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Which home nation can take the most from the Lions? 
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Post Which home nation can take the most from the Lions?
Recent history suggests no one! Despite thrashing England 30-3 and providing 10 of the British Lions starting line up vs Australia in the third test, Wales followed up with four years of relative failure.

Arguably Wales had an influence as significant as any in the New Zealand tests. Perhaps England have gained the most as a couple of their young guns/break through stars stepped up - George, Sinclair and Daily?


Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:24 pm
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Post Re: Which home nation can take the most from the Lions?
dhook wrote:
Recent history suggests no one! Despite thrashing England 30-3 and providing 10 of the British Lions starting line up vs Australia in the third test, Wales followed up with four years of relative failure.

Arguably Wales had an influence as significant as any in the New Zealand tests. Perhaps England have gained the most as a couple of their young guns/break through stars stepped up - George, Sinclair and Daily?


and Itoje of course!


Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:26 pm
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Post Re: Which home nation can take the most from the Lions?
I think no nation will have gained much. Traditionally teams that make up the bulk of the Lions suffer afterwards. England benefited as some of our youngsters got experience at the top but we may suffer the same Lions hangover as other nations. The only hope is that the Argentina tour showed we have fair depth and so hopefully Jones can go through with what he promised and will rest the Lions players to mitigate the hangover.

Wales star names earned some credit again but there is no guarantee they will be able to maintain that when they return to playing for Wales. I wouldn't say they learned anything new and, if anything, the Lions will cement conservative choices in Wales for the next year at least, with the Welsh 2nd team not showing much.

Ireland, neither here nor there. Pretty much the same as Wales in that the already established players just strengthened their claims.

Scotland ironically probably gained the most from the Lions. They saw how piss poor Laidlaw is and how their replacement is much better, they saw the benefit of Finn Russell and essentially the fact so many of their top players were omitted but one of their shite ones was taken, along with probably avoiding the Lions hangover means Scotland could be looking forward to next year.

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Fri Jul 14, 2017 8:26 pm
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Post Re: Which home nation can take the most from the Lions?
The main benefit of the Lions for Ireland is that it gave Schmidt a chance to broaden his options in key positions for the 2019 RWC.


Fri Jul 14, 2017 9:33 pm
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Post Re: Which home nation can take the most from the Lions?
Scotland

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Fri Jul 14, 2017 10:38 pm
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Post Re: Which home nation can take the most from the Lions?
The amalgam, period.

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Sat Jul 15, 2017 4:01 pm
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Post Re: Which home nation can take the most from the Lions?
Concur with the above posters. Any 'benefits' associated with the Lion's for the home nations will be most felt by the supposed second-string players as shown on their respective tours, rather than the actual Lions tourists.

England will have uncovered some players, whilst already on Jones radar, who have proved to be good enough to compete for full squad places as a result of their Argentine success. Scotland, having very little input to the tour will have solidified their squad, at the very least. For both Ireland and Wales there is little benefit I feel.

One unintended consequence of a Lion's tour is that it tends to 'finish-off earlier' those players approaching the end of their international careers. As such, for Wales I reckon it's "Adios Amigo" to AWJ with possibly Warburton, Halfpenny and George North being phased out and replaced by others.

Hopefully, one positive to come out of this is the death of Warrenball...but we'll see.


Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:49 pm
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Post Re: Which home nation can take the most from the Lions?
Donkka wrote:
Concur with the above posters. Any 'benefits' associated with the Lion's for the home nations will be most felt by the supposed second-string players as shown on their respective tours, rather than the actual Lions tourists.

England will have uncovered some players, whilst already on Jones radar, who have proved to be good enough to compete for full squad places as a result of their Argentine success. Scotland, having very little input to the tour will have solidified their squad, at the very least. For both Ireland and Wales there is little benefit I feel.

One unintended consequence of a Lion's tour is that it tends to 'finish-off earlier' those players approaching the end of their international careers. As such, for Wales I reckon it's "Adios Amigo" to AWJ with possibly Warburton, Halfpenny and George North being phased out and replaced by others.

Hopefully, one positive to come out of this is the death of Warrenball...but we'll see.


Why would Warburton be pushed out?

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Sat Jul 15, 2017 5:57 pm
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Post Re: Which home nation can take the most from the Lions?
Langland Exile wrote:
Donkka wrote:
Concur with the above posters. Any 'benefits' associated with the Lion's for the home nations will be most felt by the supposed second-string players as shown on their respective tours, rather than the actual Lions tourists.

England will have uncovered some players, whilst already on Jones radar, who have proved to be good enough to compete for full squad places as a result of their Argentine success. Scotland, having very little input to the tour will have solidified their squad, at the very least. For both Ireland and Wales there is little benefit I feel.

One unintended consequence of a Lion's tour is that it tends to 'finish-off earlier' those players approaching the end of their international careers. As such, for Wales I reckon it's "Adios Amigo" to AWJ with possibly Warburton, Halfpenny and George North being phased out and replaced by others.

Hopefully, one positive to come out of this is the death of Warrenball...but we'll see.


Why would Warburton be pushed out?


Or North. He hasn't been that great recently and I wouldn't rank him as a choice NH winger but I think a large part of that is down to playing for Wales. I think North for England, where he would get the ball more often, would show class again. The problem is North looked good in a dominant Wales because they "earned the right" to go wide and so he saw the ball more. Since Wales has been figured out, he has seen the ball less and less. I'd like him to play like Nowell, wander off his wing and hit lines in midfield and around the ruck more often. Obviously he plays to the plan and Wales don't use him this way but I think this is how he would be best used.

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Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:17 pm
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Post Re: Which home nation can take the most from the Lions?
Why would anyone be phased out? ... it is a ridiculous notion in the first place.

New players make themselves apparent and the team sheet is obvious.


Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:18 pm
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Post Re: Which home nation can take the most from the Lions?
I think its Scotland, none of their players have been ragged rotten in the name of , err, a name

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Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:21 pm
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Post Re: Which home nation can take the most from the Lions?
LLanrumneyOik wrote:
Why would anyone be phased out? ... it is a ridiculous notion in the first place.

New players make themselves apparent and the team sheet is obvious.


I would agree normally but I feel the Welsh management almost sets up the new names to fail, they will go from being ultra conservative to throwing all the youngsters in at once and then when the youngsters don't perform as well as the seniors, use it as proof that they aren't good enough and revert back to how they were before.

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Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:25 pm
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Post Re: Which home nation can take the most from the Lions?
Troron wrote:
LLanrumneyOik wrote:
Why would anyone be phased out? ... it is a ridiculous notion in the first place.

New players make themselves apparent and the team sheet is obvious.


I would agree normally but I feel the Welsh management almost sets up the new names to fail, they will go from being ultra conservative to throwing all the youngsters in at once and then when the youngsters don't perform as well as the seniors, use it as proof that they aren't good enough and revert back to how they were before.


That is such a total load of bolux I wonder where you come from.

If you are talking about the likes of Arwel Thomas then blame 'Wales on Line'.

Not us, WRU or anyone else.


Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:01 pm
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Post Re: Which home nation can take the most from the Lions?
The Welsh public destroy young players, how many times have we heard new Barry John or some such rubbish?

Wales's biggest problem is being Welsh.

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Sat Jul 15, 2017 7:23 pm
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Post Re: Which home nation can take the most from the Lions?
Troron wrote:
The problem is North looked good in a dominant Wales because they "earned the right" to go wide and so he saw the ball more. Since Wales has been figured out, he has seen the ball less and less. I'd like him to play like Nowell, wander off his wing and hit lines in midfield and around the ruck more often. Obviously he plays to the plan and Wales don't use him this way but I think this is how he would be best used.


Absolutely! I've been saying this since the previous Lions tour. When North shows some gumption and actually goes looking for work he is exponentially more dangerous. It almost seems that the Welsh management tell him to sit on the wing and wait for the 3 or 4 times the ball comes his way in a match.

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Sat Jul 15, 2017 8:14 pm
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