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Welsh rugby coaching set up has to change.... 
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Post Re: Welsh rugby coaching set up has to change....
30 love, Tel serve ;)


Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:55 pm
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Post Re: Welsh rugby coaching set up has to change....
Langland Exile wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
Langland Exile wrote:
As a financial person, I don't see this necessarily as an audit issue. What is being audited exactly, and for what reason? I assume the WRU is audited and gets an unqualified opinion and a supportive management letter?

The WRU is financially successful and has paid off its debt, it will get a clean bill of health. Is it more the clubs and how they spend money?


WRU have a fundamental relationship and 'contract' (note. the quotes) with the Regions and there are many examples in business.

They include 'terms of reference' , 'powers reserved',' financial, legal and business viability assurance' and a process to ensure control. It's not as complicated as it might appear as I suspect you know. It is basic assurance of Company interests.

An enterprise that incorporates Independent Business has to have it.

Audit ensures it.

The independent report was based upon it or lack thereof.

Surely David you can see that?



Please answer the question. who is being audited, and by whom? These are all qualitative issues, and has nothing to do with an audit per se.

Again the WRU will pass with flying colours on all these, strong financial condition, assets owned free and clear, access to capital if needed..what is the "Company" you refer to? The WRU is likely meeting all payments to the regions or we would be hearing from it in the press? ;)




By all means.

I have always used the Price W independent report as a basis for what is needed and what hasn't been done

A reference

http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/news/wales/243 ... LMMa38Y0fI

It is NOT a case of Regional and WRU annual accounts IT IS A CASE OF THE UNDERSTANDING IN THEIR COEXISTENCE

The report highlighted deficiences.

The post that you have answered also asked you whether a Company that incorporates independent businesses, franchises or contractual obligations should assure and audit the obligation to maintain the Company interests. It is an essential aspect of risk management. I did ask you ... Do you agree?

The Independent Report effectively said that there wasn't any and there still isn't 4 year + That is delinquent and an exposure.

Audit can apply to any function although it is usually financially oriented. Risk management, for example,

So, there is nothing currently that one can audit and benefit from only the DCs and release obligations and/or same similar.

Hanging out are the relationship issues and reporting which should more formally include WRU inclusion and presence in order to integrate Region(RRW) and Union.

Other countries have it and the independent report highlighted it.

A key component in business or in the case of Union/league/Club relationship is business viability.

What is being audited you ask....very little currently despite 4 years after a critical independent report and a failed Programme Game Board etc ..

Your question is ahead of the game because there should be a better defined Union/RTRW (league-Club) regulation and formalised understanding, well overdue.

Then it can be audited and controlled.

WRU are currently betting somewhat blindly on the Regions and the situation makes both liable.

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Sun Feb 26, 2017 6:39 pm
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Post Re: Welsh rugby coaching set up has to change....
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I forgot excerpt from WRU report above :

A consistent format detailed five year Business plan will be agreed and implemented by each Region, with the PRGB undertaking formal quarterly reviews of performance against each current year plan

Now that would be something to audit :kermit:

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Sun Feb 26, 2017 6:47 pm
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Post Re: Welsh rugby coaching set up has to change....
Keith L wrote:
30 love, Tel serve ;)


Pls see above and I want to replay previous point pls :D

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Sun Feb 26, 2017 6:48 pm
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Post Re: Welsh rugby coaching set up has to change....
Tony Panties wrote:
Keith L wrote:
30 love, Tel serve ;)


Pls see above and I want to replay previous point pls :D


Previous point gone, look forward not back as you continually tell us ;)


Sun Feb 26, 2017 6:50 pm
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Post Re: Welsh rugby coaching set up has to change....
Keith L wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
Keith L wrote:
30 love, Tel serve ;)


Pls see above and I want to replay previous point pls :D


Previous point gone, look forward not back as you continually tell us ;)


Yep hence the detailed reply.

The comment was just in jest of the tennis scoring which incidentally stated that as I'm serving and it's 30 love I've already won the first two points :kermit:

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Sun Feb 26, 2017 6:57 pm
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Post Re: Welsh rugby coaching set up has to change....
I agree with Simlpyred.Things has to change.Our coaching fraterinity have gone passed their sell by date.I only wish the Scrum V panel have the guts to speak the truth and not stick to their mates attitude .Wales were awful and should have beaten Scotland


Sun Feb 26, 2017 6:57 pm
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Post Re: Welsh rugby coaching set up has to change....
Tony Panties wrote:
Langland Exile wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
Langland Exile wrote:
As a financial person, I don't see this necessarily as an audit issue. What is being audited exactly, and for what reason? I assume the WRU is audited and gets an unqualified opinion and a supportive management letter?

