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Wales players oblivious to law changes 
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Post Re: Wales players oblivious to law changes
Complete crap ....... If a guy smokes 200 cigarettes a day, drinks too much and lives off Mc Donalds then as long as attends training, then if he is a better player than the Sam Warburton clone who has a dietician and helps old ladies across the street, then he plays, FULL *fupping* STOP.

Now if he didnt smoke, didnt drink, didnt eat shit, then he may well be a far better player, but if he wont change, then its all down to what he brings to that table when he plays.

If not knowing or sticking to rules means it affects your game, then that affects you as a player, it is easier for other players to be better than you. Any weakness, size, intelligence, strength, pace, kicking ability, tackling ability, etc, is weighed up and compared to other players competing for that position. But the equation results in who will give you the best chance of winning.

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Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:13 pm
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Post Re: Wales players oblivious to law changes
welshy34 wrote:
Cymru am byth wrote:
welshy34 wrote:
For professional players ..

Having a written or oral test for the rules is a good idea.
As professionals they should be able to pass easily.
They should test for tactial appreciation as well ...
They should also test for nutrition etc and everything else they SHOULD know about.

All players should have their rugby awareness tested and improved if it is lacking.
You would probably end up with a more coherent team.

It amazes me there is nothing in place already .... amateurs :D


I'm not sure if you are joking. Apologies if you are but given some of the comments on here, my point here still stands.

Surely by virtue of the fact that they are playing well enough to be considered international players is testimony of their ability to understand the rules.

Knowing what the rules are is the fundamental of what a sport is about - knowing what you need to do and how is what makes a player good. Or put another way, any player who consistently *fups* up in their understanding of the basic laws of a game is NOT a good player and won't get picked in the first place.

On that basis. Other than the minor and irrelevant point about knowing that a penalty try does not need a kick. How often at regional level and above do you see players constantly *fupping* up the understanding of the laws of the game? I would argue, never. The only consistent offenses are at the breakdown and the offside, and this relates bot so much of a lack of understanding of the rules but a cynicism to try and illegally bend the rules and the refs interpretation.


I may be smiling as I speak but I am not joking. :D
I am placing it in a wider context of game awareness and knowledge of all rules.

What about the number of times you see players offside unable to resist catching the ball instead of letting it go .. ??
Once in a game is too much when it's professional.

What about when teams take a quick penalty tap and opposing players are not 10 and interfere.

You might argue that they know that rule but forgot it in the moment.
If so - it's clearly not INGRAINED enough for them to resist.
They should practise knowing, in the moment, under pressure.

Knowing the rule and knowing why it is WORSE for the team to interfere, is a level of awareness that they should all have.
They should KNOW the rules at an INSTINCTUAL level so that in the moment it is natural.
If they can't even recall it when NOT under pressure it won't be there when they ARE under pressure.
I couldn't help myself is no excuse.

I'm sure if I sat down and thought about it for a while I could come up with several examples but life is far too short.

No excuse for lack of preparation or knowledge in their profession.


I would argue that the stupid mistakes you mention are down to the grey area in the game. All too often players bend the rules and get away with.

Ok, I concede there are some players who do make some stupid errors, I think Blindside summed it up (at least this is what I believe he said) is that even if a player is a penalty machine, it may be beneficial to have him in the team if he is better than everyone else.

Clearly there are some on here who know all of the rules, but I defy anyone most of the rule buffs to get picked above a regional or international player with the worst disciplinary record.


Wed Jun 21, 2017 7:37 pm
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Post Re: Wales players oblivious to law changes
Blindside wrote:
Complete crap ....... If a guy smokes 200 cigarettes a day, drinks too much and lives off Mc Donalds then as long as attends training, then if he is a better player than the Sam Warburton clone who has a dietician and helps old ladies across the street, then he plays, FULL *fupping* STOP.

Now if he didnt smoke, didnt drink, didnt eat shit, then he may well be a far better player, but if he wont change, then its all down to what he brings to that table when he plays.

If not knowing or sticking to rules means it affects your game, then that affects you as a player, it is easier for other players to be better than you. Any weakness, size, intelligence, strength, pace, kicking ability, tackling ability, etc, is weighed up and compared to other players competing for that position. But the equation results in who will give you the best chance of winning.


Crucially your logic depends on a rugby culture where professional players aren't pushed to improve their knowledge of the rules. Once players are pushed then a good and comprehensive knowledge of rules becomes a playing attribute along side the size, intelligence, strength, pace, kicking ability, tackling ability, etc, you mention.

