It is currently Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:46 pm




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 54 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
What was the secret to Wales' relative success in 2008-13? 
Author Message
World XV Player
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 3:15 pm
Posts: 9512
Post Re: What was the secret to Wales' relative success in 2008-13?
The secret to our success was that we were very quick to react to any opportunity and finish it. Our defence was rock solid and we used defence as a form of attack, putting the opposite team under intense pressure and turning over ball and putting it straight out wide to finish.

We used the wide channels and were alert to any opportunity. Now, the players have become slow and pedestrian and expect victory to be handed to them - victory has made them slow and weak. They lack the hunger to make history.

Players like Samson Lee are not the answer, players like Ken Owens who want to range around the park with ball in hand we need, every player should be an attacking threat difficult to manage and not predictable and so processed and brainwashed that they can be easily analysed.

The secret to our success was our unpredictability. Unfortunately, the coaches are afraid to be unpredictable, they are very predictable and the fear has taken over and it is a tyrant in the camp.

This is the end of an era folks and frankly I hope we see change in the coaches as we did with England after the worst six nations we have ever had.

_________________
We dive for pearls in the ocean and ignore the jewels within - me


Sun Mar 19, 2017 7:34 pm
Profile
World XV Player

Joined: Sat Feb 13, 2010 9:31 pm
Posts: 9678
Post Re: What was the secret to Wales' relative success in 2008-13?
Over the last few years we've lost key players in key positions and the overall quality of the squad has deteriorated, add that to the game moving on and us not moving with it

Dan Lydiate is a prime example of that, player of the tournament in 2012 and a hugely influential player in how we played but has struggled to adapt over the last couple of years.


Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:37 pm
Profile E-mail
International Player

Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:00 pm
Posts: 931
Post Re: What was the secret to Wales' relative success in 2008-13?
Well what do we honestly expect to happen?

A relentless, faultless, uninterrupted, immortal pathway to sporting greatness and world domination or nothing else?

It's time to get real. This is the best group of Welsh players for decades; we've wilted somewhat in the last few years but that has come after a period of success and confidence previously unthinkable since the 1970s.

Considering that our club game is in terminal decline, that is actually some feat.


Sun Mar 19, 2017 9:59 pm
Profile E-mail
World XV Player
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:24 pm
Posts: 44362
Location: Llanharan
Post Re: What was the secret to Wales' relative success in 2008-13?
Spot on Tyler.

This mob are better than ever, it just takes them a few games to warm up now.


Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:56 am
Profile
World XV Player
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:19 pm
Posts: 7348
Post Re: What was the secret to Wales' relative success in 2008-13?
tyleri82 wrote:
Well what do we honestly expect to happen?

A relentless, faultless, uninterrupted, immortal pathway to sporting greatness and world domination or nothing else?

It's time to get real. This is the best group of Welsh players for decades; we've wilted somewhat in the last few years but that has come after a period of success and confidence previously unthinkable since the 1970s.

Considering that our club game is in terminal decline, that is actually some feat.


I don't think expecting sporting immortality is demanded. But a degree of consistency along with overall improvements is.

You mention the club in decline, perhaps that is the problem?

The easy answer is to blame regionalisation for our international problems but to counter, we have seen our greatest success in years since they were formed. Either way, there are many areas within our game that can be improved with fairly little effort.


Mon Mar 20, 2017 1:30 pm
Profile E-mail
World XV Player
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:24 pm
Posts: 44362
Location: Llanharan
Post Re: What was the secret to Wales' relative success in 2008-13?
Give us a list.

1 - 20 will do, CAB.

:thumbup:


Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:25 pm
Profile
British & Irish Lions Player

Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2016 5:42 pm
Posts: 2280
Post Re: What was the secret to Wales' relative success in 2008-13?
Cymru am byth wrote:
tyleri82 wrote:
I don't think expecting sporting immortality is demanded. But a degree of consistency along with overall improvements is.

You mention the club in decline, perhaps that is the problem?

