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Gatland's fixation with Lions a disaster for Wales 
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Post Gatland's fixation with Lions a disaster for Wales
Since he focused on the Lions gig 4 years ago, Wales has won nothing and gone backwards. His focus should have been on Wales and not personal glory.

He calls up 4 Welsh players from a stretched Wales B squad and they just ended up sitting on the bench. I will be so angry if we get hammered on Friday.

Now what does he do?

Humiliates our captain Warburton. Has that ever happened before? I personally think the Lions backrow is not balanced enough and if New Zealand do manage to stretch the game then their lack of mobility, with a 6 and a half at openside will cost us. I am not arguing about Warburton's form/whether he deserves a spot. Just why or why did the muppet pick him as captain in the first place unless he was sure he'd play him under most scenarios.

Daly instead of North. Now I know North is out of form but Daly? I know he does not make mistakes but seriously he is not very big and besides pace he has the fear factor of a paper bag. I could understand Nowell getting the nod ahead of North, someone who can be dangerous, but to play a utility player on the wing! You may as well play Halfpenny there! Halfpenny is a much better kicker than Farrell too.

Owens on the bench - maybe justified but not by much. Gatland making sure he is making the difficult calls by going with the alternative to a Welsh player!

Farrell gets in thanks to daddy. Seriously - has he done much? Surely Sexton on balance given his familiarity with Murray and the fact Farrell has had an injury, if nothing else. New Zealand would have been far more concerned about the unpredicability of Sexton.

The one lucky call is Wyn Jones. If anyone deserved to miss out from the Welsh players than he is arguably one of them.

I can see the Welsh players responding very badly to this next season. I hope if that is the case that he leaves quickly and takes his inadequate coaching staff (except Edwards) with him.


Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:51 pm
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Post Re: Gatland's fixation with Lions a disaster for Wales
So you wanted more Welsh players just because they are Welsh? Owens, North, Warburton..........

or a few less English could be?


Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:02 pm
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Post Re: Gatland's fixation with Lions a disaster for Wales
RedCard wrote:
So you wanted more Welsh players just because they are Welsh? Owens, North, Warburton..........

or a few less English could be?


No - I stated Wyn Jones should probably have been on the bench. My perspective is a Welsh one. Henry lost the Welsh dressing room after the Lions tour. My concern is that these calls (rights or wrong) will lead to discontent next season. Why are we providing the coaches so much. It should be rotated. I hope the WRU start insisting our coaches focus on their day job.

As I said I really don't get Daly. No doubt a great utility player with a quick rugby brain (good benech option) but an out and out winger I don't think so.


Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:11 pm
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Post Re: Gatland's fixation with Lions a disaster for Wales
Interesting thoughts,

myself I always thought it would be one of Farrell and Sexton, both have impressed on this tour and have game management and nouse. Farrell has a exceptionally strong kicking game both out of hand and from the tee, no need for daddy influence when he is excellent across the board. 1/2penny in the squad has a chance to prove himself as an attacking threat, If/When he comes on he HAS to show he can contribute in attack as it has been missing for a long time, Likewise JD as he has butchered 2 chances and line breaks so far, against the ABs he may well get one chance, if he does he HAS to take it by making the line, JJ has proved he can do it, JD has to, if he butchers further chances he has to be dropped for the second test!

AWJ either had to start, otherwise it would of been Kruis, Itoje and Lawes/Henderson from the bench as they offer far more as an impact player.If he fails to perform though I would say that will be it for him as a test player as the other 4 really have shown how good they are.

Daly is a chance, but to be fair he has earnt it! North has had no form for longer than this tour. I am pleased for Williams he has earnt his opportunity also!

O'Mahoney is proved himself as a leader and SOB has been far more impressive than Warburton. Again Warbs has been anonymous and another anonymous performance should end his second test hopes, so pressure lays heavy on him.

My views have always been that there was a too heavy Welsh influence on this tour, and it is not being anti welsh as many have said, it was due to some of the players did not merit selection based on recent form or success. What this also has done is expose the lack of depth in the Welsh game, and damages the chances of the Welsh team against Samoa, and could well demotivate players as their lack of form is being exposed in the cauldron of NZ.

We will see how everyone goes


Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:16 pm
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Post Re: Gatland's fixation with Lions a disaster for Wales
wombles wrote:
Interesting thoughts,

myself I always thought it would be one of Farrell and Sexton, both have impressed on this tour and have game management and nouse. Farrell has a exceptionally strong kicking game both out of hand and from the tee, no need for daddy influence when he is excellent across the board. 1/2penny in the squad has a chance to prove himself as an attacking threat, If/When he comes on he HAS to show he can contribute in attack as it has been missing for a long time, Likewise JD as he has butchered 2 chances and line breaks so far, against the ABs he may well get one chance, if he does he HAS to take it by making the line, JJ has proved he can do it, JD has to, if he butchers further chances he has to be dropped for the second test!

