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Unacceptable 6N for Wales? 
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Post Re: Unacceptable 6N for Wales?
@Shifty: One of Wales' worst years of all time was 1998, when the team lost 60-23 to England, 0-51 to France and 96-13 to South Africa!
@Blindside: As we have discussed before, most of Wales' losses in the 6N were pre-Gatland. If you look specifically at 6N tournaments from 2008 onwards, you'd find that Wales have been second only to England in number of matches won. I suggest you take a look at this: https://www.statslife.org.uk/sports/314 ... erachiever


Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:00 pm
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Post Re: Unacceptable 6N for Wales?
najbritcol wrote:
@Shifty: One of Wales' worst years of all time was 1998, when the team lost 60-23 to England, 0-51 to France and 96-13 to South Africa!
@Blindside: As we have discussed before, most of Wales' losses in the 6N were pre-Gatland. If you look specifically at 6N tournaments from 2008 onwards, you'd find that Wales have been second only to England in number of matches won. I suggest you take a look at this: https://www.statslife.org.uk/sports/314 ... erachiever




Thats not in dispute......

As thats the case, why are people blaming the coaching team and even Gatland..... Why would i specifically want to look at the tournament from that period on ???? If i would have wanted to then i would. I assume your point is that in the context of the last 9 years it was a "unexceptable". However this group of coaches, have been responsible for that relative success, which in the context of what came for the 20 years before is successful.

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Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:22 pm
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Post Re: Unacceptable 6N for Wales?
The point is that things have become too stale since 2013. There is an argument for keeping Gatland himself and Shaun Edwards, but not really the others.


Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:27 pm
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Post Re: Unacceptable 6N for Wales?
Blindside wrote:
najbritcol wrote:
@Shifty: One of Wales' worst years of all time was 1998, when the team lost 60-23 to England, 0-51 to France and 96-13 to South Africa!
@Blindside: As we have discussed before, most of Wales' losses in the 6N were pre-Gatland. If you look specifically at 6N tournaments from 2008 onwards, you'd find that Wales have been second only to England in number of matches won. I suggest you take a look at this: https://www.statslife.org.uk/sports/314 ... erachiever




Thats not in dispute......

As thats the case, why are people blaming the coaching team and even Gatland..... Why would i specifically want to look at the tournament from that period on ???? If i would have wanted to then i would. I assume your point is that in the context of the last 9 years it was a "unexceptable". However this group of coaches, have been responsible for that relative success, which in the context of what came for the 20 years before is successful.


It was in response to your claim that the Welsh public overrate the national team, given that they have only won 49 out of 90 matches since Italy joined the competition, when most of the losses were in the pre-Gatland era, which for all intents and purposes was basically an extension of the 90's as far as Wales were concerned.


Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:29 pm
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Post Re: Unacceptable 6N for Wales?
najbritcol wrote:
Blindside wrote:
najbritcol wrote:
@Shifty: One of Wales' worst years of all time was 1998, when the team lost 60-23 to England, 0-51 to France and 96-13 to South Africa!
@Blindside: As we have discussed before, most of Wales' losses in the 6N were pre-Gatland. If you look specifically at 6N tournaments from 2008 onwards, you'd find that Wales have been second only to England in number of matches won. I suggest you take a look at this: https://www.statslife.org.uk/sports/314 ... erachiever




Thats not in dispute......

As thats the case, why are people blaming the coaching team and even Gatland..... Why would i specifically want to look at the tournament from that period on ???? If i would have wanted to then i would. I assume your point is that in the context of the last 9 years it was a "unexceptable". However this group of coaches, have been responsible for that relative success, which in the context of what came for the 20 years before is successful.


It was in response to your claim that the Welsh public overrate the national team, given that they have only won 49 out of 90 matches since Italy joined the competition, when most of the losses were in the pre-Gatland era, which for all intents and purposes was basically an extension of the 90's as far as Wales were concerned.


What is the success if you frame it since Gatland started? Pre Gatland and 2005 aside, we didn't do well.


Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:31 pm
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Post Re: Unacceptable 6N for Wales?
Cymru am byth wrote:
najbritcol wrote:
Blindside wrote:
najbritcol wrote:
@Shifty: One of Wales' worst years of all time was 1998, when the team lost 60-23 to England, 0-51 to France and 96-13 to South Africa!
@Blindside: As we have discussed before, most of Wales' losses in the 6N were pre-Gatland. If you look specifically at 6N tournaments from 2008 onwards, you'd find that Wales have been second only to England in number of matches won. I suggest you take a look at this: https://www.statslife.org.uk/sports/314 ... erachiever




Thats not in dispute......

As thats the case, why are people blaming the coaching team and even Gatland..... Why would i specifically want to look at the tournament from that period on ???? If i would have wanted to then i would. I assume your point is that in the context of the last 9 years it was a "unexceptable". However this group of coaches, have been responsible for that relative success, which in the context of what came for the 20 years before is successful.


It was in response to your claim that the Welsh public overrate the national team, given that they have only won 49 out of 90 matches since Italy joined the competition, when most of the losses were in the pre-Gatland era, which for all intents and purposes was basically an extension of the 90's as far as Wales were concerned.


What is the success if you frame it since Gatland started? Pre Gatland and 2005 aside, we didn't do well.


The Gatland era has seen two Grand Slams, a Championship including a record defeat of England, a record defeat of Scotland the following year, two record defeats of Italy the two years after that, winning the majority of 6N matches every year apart from 2010 and this year, first RWC semi-final since 1987, getting out of the group of death in the following one even with a horrendous injury crisis...

Anyway, it does feel like the coaching team has reached its limitations and (at least sections of it) need to change, and likewise some of the players (the forwards are mostly good enough, but new backs like Steff Evans, Aled Davies and Sam Davies certainly need to be given a proper go).


Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:39 pm
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Post Re: Unacceptable 6N for Wales?
najbritcol wrote:
The point is that things have become too stale since 2013. There is an argument for keeping Gatland himself and Shaun Edwards, but not really the others.




Gatland picks who he wants :scratch: he would walk unless he had full control over his coaching staff.

So you use the statistical success of Gatland team 2008-13 as the comparison for the results 13-16. That is the only 5 year period since the 70's to compare less favorably. We have had for us as been a golden era, it is the way this is portrayed as usual that amuses me. The only difference being we have not been prayed on by League.

Personally, i dont think there is a coach that would have got much more out of the particular group of players. But thats an opinion. So for me we must produce more players of a higher standard and that is where the system fails. The failure is not at the top, but inevitably it is where the buck will eventually stop.

Howleys team very, very, nearly beat England and France away. Had we won either everyone would have been relatively happy.

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“None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free.”
"The price of anything is the amount of life you exchange for


Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:44 pm
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Post Re: Unacceptable 6N for Wales?
As I've said in another thread, how do New Zealand, which is only one million people bigger than Wales and also considers union its "national sport", maintain such a consistency and dominance that Wales absolutely cannot? (It isn't about money necessarily, given that Super Rugby is financially rather poorer than the Top 14, Aviva and even the Pro 12, hence why more SH players come to the NH than the reverse).


Mon Mar 20, 2017 8:52 pm
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Post Re: Unacceptable 6N for Wales?
najbritcol wrote:
As I've said in another thread, how do New Zealand, which is only one million people bigger than Wales and also considers union its "national sport", maintain such a consistency and dominance that Wales absolutely cannot? (It isn't about money necessarily, given that Super Rugby is financially rather poorer than the Top 14, Aviva and even the Pro 12, hence why more SH players come to the NH than the reverse).


LOADS & LOADS of 'roids... :D :twisted:


Mon Mar 20, 2017 9:15 pm
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Post Re: Unacceptable 6N for Wales?
najbritcol wrote:
how do New Zealand, which is only one million people bigger than Wales and also considers union its "national sport", maintain such a consistency and dominance that Wales absolutely cannot?


I believe they work harder at being good at all facets of rugby. Fairly simple really.


Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:28 pm
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Post Re: Unacceptable 6N for Wales?
Yard of Ale wrote:
najbritcol wrote:
how do New Zealand, which is only one million people bigger than Wales and also considers union its "national sport", maintain such a consistency and dominance that Wales absolutely cannot?


I believe they work harder at being good at all facets of rugby. Fairly simple really.


And most NZers unconditionally support the side and enjoy their media support each and every day of the year.


Tue Mar 21, 2017 8:46 am
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