Knowledge of the rules is obviously already part of the tool bag of players.
The only logic for not improving the skill is if you assume every other team will not either. We know all teams do work on improving all those attributes you mentioned so it is stupid to imagine knowledge of the rules is somehow the exception and no team will therefore make efforts to improve it.


Thu Jun 22, 2017 10:49 am
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Post Re: Wales players oblivious to law changes
eog wrote:
Blindside wrote:
Complete crap ....... If a guy smokes 200 cigarettes a day, drinks too much and lives off Mc Donalds then as long as attends training, then if he is a better player than the Sam Warburton clone who has a dietician and helps old ladies across the street, then he plays, FULL *fupping* STOP.

Now if he didnt smoke, didnt drink, didnt eat shit, then he may well be a far better player, but if he wont change, then its all down to what he brings to that table when he plays.

If not knowing or sticking to rules means it affects your game, then that affects you as a player, it is easier for other players to be better than you. Any weakness, size, intelligence, strength, pace, kicking ability, tackling ability, etc, is weighed up and compared to other players competing for that position. But the equation results in who will give you the best chance of winning.


Crucially your logic depends on a rugby culture where professional players aren't pushed to improve their knowledge of the rules. Once players are pushed then a good and comprehensive knowledge of rules becomes a playing attribute along side the size, intelligence, strength, pace, kicking ability, tackling ability, etc, you mention.

Knowledge of the rules is obviously already part of the tool bag of players.
The only logic for not improving the skill is if you assume every other team will not either. We know all teams do work on improving all those attributes you mentioned so it is stupid to imagine knowledge of the rules is somehow the exception and no team will therefore make efforts to improve it.


Exactly.
If it gives you one percent more then as a professional you SHOULD be striving for it.
Someone else already is ...


Thu Jun 22, 2017 11:36 am
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Post Re: Wales players oblivious to law changes
welshy34 wrote:
eog wrote:
Blindside wrote:
Complete crap ....... If a guy smokes 200 cigarettes a day, drinks too much and lives off Mc Donalds then as long as attends training, then if he is a better player than the Sam Warburton clone who has a dietician and helps old ladies across the street, then he plays, FULL *fupping* STOP.

Now if he didnt smoke, didnt drink, didnt eat shit, then he may well be a far better player, but if he wont change, then its all down to what he brings to that table when he plays.

If not knowing or sticking to rules means it affects your game, then that affects you as a player, it is easier for other players to be better than you. Any weakness, size, intelligence, strength, pace, kicking ability, tackling ability, etc, is weighed up and compared to other players competing for that position. But the equation results in who will give you the best chance of winning.


Crucially your logic depends on a rugby culture where professional players aren't pushed to improve their knowledge of the rules. Once players are pushed then a good and comprehensive knowledge of rules becomes a playing attribute along side the size, intelligence, strength, pace, kicking ability, tackling ability, etc, you mention.

Knowledge of the rules is obviously already part of the tool bag of players.
The only logic for not improving the skill is if you assume every other team will not either. We know all teams do work on improving all those attributes you mentioned so it is stupid to imagine knowledge of the rules is somehow the exception and no team will therefore make efforts to improve it.


Exactly.
If it gives you one percent more then as a professional you SHOULD be striving for it.
Someone else already is ...



Thats not the issue, or the point of the debate though, it is conceded that players should strive to be the best they can, coaches should encourage them.

Ultimately the only test that matters is on the field and if your 1% better than then your 1% better.

As a player, i may not know every rule i should and that may affect my performance, but the point i if im still the best player! Are you going to pick the worst player, because im thick ? Your just putting a wish list out there and saying how things should be. If your picking the best side, all that matters is what you are!

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“None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free.”
"The price of anything is the amount of life you exchange for


Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:18 pm
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Post Re: Wales players oblivious to law changes
Blindside wrote:
welshy34 wrote:
eog wrote:
Blindside wrote:
Complete crap ....... If a guy smokes 200 cigarettes a day, drinks too much and lives off Mc Donalds then as long as attends training, then if he is a better player than the Sam Warburton clone who has a dietician and helps old ladies across the street, then he plays, FULL *fupping* STOP.

Now if he didnt smoke, didnt drink, didnt eat shit, then he may well be a far better player, but if he wont change, then its all down to what he brings to that table when he plays.

If not knowing or sticking to rules means it affects your game, then that affects you as a player, it is easier for other players to be better than you. Any weakness, size, intelligence, strength, pace, kicking ability, tackling ability, etc, is weighed up and compared to other players competing for that position. But the equation results in who will give you the best chance of winning.


Crucially your logic depends on a rugby culture where professional players aren't pushed to improve their knowledge of the rules. Once players are pushed then a good and comprehensive knowledge of rules becomes a playing attribute along side the size, intelligence, strength, pace, kicking ability, tackling ability, etc, you mention.

Knowledge of the rules is obviously already part of the tool bag of players.
The only logic for not improving the skill is if you assume every other team will not either. We know all teams do work on improving all those attributes you mentioned so it is stupid to imagine knowledge of the rules is somehow the exception and no team will therefore make efforts to improve it.


Exactly.
If it gives you one percent more then as a professional you SHOULD be striving for it.
Someone else already is ...



Thats not the issue, or the point of the debate though, it is conceded that players should strive to be the best they can, coaches should encourage them.

Ultimately the only test that matters is on the field and if your 1% better than then your 1% better.

As a player, i may not know every rule i should and that may affect my performance, but the point i if im still the best player! Are you going to pick the worst player, because im thick ? Your just putting a wish list out there and saying how things should be. If your picking the best side, all that matters is what you are!


I do see the point you are making but ..

Nope - it doesn't matter what you are. All that matters is that you are the best you can be. (Excuse the cheese)


Thu Jun 22, 2017 2:25 pm
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Post Re: Wales players oblivious to law changes
Blindside wrote:
Thats not the issue, or the point of the debate though, it is conceded that players should strive to be the best they can, coaches should encourage them.

Ultimately the only test that matters is on the field and if your 1% better than then your 1% better. The only place the rules of rugby do matter is on the field :roll:

As a player, i may not know every rule i should and that may affect my performance, but the point i if im still the best player! Unless you're playing for the Lions this Saturday you're very likely not to be the best player (in the British Isles). :) Are you going to pick the worst player, because im thick ? Your just putting a wish list out there and saying how things should be. If your picking the best side, all that matters is what you are!


You don't seem to be able to grasp that knowledge of the rules is already part of the essential list. Also compared to tactical awareness/speed etc it's one of those things on the list that can be improved without a lot of effort. I don't know what level of rugby you play at but whatever it is you make a decision as to how much time an effort you put into preparing yourself to play and studying the rules might be something you decide you can afford to leave out.
But and it's a big BUT if you are a full time highly paid international standard rugby player you bloody well should be spending time in learning and studying and keeping up with rule changes. And there is no excuse for not doing so


Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:11 pm
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Post Re: Wales players oblivious to law changes
eog wrote:
Blindside wrote:
Thats not the issue, or the point of the debate though, it is conceded that players should strive to be the best they can, coaches should encourage them.

Ultimately the only test that matters is on the field and if your 1% better than then your 1% better. The only place the rules of rugby do matter is on the field :roll:

As a player, i may not know every rule i should and that may affect my performance, but the point i if im still the best player! Unless you're playing for the Lions this Saturday you're very likely not to be the best player (in the British Isles). :) Are you going to pick the worst player, because im thick ? Your just putting a wish list out there and saying how things should be. If your picking the best side, all that matters is what you are!


You don't seem to be able to grasp that knowledge of the rules is already part of the essential list. Also compared to tactical awareness/speed etc it's one of those things on the list that can be improved without a lot of effort. I don't know what level of rugby you play at but whatever it is you make a decision as to how much time an effort you put into preparing yourself to play and studying the rules might be something you decide you can afford to leave out.
But and it's a big BUT if you are a full time highly paid international standard rugby player you bloody well should be spending time in learning and studying and keeping up with rule changes. And there is no excuse for not doing so



Its you that cant grasp this .... knowledge of a rule that does not effect outcomes is a pointless argument. Of course its essential to know the rules, you couldnt play the game ffs.
The point is this not knowing you no longer have to take a kick from point blank range is no reflection on you as a rugby player. Its a bit like my mrs telling me shes gone down the coop and i nod, two minutes later im wondering where the *fupp* she is.....so what, does that make me a shit husband :D ! Im not sure what level you've been involved with but the fact you focus on such a pointless issue says a great deal :D That fact im bothering to debating it with you probably points to me being a bit of a knob to mind :shock:

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“None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free.”
"The price of anything is the amount of life you exchange for


Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:36 pm
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Post Re: Wales players oblivious to law changes
welshy34 wrote:
Blindside wrote:
welshy34 wrote:
eog wrote:
Blindside wrote:
Complete crap ....... If a guy smokes 200 cigarettes a day, drinks too much and lives off Mc Donalds then as long as attends training, then if he is a better player than the Sam Warburton clone who has a dietician and helps old ladies across the street, then he plays, FULL *fupping* STOP.