AWJ either had to start, otherwise it would of been Kruis, Itoje and Lawes/Henderson from the bench as they offer far more as an impact player.If he fails to perform though I would say that will be it for him as a test player as the other 4 really have shown how good they are.

Daly is a chance, but to be fair he has earnt it! North has had no form for longer than this tour. I am pleased for Williams he has earnt his opportunity also!

O'Mahoney is proved himself as a leader and SOB has been far more impressive than Warburton. Again Warbs has been anonymous and another anonymous performance should end his second test hopes, so pressure lays heavy on him.

My views have always been that there was a too heavy Welsh influence on this tour, and it is not being anti welsh as many have said, it was due to some of the players did not merit selection based on recent form or success. What this also has done is expose the lack of depth in the Welsh game, and damages the chances of the Welsh team against Samoa, and could well demotivate players as their lack of form is being exposed in the cauldron of NZ.

We will see how everyone goes


I agree with the above.

I'm particularly pleased with the back 3.

Gatland when he arrived for Wales was ruthless and picked on form and ability
but in recent years has backed away from this with Wales?Why? Is there another
agenda for Gatters at home we are not privy too.Or is his support network here(Wales)
so pathetic (Gats fault if it is) that he is not contradicted.

Any which way I reckon this team is a really good and exciting call.

C'mon Lions


Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:28 pm
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Post Re: Gatland's fixation with Lions a disaster for Wales
Wish he had the balls to make the big calls for Wales. Not sure where these selections have come from. It does seem he sees this as his AB's job interview. Only way he will jump the list is to take it to them and go for it. Does leave a slightly sour taste though from a Welsh perspective .


Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:34 pm
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Post Re: Gatland's fixation with Lions a disaster for Wales
Welcome to those of us who were criticising exactly these point before the tour. Also AWJ's last name is Jones, not Wyn Jones. Wyn is a middle name like any other, it's not a double barreled surname.

To say Daly has the fear factor of a paper bag is just ridiculous. Sure he's not intimidating but he is much faster than North and to imply teams won't be wary of him is daft. Apart from a short flash of form on the last New Zealand tour, North has not had any form at all for getting on 4 years now, that same with most of the Welsh choices. Also Farrell is a similar level to 1/2P for range and kicking % so to say 1/2P is "Much better" is also daft. Farrell was one of the top 3 kickers in the world last year and I might even be so bold as to say he was the best.

Also the whole Farrell only gets in because of daddy is a tired old thing now, he has got it on merit. The only players who have got their positions because of friends on the coaching staff are some of the Welsh contingent.

Gatland has done neither the Lions nor Wales any favours here. However what is the excuse for Wales STILL not using some of the youngsters that have been hyped up even having this much dead wood taken out of their way?

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Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:36 pm
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Post Re: Gatland's fixation with Lions a disaster for Wales
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TEH

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Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:52 pm
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Post Re: Gatland's fixation with Lions a disaster for Wales
awaywardlad wrote:
wombles wrote:
Interesting thoughts,

myself I always thought it would be one of Farrell and Sexton, both have impressed on this tour and have game management and nouse. Farrell has a exceptionally strong kicking game both out of hand and from the tee, no need for daddy influence when he is excellent across the board. 1/2penny in the squad has a chance to prove himself as an attacking threat, If/When he comes on he HAS to show he can contribute in attack as it has been missing for a long time, Likewise JD as he has butchered 2 chances and line breaks so far, against the ABs he may well get one chance, if he does he HAS to take it by making the line, JJ has proved he can do it, JD has to, if he butchers further chances he has to be dropped for the second test!

AWJ either had to start, otherwise it would of been Kruis, Itoje and Lawes/Henderson from the bench as they offer far more as an impact player.If he fails to perform though I would say that will be it for him as a test player as the other 4 really have shown how good they are.

Daly is a chance, but to be fair he has earnt it! North has had no form for longer than this tour. I am pleased for Williams he has earnt his opportunity also!

O'Mahoney is proved himself as a leader and SOB has been far more impressive than Warburton. Again Warbs has been anonymous and another anonymous performance should end his second test hopes, so pressure lays heavy on him.

My views have always been that there was a too heavy Welsh influence on this tour, and it is not being anti welsh as many have said, it was due to some of the players did not merit selection based on recent form or success. What this also has done is expose the lack of depth in the Welsh game, and damages the chances of the Welsh team against Samoa, and could well demotivate players as their lack of form is being exposed in the cauldron of NZ.

We will see how everyone goes


I agree with the above.

I'm particularly pleased with the back 3.

Gatland when he arrived for Wales was ruthless and picked on form and ability
but in recent years has backed away from this with Wales?Why? Is there another
agenda for Gatters at home we are not privy too.Or is his support network here(Wales)
so pathetic (Gats fault if it is) that he is not contradicted.

Any which way I reckon this team is a really good and exciting call.

C'mon Lions


He had genuine choices to make when he took over the Wales job, and the results show he made good choices from the point of view of winning games - at least v Northern Hemisphere teams. At 9,10,12 for example.

