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Wales players oblivious to law changes 
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Post Re: Wales players oblivious to law changes
Cymru am byth wrote:
mr messy wrote:
Blindside wrote:
Cymru am byth wrote:
Stroud Wizard wrote:
In response to request for clarification on kicking to touch from penalty after full time the lineout will now be taken rather than the whistle being blown for full time.

Some other interesting law changes are as follows:
The one (only one?) which the Welsh team was not aware of was an automatic seven points for a penalty try without any conversion having to be taken;
Uncontested scrums for whatever reason must now have eight players from each side;
Last season if a player caught a ball which was still in the field of play but that player placed a foot in touch when he caught it the throw in would be awarded to the team of the player who caught the ball. It now goes to the opposition who kicked the ball. Similar changes, apply to try line, 22 and deadball area.

Ignorance of such law changes could affect the result of a match.

Again unbelievable that players have not been made aware of changes and have not bothered to find out for themselves.


To be fair to some of them. They had not played at this level before, and the rules are very new. The 7 points for a penalty try is neither here nor there as a olayer's knowledge of the automatic conversion is unlikely to inpact the game. Sure, they should have known it but they had other things to concentrate on.



Exactly ! not knowing something that does not effect an outcome is not the end of the world :dontknow:


it would take 2 seconds to explain that law though. and if players didn't know that law, what other laws do players not know? This is just another example of players and coaches moving to far away from under standing the game to prescribed playing by numbers.

look at the try australia scored against wales in the autumn. Oz kicked ahead, wales passed it, and davies didn't understand the offside rule. as he was passed the ball and run 10m the oz players were on side, and he passed it straight to their 2nd row for a run in under posts.

england and the ruck against italy, players standing off lineouts when one has already gone in. you don't know what you don't know but that shouldn't happen at international level when there's a finite amount of things to know.


Oh come on! If professional players don't know the rules, no one does. In the heat of the game, it is easy to forget new rule changes.

Of course these llayers were informed but as they probably hadn't encountered it before they probably forgot. I fail to see how not knowing whether a penalty try is worth 7 rather than 5 and a kick has any impact on the game. The ref would simply have told the player attenpting the kick to leave the ball where it was and stand in his half. Play couldn't continue until this was done.


wood for the trees.

it took you longer to the that post than it took to tell them you don't have to take the conversion.

they are professional rugby players. they should know the rules / laws that is their day to day job.

jamie roberts is a qualified doctor but can't remember you don't need to take a conversion for a penalty try? seriously?

it's not the 2 points thats the issue. its the fact that they didn't know. what else don't they know to do their day job? stop making excuses and acceptance of failure to know their jobs.

its not just about not taking the kick, play starts back quicker. the defending team can go straight up and kick off. the team who has just scored (wales in this case), may not be switched on, ready for the start, probably standing round drinking from bottles.

if they don't know this basic simple rule, what others don't they know? do you tell the props about a rolling ball in the dead ball line? they haven't told the kicker about not kicking.


Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:06 pm
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Post Re: Wales players oblivious to law changes
mr messy wrote:
Cymru am byth wrote:
mr messy wrote:
Blindside wrote:
Cymru am byth wrote:
Stroud Wizard wrote:
In response to request for clarification on kicking to touch from penalty after full time the lineout will now be taken rather than the whistle being blown for full time.

Some other interesting law changes are as follows:
The one (only one?) which the Welsh team was not aware of was an automatic seven points for a penalty try without any conversion having to be taken;
Uncontested scrums for whatever reason must now have eight players from each side;
Last season if a player caught a ball which was still in the field of play but that player placed a foot in touch when he caught it the throw in would be awarded to the team of the player who caught the ball. It now goes to the opposition who kicked the ball. Similar changes, apply to try line, 22 and deadball area.

Ignorance of such law changes could affect the result of a match.

Again unbelievable that players have not been made aware of changes and have not bothered to find out for themselves.


To be fair to some of them. They had not played at this level before, and the rules are very new. The 7 points for a penalty try is neither here nor there as a olayer's knowledge of the automatic conversion is unlikely to inpact the game. Sure, they should have known it but they had other things to concentrate on.



Exactly ! not knowing something that does not effect an outcome is not the end of the world :dontknow:


it would take 2 seconds to explain that law though. and if players didn't know that law, what other laws do players not know? This is just another example of players and coaches moving to far away from under standing the game to prescribed playing by numbers.

look at the try australia scored against wales in the autumn. Oz kicked ahead, wales passed it, and davies didn't understand the offside rule. as he was passed the ball and run 10m the oz players were on side, and he passed it straight to their 2nd row for a run in under posts.

england and the ruck against italy, players standing off lineouts when one has already gone in. you don't know what you don't know but that shouldn't happen at international level when there's a finite amount of things to know.


Oh come on! If professional players don't know the rules, no one does. In the heat of the game, it is easy to forget new rule changes.

Of course these llayers were informed but as they probably hadn't encountered it before they probably forgot. I fail to see how not knowing whether a penalty try is worth 7 rather than 5 and a kick has any impact on the game. The ref would simply have told the player attenpting the kick to leave the ball where it was and stand in his half. Play couldn't continue until this was done.


wood for the trees.

it took you longer to the that post than it took to tell them you don't have to take the conversion.

they are professional rugby players. they should know the rules / laws that is their day to day job.

jamie roberts is a qualified doctor but can't remember you don't need to take a conversion for a penalty try? seriously?

it's not the 2 points thats the issue. its the fact that they didn't know. what else don't they know to do their day job? stop making excuses and acceptance of failure to know their jobs.

its not just about not taking the kick, play starts back quicker. the defending team can go straight up and kick off. the team who has just scored (wales in this case), may not be switched on, ready for the start, probably standing round drinking from bottles.

if they don't know this basic simple rule, what others don't they know? do you tell the props about a rolling ball in the dead ball line? they haven't told the kicker about not kicking.


As you say, Roberts is a doctor. He has pribably read the new rules. My argument is that he forgot it and it made no difference.


Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:26 pm
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Post Re: Wales players oblivious to law changes
In that case he is not fit to be captain representing a country as he had to have the rule explained to him again by the ref.

How can you forget the easiest rule they brought in?


Tue Jun 20, 2017 2:50 pm
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Post Re: Wales players oblivious to law changes
It's a daft argument to me ..... some players don't even have a particularly great understanding of the game , yet they play it to a very high standard because they do what they do :dontknow: Not knowing something that makes not a jot of difference if you do or not is of no consequence, it may be surprising, but so what. :scratch:

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Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:38 pm
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Post Re: Wales players oblivious to law changes
Blindside wrote:
It's a daft argument to me ..... some players don't even have a particularly great understanding of the game , yet they play it to a very high standard because they do what they do :dontknow: Not knowing something that makes not a jot of difference if you do or not is of no consequence, it may be surprising, but so what. :scratch:


on another thread you mentioned devaluing the lions jersey by selecting players not worthy, yet you're happy for the welsh national captain to represent the country while not knowing about a simple basic rule change that would take 2 seconds to explain?

we're not talking about club players here, or even international players who have never even seen a kicking tee, shirley we expect some basic level of standards from the captain and kicker in knowing about taking a kick?


Tue Jun 20, 2017 3:56 pm
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Post Re: Wales players oblivious to law changes
mr messy wrote:
Blindside wrote:
It's a daft argument to me ..... some players don't even have a particularly great understanding of the game , yet they play it to a very high standard because they do what they do :dontknow: Not knowing something that makes not a jot of difference if you do or not is of no consequence, it may be surprising, but so what. :scratch:


on another thread you mentioned devaluing the lions jersey by selecting players not worthy, yet you're happy for the welsh national captain to represent the country while not knowing about a simple basic rule change that would take 2 seconds to explain?

we're not talking about club players here, or even international players who have never even seen a kicking tee, shirley we expect some basic level of standards from the captain and kicker in knowing about taking a kick?



Perhaps there should be a written test a bit like you do with your driving test before you can be awarded a cap :D . As not to devalue a jersey kind of thing. The basic standard i would expect from my kicker is that he can kick it over if required. Now some kickers may know the desired inflation pressure per square inch, nearly all kickers put the receiver for the adaptor at the front of the ball as it flys truer (apparently), some kickers understand the science behind the placement of the foot and the follow through and weight transfer in the kicking process. However the best kicker is still the guy who's percentages indicate he will put over the important kicks t the crucial time.

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Tue Jun 20, 2017 5:47 pm
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Post Re: Wales players oblivious to law changes
Blindside wrote:


Perhaps there should be a written test a bit like you do with your driving test before you can be awarded a cap :D . As not to devalue a jersey kind of thing. The basic standard i would expect from my kicker is that he can kick it over if required. Now some kickers may know the desired inflation pressure per square inch, nearly all kickers put the receiver for the adaptor at the front of the ball as it flys truer (apparently), some kickers understand the science behind the placement of the foot and the follow through and weight transfer in the kicking process. However the best kicker is still the guy who's percentages indicate he will put over the important kicks t the crucial time.


that's a good idea. if you are captain of your rugby nation, while representing you country you should read the notice of the 5 new law changes that have come into effect so you can show the required professionalism of your role.

agree with the 2nd part aswell. the best rugby players are the ones who understand the game, so knowledge is important.


Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:07 pm
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Post Re: Wales players oblivious to law changes
mr messy wrote:
Blindside wrote:


Perhaps there should be a written test a bit like you do with your driving test before you can be awarded a cap :D . As not to devalue a jersey kind of thing. The basic standard i would expect from my kicker is that he can kick it over if required. Now some kickers may know the desired inflation pressure per square inch, nearly all kickers put the receiver for the adaptor at the front of the ball as it flys truer (apparently), some kickers understand the science behind the placement of the foot and the follow through and weight transfer in the kicking process. However the best kicker is still the guy who's percentages indicate he will put over the important kicks t the crucial time.


that's a good idea. if you are captain of your rugby nation, while representing you country you should read the notice of the 5 new law changes that have come into effect so you can show the required professionalism of your role.

agree with the 2nd part aswell. the best rugby players are the ones who understand the game, so knowledge is important.




You miss the point, the best rugby players are the best rugby players. Dai Morris is a legend in Wales, he would readily admit his knowledge of rugby is far less than his knowledge of horses. He played for Rhigos into his forties, but im not sure how much even Dai new about being a great player, other than the fact he was. You are trying to stack things neatly into rows and it doesnt always work like that. I would be shocked if players at any sort of standard did not know the change in catching the ball while your foot is in touch etc, becuase it is likely to affect outcomes, so the coach must inform them and ensure they know. But i don't think he/she will worry about the change in the penalty try rule, as it really changes very little.

It obviously does no harm to know everything but players often dont, but not knowing something that does not effect you to any meaningful extent, is kind of not worth making a fuss about. That is what i will now do, stop discussing it :)

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Tue Jun 20, 2017 6:38 pm
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Post Re: Wales players oblivious to law changes
mr messy wrote:
In that case he is not fit to be captain representing a country as he had to have the rule explained to him again by the ref.

How can you forget the easiest rule they brought in?



Did you see Italy screwing england a little while back?

The reff ruined the game by explaining the rules to the english.

england won the Championship .... knowing far less than our Captain.

Don't be so harsh Mun.


As for your imperative that the captain know the laws .. well Eddie Jones didn't know them either.


Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:57 pm
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Post Re: Wales players oblivious to law changes
The best rugby players that know the rules are better than the best rugby players who don't know the rules.
Not knowing a rule can cost a team the match even not knowing you don't need to take a conversion after a penalty try might mean the opposition take a quick re-start before you've had time to organize. The captain didn't forget the rule he didn't know it existed.

A couple of seasons ago an opposition prop was sin binned. Wales captain Warburton instructed his fly half to kick to touch from the penalty. If he knew the rules and if other senior players did also then the better option was a scrum which would have meant the opposition replacing their no6 for a prop resulting in Wales plying an opposition with only 2 back row forwards for 10 minutes.


Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:13 pm
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Post Re: Wales players oblivious to law changes
Oh would that players were robots with infallible artificial intelligence.

Life just isn't like that thank goodness.


Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:25 pm
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Post Re: Wales players oblivious to law changes
LLanrumneyOik wrote:
Oh would that players were robots with infallible artificial intelligence.

Life just isn't like that thank goodness.

So don't worry if we're less than competent as everyone else will be as well.
It's that sort of mentality that's made Welsh rugby great.


Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:12 pm
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Post Re: Wales players oblivious to law changes
For professional players ..

Having a written or oral test for the rules is a good idea.
As professionals they should be able to pass easily.
They should test for tactial appreciation as well ...
They should also test for nutrition etc and everything else they SHOULD know about.

All players should have their rugby awareness tested and improved if it is lacking.
You would probably end up with a more coherent team.

It amazes me there is nothing in place already .... amateurs :D


Wed Jun 21, 2017 2:48 pm
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Post Re: Wales players oblivious to law changes
welshy34 wrote:
For professional players ..

Having a written or oral test for the rules is a good idea.
As professionals they should be able to pass easily.
They should test for tactial appreciation as well ...
They should also test for nutrition etc and everything else they SHOULD know about.

All players should have their rugby awareness tested and improved if it is lacking.
You would probably end up with a more coherent team.

It amazes me there is nothing in place already .... amateurs :D


I'm not sure if you are joking. Apologies if you are but given some of the comments on here, my point here still stands.

Surely by virtue of the fact that they are playing well enough to be considered international players is testimony of their ability to understand the rules.

Knowing what the rules are is the fundamental of what a sport is about - knowing what you need to do and how is what makes a player good. Or put another way, any player who consistently *fups* up in their understanding of the basic laws of a game is NOT a good player and won't get picked in the first place.

On that basis. Other than the minor and irrelevant point about knowing that a penalty try does not need a kick. How often at regional level and above do you see players constantly *fupping* up the understanding of the laws of the game? I would argue, never. The only consistent offenses are at the breakdown and the offside, and this relates bot so much of a lack of understanding of the rules but a cynicism to try and illegally bend the rules and the refs interpretation.


Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:41 pm
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Post Re: Wales players oblivious to law changes
Cymru am byth wrote:
welshy34 wrote:
For professional players ..

Having a written or oral test for the rules is a good idea.
As professionals they should be able to pass easily.
They should test for tactial appreciation as well ...
They should also test for nutrition etc and everything else they SHOULD know about.

All players should have their rugby awareness tested and improved if it is lacking.
You would probably end up with a more coherent team.

It amazes me there is nothing in place already .... amateurs :D


I'm not sure if you are joking. Apologies if you are but given some of the comments on here, my point here still stands.

Surely by virtue of the fact that they are playing well enough to be considered international players is testimony of their ability to understand the rules.

Knowing what the rules are is the fundamental of what a sport is about - knowing what you need to do and how is what makes a player good. Or put another way, any player who consistently *fups* up in their understanding of the basic laws of a game is NOT a good player and won't get picked in the first place.

On that basis. Other than the minor and irrelevant point about knowing that a penalty try does not need a kick. How often at regional level and above do you see players constantly *fupping* up the understanding of the laws of the game? I would argue, never. The only consistent offenses are at the breakdown and the offside, and this relates bot so much of a lack of understanding of the rules but a cynicism to try and illegally bend the rules and the refs interpretation.


I may be smiling as I speak but I am not joking. :D
I am placing it in a wider context of game awareness and knowledge of all rules.

What about the number of times you see players offside unable to resist catching the ball instead of letting it go .. ??
Once in a game is too much when it's professional.

What about when teams take a quick penalty tap and opposing players are not 10 and interfere.

You might argue that they know that rule but forgot it in the moment.
If so - it's clearly not INGRAINED enough for them to resist.
They should practise knowing, in the moment, under pressure.

Knowing the rule and knowing why it is WORSE for the team to interfere, is a level of awareness that they should all have.
They should KNOW the rules at an INSTINCTUAL level so that in the moment it is natural.
If they can't even recall it when NOT under pressure it won't be there when they ARE under pressure.
I couldn't help myself is no excuse.

I'm sure if I sat down and thought about it for a while I could come up with several examples but life is far too short.

No excuse for lack of preparation or knowledge in their profession.


Wed Jun 21, 2017 5:54 pm
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