The easy answer is to blame regionalisation for our international problems but to counter, we have seen our greatest success in years since they were formed. Either way, there are many areas within our game that can be improved with fairly little effort.


I agree. However, it perhaps could be asked how New Zealand, a country with only one million more people than Wales, has maintained not only consistency but world domination in a way that Wales very much haven't since the 70's?


Mon Mar 20, 2017 7:59 pm
Profile E-mail
World XV Player
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jul 16, 2005 3:15 pm
Posts: 9512
Post Re: What was the secret to Wales' relative success in 2008-13?
We can use lots of comparisons - consider the boks, beaten by us and Italy and they have been raided by european teams as their players search for gold takes over from the world stage.

Thing is, them and Oz are allowing their players to have a sabbatical up North, come world cup they are all back in.

If we look at our last 12 years we have tasted success, however you cannot ignore our record against the SH sides. But, also you cannot ignore that these teams were also at their peaks with very strong SH sides.

Look at England, they didnt get the GS and Eddie Jones is now telling Gatland he cannot lose the first test to deflect his failure and his players failings. He has lost one game and won two 6N ffs!! Its crazy, English rugby is on a high and they lost to a world class Irish team that although stuttering are still a massive challenge to any team in the world.

We need to get some perspective here and instead if blaming whoever we cant do *fupp* all about it!! They dont listen to us ffs, they cant hear me or you shouting at the tv and then ringing us up saying, "We heard you in Cardiff and want you to come down and help out with the lads!!"

We just have to hope that whatever comes next will be the same response the RFU had after England's disastrous world cup. The 6N is a funny competition and getting a Slam is very unusual as the results can be very unpredictable and every game is massive, it isnt a league a such, every minute detail counts.
But going back to our future, I just hope that someone in Cardiff sits up and says "I've had enough of this bs, we need change".

Thank you Warren you have served us well, but the game in wales is stagnant and needs a new injection, it needs a burst of new energy. If you want no change, you are going to get conservatism and no change, stuckness and a festering game.

Frankly, I am very concerned about professional rugby in Wales, there isnt much to be optimistic about to be honest, if there is then great, but I cant see any players who are pushing the others out of the way, they should be forcing their way into the squad but they arent - why not?

_________________
We dive for pearls in the ocean and ignore the jewels within - me


Tue Mar 21, 2017 12:17 am
Profile
British & Irish Lions Player

Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2016 5:42 pm
Posts: 2280
Post Re: What was the secret to Wales' relative success in 2008-13?
Although the Welsh regions have never been quite as successful as their Irish counterparts, they did have their good moments and did produce all the new players who emerged in and around RWC2011 who now make up much of the contemporary national team: Ospreys won the league four times, the AWC in 2008, reached the AWC final in 2007 and reached three HC quarter-finals in a row; Blues won the AWC in 2009 (interesting how, after Welsh regions won it twice in a row, the RFU downgraded it to a development competition - coincidence eh?) as well as reaching the HC semi-final that same year and were just one Martyn Williams kick away from a final, then won the Challenge Cup the following season; Scarlets won the inaugural Pro 12 and reached one or two HC semi-finals, including their famous victory in Toulouse.

What's more, even though the connection between success at club level and success at Test level is hardly absolute, it is interesting how 2012 seems to have been a watershed year for both - the last time Wales won the Grand Slam, the last time a Welsh region won the league (Ospreys), the last time a Welsh region reached the HC quarter-finals (Blues) and the last time a Welsh region reached the AWC semi-finals (Scarlets). I just hope the Ospreys can win both the Challenge Cup and the Pro 12 this season, and their fairly young squad once again become the catalyst for Welsh success internationally in the future.


Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:35 am
Profile E-mail
Club Player

Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 10:37 pm
Posts: 234
Post Re: What was the secret to Wales' relative success in 2008-13?
Heard today that since the last world cup, Wales have only capped 3 new players. Seems awfully low if true.