Phillips/Jones/Roberts takes you in a very different direction than Peel/Hook/Henson. Not saying which is right or wrong, but they are very different.

Do Wales have the same options now? Maybe it is the coaching staff, but maybe we just had better players in that period 2008-12 than we have today.


Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:01 pm
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Post Re: Gatland's fixation with Lions a disaster for Wales
Tour kicking stats -

Halfpenny - 11/11
Farrell - 5/8
Daley - 0/1

I'd much rather see Sexton at 10 with Williams on the wing instead of Daley - big risk there I feel but we'll see - and 1/2p in at full back. Going into a test with an iffy kicker whose missed a couple of sitters and just back from injury is 'brave', especially when you have a first-class kicker there. Hope it doesn't backfire but at least he's on the bench if it does go tits-up.

Glad he's dropped North, yet to be convinced by T'eo but will give him the benefit of the doubt. He's gone for a 6&1/2 at openside but Sam doesn't deserve to start there so no gripe from me there.

I honestly think we're in danger of being out-muscled, not in the forwards but out wide in the backs. Still, the Nigels have got the wingers they wanted, now let's hope they show us what they can do.

Got to agree with the bookies, I just don't think there's the quality there to take this AB side. Happy to be proved wrong though and can't wait for Saturday.


Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:09 pm
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Post Re: Gatland's fixation with Lions a disaster for Wales
Donkka wrote:
Tour kicking stats -

Halfpenny - 11/11
Farrell - 5/8
Daley - 0/1

I'd much rather see Sexton at 10 with Williams on the wing instead of Daley - big risk there I feel but we'll see - and 1/2p in at full back. Going into a test with an iffy kicker whose missed a couple of sitters and just back from injury is 'brave', especially when you have a first-class kicker there. Hope it doesn't backfire but at least he's on the bench if it does go tits-up.

Glad he's dropped North, yet to be convinced by T'eo but will give him the benefit of the doubt. He's gone for a 6&1/2 at openside but Sam doesn't deserve to start there so no gripe from me there.

I honestly think we're in danger of being out-muscled, not in the forwards but out wide in the backs. Still, the Nigels have got the wingers they wanted, now let's hope they show us what they can do.

Got to agree with the bookies, I just don't think there's the quality there to take this AB side. Happy to be proved wrong though and can't wait for Saturday.


Have to get behind them now, but if Farrell misses the first kick at goal and Liam drops the first high ball ... well, there will be a few "told you so's" flying around from Halfpenny fans.


Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:15 pm
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Post Re: Gatland's fixation with Lions a disaster for Wales
Think maybe the above post should be in the 'Lion's Team' thread. Apologies.


Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:17 pm
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Post Re: Gatland's fixation with Lions a disaster for Wales
ABs on form will win, they have been together for longer, whereas the Lions have been together for a couple of weeks. Do I think we will win? no, do i think putting the form players in -Warbs aside, AWJ/Lawes 50/50 as is JD/JJ- is the right thing to do despite the result as it gives us the best chance, yes.


Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:22 pm
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Post Re: Gatland's fixation with Lions a disaster for Wales
A mystery solved????

If I remember correctly after his totally justified and vindicated
dropping of BOD for the 3rd test in Oz Wazza went home to Hamilton
for a break and fell off a ladder and injured himself.His injury wasn't
clearly explained and after a while he returned to us in Wales.

It's now obvious to me that when he fell off that ladder in 2013 he
lost his cojones which he found again this week when he went home
after the Chiefs game.

:clap:


Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:36 pm
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Post Re: Gatland's fixation with Lions a disaster for Wales
Farrell was the obvious starter.
North has shown no form - surprised by the call becsue Gatland favours him so much for Wales but agree with it.
Daley and Watson have both shown good form from the start so no complaints.
Daley has loked very dangerous and he is has good skill unlike North. Also a long boot if needed.
They will both be more dangerous.
By the way - Halfpenny was and would be great on the wing ...
Farrell is no where near as good a kicker as Halfpenny but we can't win by kicking so I am pleased.
He is on the bench and provides good Wing/Fullback cover.
Warburton - he is not humiliated - no one should be safe - surprised because Gatland likes him so much but many predicted it so no complaints. He is on the bench so hardly that big a call.
Liam Williams/Halfpenny - again surprised becuase he has favoured Halfpenny so many times over Liam for Wales but I am delighted because most of us have been screaming for this change for years - he is the better attacking choice. He also proved that in the last game.
AWJ - I thought he would be on the bench but he proved what a leader he is when he came on last game.
T'eo was the obvious choice and a shoe in.
J Davies was the obvious choice.

For once - Gatland has been brave and chosen on form. These are better attacking choices especially back 3.

Remember - he will change things up if we don't win the first test.

Troron - you have such a chip on your shoulder mate .. jesus .. get over it.


Wed Jun 21, 2017 10:43 pm
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