Now if he didnt smoke, didnt drink, didnt eat shit, then he may well be a far better player, but if he wont change, then its all down to what he brings to that table when he plays.

If not knowing or sticking to rules means it affects your game, then that affects you as a player, it is easier for other players to be better than you. Any weakness, size, intelligence, strength, pace, kicking ability, tackling ability, etc, is weighed up and compared to other players competing for that position. But the equation results in who will give you the best chance of winning.


Crucially your logic depends on a rugby culture where professional players aren't pushed to improve their knowledge of the rules. Once players are pushed then a good and comprehensive knowledge of rules becomes a playing attribute along side the size, intelligence, strength, pace, kicking ability, tackling ability, etc, you mention.

Knowledge of the rules is obviously already part of the tool bag of players.
The only logic for not improving the skill is if you assume every other team will not either. We know all teams do work on improving all those attributes you mentioned so it is stupid to imagine knowledge of the rules is somehow the exception and no team will therefore make efforts to improve it.


Exactly.
If it gives you one percent more then as a professional you SHOULD be striving for it.
Someone else already is ...



Thats not the issue, or the point of the debate though, it is conceded that players should strive to be the best they can, coaches should encourage them.

Ultimately the only test that matters is on the field and if your 1% better than then your 1% better.

As a player, i may not know every rule i should and that may affect my performance, but the point i if im still the best player! Are you going to pick the worst player, because im thick ? Your just putting a wish list out there and saying how things should be. If your picking the best side, all that matters is what you are!


I do see the point you are making but ..

Nope - it doesn't matter what you are. All that matters is that you are the best you can be. (Excuse the cheese)





But that is a purely personal reflection of you, on yourself. If thats how you feel fine, but you cannot project them judgements onto other people. If im a international class player and am just good enough to play for Wales, should i not be selected because if i put more ultimate effort in i could be world class ?

Its not up to you as a selector to select a person who is worst just because he could be even better than them. Surely you see the futility in such judgements. That is why you must pick on merit.

If your the best you can be, then from a personal point of view, however good you are thats *fupping* brilliant. But apart from your nearest and dearest who cares.

_________________
"Business!' cried the Ghost, wringing its hands again. "Mankind was my business; charity, mercy, forbearance, and benevolence, were, all, my business. The deals of my trade were but a drop of water in the comprehensive ocean of my business!”
“None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free.”
"The price of anything is the amount of life you exchange for


Thu Jun 22, 2017 5:45 pm
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Post Re: Wales players oblivious to law changes
Blindside wrote:

Its you that cant grasp this .... knowledge of a rule that does not effect outcomes is a pointless argument. You seem to be fixated on this one example. Try considering that the ignorance of this recent change in the rules might suggest that there are other gaps in players' familiarity with the rules and some gaps can affect the result of games. Of course its essential to know the rules, you ouldnt play the game ffs. But you're suggesting it doesn't matter if you don't know some the rules. As long as you're lucky that is. If a player improves their knowledge and understanding of the rules they going to improve as a player regardless of what other attributes they bring to the game.
The point is this not knowing you no longer have to take a kick from point blank range is no reflection on you as a rugby player. It is a big reflection on a professional rugby player. Its a bit like my mrs telling me shes gone down the coop and i nod, two minutes later im wondering where the *fupp* she is.....so what, does that make me a shit husband If you are paid 250,000 a year to be a professional wife watching husband then it would make you a shit one :D ! Im not sure what level you've been involved with but the fact you focus on such a pointless issue says a great deal :D You refuse to consider the issue based on the overall principle of the competence of professionals That fact im bothering to debating it with you probably points to me being a bit of a knob to mind :shock:

When I played at a very modest level of rugby neither I or my team mates were particularly knowledgeable when it came to the rules. The coaches of the various teams I played for didn't put much emphasis on getting any of us to learn more outside our specialist positions either. As I said I played at a very modest level of rugby even so with hindsight I can see now that I would have been more effective player if I had put some effort into getting to grips with the rulebook and I'm sure that goes for others I played with.
Rugby is a complicated game and every year new or altered rules come into play. I see this particular incident when the Wales captain was ignorant of a very uncomplicated, very recent rule change that he should have made himself aware of or the coaching set should have brought to his/the team's attention as a red warning light. If they don't address the issue then one day ignorance of a rule will cost us dearly.


Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:54 pm
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