Tue Mar 21, 2017 1:52 am
Profile E-mail
British & Irish Lions Player

Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2016 5:42 pm
Posts: 2280
Post Re: What was the secret to Wales' relative success in 2008-13?
pythagoras wrote:
Heard today that since the last world cup, Wales have only capped 3 new players. Seems awfully low if true.


It is true, but actually quite a few were capped just before it. Take a look: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Rugb ... up_matches


Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:00 am
Profile E-mail
World XV Player
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 22, 2011 6:24 pm
Posts: 44362
Location: Llanharan
Post Re: What was the secret to Wales' relative success in 2008-13?
najbritcol wrote:
pythagoras wrote:
Heard today that since the last world cup, Wales have only capped 3 new players. Seems awfully low if true.


It is true, but actually quite a few were capped just before it. Take a look: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Rugb ... up_matches



There's loads of information on here, if you want to catch up, pithy. There's a few dozen new players been capped since November 2012. Some were quite good. Some were injured immediately after scoring a load of tries. It happens.

http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/matchcentre/index.php


Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:00 am
Profile
World XV Player
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2010 5:19 pm
Posts: 7348
Post Re: What was the secret to Wales' relative success in 2008-13?
najbritcol wrote:
Although the Welsh regions have never been quite as successful as their Irish counterparts, they did have their good moments and did produce all the new players who emerged in and around RWC2011 who now make up much of the contemporary national team: Ospreys won the league four times, the AWC in 2008, reached the AWC final in 2007 and reached three HC quarter-finals in a row; Blues won the AWC in 2009 (interesting how, after Welsh regions won it twice in a row, the RFU downgraded it to a development competition - coincidence eh?) as well as reaching the HC semi-final that same year and were just one Martyn Williams kick away from a final, then won the Challenge Cup the following season; Scarlets won the inaugural Pro 12 and reached one or two HC semi-finals, including their famous victory in Toulouse.

What's more, even though the connection between success at club level and success at Test level is hardly absolute, it is interesting how 2012 seems to have been a watershed year for both - the last time Wales won the Grand Slam, the last time a Welsh region won the league (Ospreys), the last time a Welsh region reached the HC quarter-finals (Blues) and the last time a Welsh region reached the AWC semi-finals (Scarlets). I just hope the Ospreys can win both the Challenge Cup and the Pro 12 this season, and their fairly young squad once again become the catalyst for Welsh success internationally in the future.


Re the U20s from 2008, I do wonder whether their inclusion in the current squad is as much to do with Gatland becoming new coach, he found the best young players and gave them a chance? Whether the subsequent U20s have been any better or worse, I'm not sure but it seems that few have been picked straight from the U20 squad as they were.


Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:36 am
Profile E-mail
Regional Player

Joined: Mon Oct 13, 2008 11:13 am
Posts: 575
Location: oxfordcestershire
Post Re: What was the secret to Wales' relative success in 2008-13?
Whats happened is the game has moved on and we havent - we are a one trick pony and everyone knows what that trick is and can put up a reasonable effort at stopping it - this is why we dont often win games by more than 10 points, we cant score enough points.

Defensively we are in the top teams in the world i would say - but if you dont have a plan to win and retain possession and then use it effectively youre a bit stuffed really!


Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:29 pm
Profile E-mail
British & Irish Lions Player

Joined: Thu Nov 24, 2016 5:42 pm
Posts: 2280
Post Re: What was the secret to Wales' relative success in 2008-13?
Rollo wrote:
Whats happened is the game has moved on and we havent - we are a one trick pony and everyone knows what that trick is and can put up a reasonable effort at stopping it - this is why we dont often win games by more than 10 points, we cant score enough points.

Defensively we are in the top teams in the world i would say - but if you dont have a plan to win and retain possession and then use it effectively youre a bit stuffed really!


Wales beat a strong Ireland side by 13 points. :cheers: But point taken.


Wed Mar 22, 2017 10:51 pm
Profile E-mail
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 54 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 8 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to: