
Back to it..
Nonu would kick C Smith arse in the Octagon :albino:

Conrad "fittest AB" Smith, Nonu would be poked after a few haymakers and then CS could waltz in and floor him.

And just to be clear, I don't think we will dominate like we have forever, but until I see some genuine challenges, I'll continue to be happy with how everything is run.

And I was thinking about the annual exodus north, I think it would be a disaster if we didn't have it.

_________________
Religion is like a penis.
It's fine to have one, and fine to be proud of it.
But please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around,
And PLEASE don't try to shove it down my child's throat.


Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:25 am
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Post Re: 2017 exodus of players from NZ, many
Money wise, it's great, Reagan King for example made Millions of pounds now he's retired here sort of, and spending his well earnt $$

I can't remember a mid RWC wen so many current ABs are leaving.
But as you say could be good. E.g. The back up props Faumuina and Crockett it's actually better they go now, not that Crockett is on his own free will. But Faumuiina would be a big 32/3 by RWC, and possibly lost a lot, and Crockett would be 37/8 I think.

Let these new boys be blooded and prove themselves :

So to me there is concern about amount leaving but that's all opinion again, should be fine

I like Hayne and Laulala not as much as pre Lions.
I hope one of the new boys steps up....
Alalatoa 130 kg reserve prop for Saders born and raised in Aussie is my man I hope, looks good.

So personally I think you guys are better off with me here (kiwis) to challenge think different, like diff players teams coaches styles. :thefinger:

Good discussion is great

Whose the better lock
Retallic Itijo or Elzabeth

Or
Whitelock, AWJs or Lawes
We all got different ratings.
Welsh will like their boy, English theirs, SA boys theirs, Africans might like the African boy, maybe even a Dutch boy, Tel might like a French player, me Tuipolotu, it's all great :thumbup: and very natural, and not always the norm, and some crazy Scotsman will say the Grey boy, Bok his Friends son, it's awesome
Opinions are great, and all relevant

_________________
Don't tell me we have too many, and take too many PI players, we were founded by Pasifika people, we're a Pasific Island you bleep bleep..

Scuse my English/spelling/gramma and foul language


Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:55 am
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Post Re: 2017 exodus of players from NZ, many
You're part of the kiwi whanau on here bro, the mad uncle! :thefinger:

Retallick is the best forward on the planet imo, he runs around like a 7, it's insane. He's insane.

_________________
Religion is like a penis.
It's fine to have one, and fine to be proud of it.
But please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around,
And PLEASE don't try to shove it down my child's throat.


Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:17 am
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Post Re: 2017 exodus of players from NZ, many
Lol

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Don't tell me we have too many, and take too many PI players, we were founded by Pasifika people, we're a Pasific Island you bleep bleep..

Scuse my English/spelling/gramma and foul language


Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:22 am
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Post Re: 2017 exodus of players from NZ, many


Wed Aug 02, 2017 8:25 am
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