The WRU is financially successful and has paid off its debt, it will get a clean bill of health. Is it more the clubs and how they spend money?


WRU have a fundamental relationship and 'contract' (note. the quotes) with the Regions and there are many examples in business.

They include 'terms of reference' , 'powers reserved',' financial, legal and business viability assurance' and a process to ensure control. It's not as complicated as it might appear as I suspect you know. It is basic assurance of Company interests.

An enterprise that incorporates Independent Business has to have it.

Audit ensures it.

The independent report was based upon it or lack thereof.

Surely David you can see that?



Please answer the question. who is being audited, and by whom? These are all qualitative issues, and has nothing to do with an audit per se.

Again the WRU will pass with flying colours on all these, strong financial condition, assets owned free and clear, access to capital if needed..what is the "Company" you refer to? The WRU is likely meeting all payments to the regions or we would be hearing from it in the press? ;)




By all means.

I have always used the Price W independent report as a basis for what is needed and what hasn't been done

A reference

http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/news/wales/243 ... LMMa38Y0fI

It is NOT a case of Regional and WRU annual accounts IT IS A CASE OF THE UNDERSTANDING IN THEIR COEXISTENCE

The report highlighted deficiences.

The post that you have answered also asked you whether a Company that incorporates independent businesses, franchises or contractual obligations should assure and audit the obligation to maintain the Company interests. It is an essential aspect of risk management. I did ask you ... Do you agree?

The Independent Report effectively said that there wasn't any and there still isn't 4 year + That is delinquent and an exposure.

Audit can apply to any function although it is usually financially oriented. Risk management, for example,

So, there is nothing currently that one can audit and benefit from only the DCs and release obligations and/or same similar.

Hanging out are the relationship issues and reporting which should more formally include WRU inclusion and presence in order to integrate Region(RRW) and Union.

Other countries have it and the independent report highlighted it.

A key component in business or in the case of Union/league/Club relationship is business viability.

What is being audited you ask....very little currently despite 4 years after a critical independent report and a failed Programme Game Board etc ..

Your question is ahead of the game because there should be a better defined Union/RTRW (league-Club) regulation and formalised understanding, well overdue.

Then it can be audited and controlled.

WRU are currently betting somewhat blindly on the Regions and the situation makes both liable.



I understand your logic and I guess would use different terms than anything else. It's really not an audit, it's more of a third party (theoretically independent) management review? I guess currently the WRU has to provide evidence of contributions to the regions under the PSA, but it does not go any further than that?

I know you don't like references to the US, but all Pro Sports here which have revenue sharing (which they all do now), are subject to not only audit that the money was sent, but also audit of how the money was spent. More than one baseball team has had multi million dollar fines under this agreement when owners did not meet the required level of player salaries under the agreement, but put the money in their pockets, indirectly or otherwise.

Given the current management at the WRU, I can't see much innovation or original thought anytime soon, just sit back and collect those huge salaries for what is really a non profit monopoly.

Having seen local government wages in the UK, which I find staggering, I am not at all surprised.

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Sun Feb 26, 2017 7:11 pm
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Post Re: Welsh rugby coaching set up has to change....
Langland Exile wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
Langland Exile wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
Langland Exile wrote:
As a financial person, I don't see this necessarily as an audit issue. What is being audited exactly, and for what reason? I assume the WRU is audited and gets an unqualified opinion and a supportive management letter?

The WRU is financially successful and has paid off its debt, it will get a clean bill of health. Is it more the clubs and how they spend money?


WRU have a fundamental relationship and 'contract' (note. the quotes) with the Regions and there are many examples in business.

They include 'terms of reference' , 'powers reserved',' financial, legal and business viability assurance' and a process to ensure control. It's not as complicated as it might appear as I suspect you know. It is basic assurance of Company interests.

An enterprise that incorporates Independent Business has to have it.

Audit ensures it.

The independent report was based upon it or lack thereof.

Surely David you can see that?



Please answer the question. who is being audited, and by whom? These are all qualitative issues, and has nothing to do with an audit per se.

Again the WRU will pass with flying colours on all these, strong financial condition, assets owned free and clear, access to capital if needed..what is the "Company" you refer to? The WRU is likely meeting all payments to the regions or we would be hearing from it in the press? ;)




By all means.

I have always used the Price W independent report as a basis for what is needed and what hasn't been done

A reference

http://www.wru.co.uk/eng/news/wales/243 ... LMMa38Y0fI

It is NOT a case of Regional and WRU annual accounts IT IS A CASE OF THE UNDERSTANDING IN THEIR COEXISTENCE

The report highlighted deficiences.

The post that you have answered also asked you whether a Company that incorporates independent businesses, franchises or contractual obligations should assure and audit the obligation to maintain the Company interests. It is an essential aspect of risk management. I did ask you ... Do you agree?

The Independent Report effectively said that there wasn't any and there still isn't 4 year + That is delinquent and an exposure.

Audit can apply to any function although it is usually financially oriented. Risk management, for example,

So, there is nothing currently that one can audit and benefit from only the DCs and release obligations and/or same similar.

Hanging out are the relationship issues and reporting which should more formally include WRU inclusion and presence in order to integrate Region(RRW) and Union.

Other countries have it and the independent report highlighted it.

A key component in business or in the case of Union/league/Club relationship is business viability.

What is being audited you ask....very little currently despite 4 years after a critical independent report and a failed Programme Game Board etc ..

Your question is ahead of the game because there should be a better defined Union/RTRW (league-Club) regulation and formalised understanding, well overdue.

Then it can be audited and controlled.

WRU are currently betting somewhat blindly on the Regions and the situation makes both liable.



I understand your logic and I guess would use different terms than anything else. It's really not an audit, it's more of a third party (theoretically independent) management review? I guess currently the WRU has to provide evidence of contributions to the regions under the PSA, but it does not go any further than that?

I know you don't like references to the US, but all Pro Sports here which have revenue sharing (which they all do now), are subject to not only audit that the money was sent, but also audit of how the money was spent. More than one baseball team has had multi million dollar fines under this agreement when owners did not meet the required level of player salaries under the agreement, but put the money in their pockets, indirectly or otherwise.

Given the current management at the WRU, I can't see much innovation or original thought anytime soon, just sit back and collect those huge salaries for what is really a non profit monopoly.

Having seen local government wages in the UK, which I find staggering, I am not at all surprised.


David, I understand where you are coming froim but my tack is not essentially financially oriented although it is a key part.

It IS Audit (example shown below)

I posted a PS (shown below) that 4 year rolling report and 'audited' by the PRGB was what was looked for .... it dodn't materialise.

Tony Panties wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

I forgot excerpt from WRU report above :

A consistent format detailed five year Business plan will be agreed and implemented by each Region, with the PRGB undertaking formal quarterly reviews of performance against each current year plan

Now that would be something to audit :kermit:


Just as an example and there's no need for translation as the graphics are self explanatory and the business analysis pretty standard I enclose the forlmal french DNACG audited report of the 30 Pro teamls (2 leagues) for 2016.

That's what I call a pro sport audit


http://www.lnr.fr/sites/default/files/R ... G-2016.pdf


The DNACG also has a formal set of audit control regulations that must be adhered and that are monitored constanly with accompanying correction or penalty. Budgets are not agreed unless confirmed by audit function.

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Sun Feb 26, 2017 7:23 pm
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Post Re: Welsh rugby coaching set up has to change....
Defender90 wrote:
I agree with Simlpyred.Things has to change.Our coaching fraterinity have gone passed their sell by date.I only wish the Scrum V panel have the guts to speak the truth and not stick to their mates attitude .Wales were awful and should have beaten Scotland

:thumbup: :thumbup:


Sun Feb 26, 2017 7:35 pm
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Post Re: Welsh rugby coaching set up has to change....
SimplyRed wrote:
Defender90 wrote:
I agree with Simlpyred.Things has to change.Our coaching fraterinity have gone passed their sell by date.I only wish the Scrum V panel have the guts to speak the truth and not stick to their mates attitude .Wales were awful and should have beaten Scotland

:thumbup: :thumbup:


Seriously WTF has the scrum V panel got to do with anything? They are pundits expressing their opinion, they cant change *fupp* all and TBH, I wouldnt want any of their advice as to how it should be done :!:


Sun Feb 26, 2017 8:10 pm
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Post Re: Welsh rugby coaching set up has to change....
If the dice is to be rolled on the coaching front then it should be in time for the new coach to go on the summer tour. I doubt it will happen though, as I think the Union will have to wait to see what Gatland decides post Lions.


Sun Feb 26, 2017 8:18 pm
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Post Re: Welsh rugby coaching set up has to change....
tom21 wrote:
If the dice is to be rolled on the coaching front then it should be in time for the new coach to go on the summer tour. I doubt it will happen though, as I think the Union will have to wait to see what Gatland decides post Lions.


GAtland is due back until 2019. mcbryde is head coach for the south seas tour so we have no choice in the matter, sadly.


Sun Feb 26, 2017 8:19 pm
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Post Re: Welsh rugby coaching set up has to change....
SimplyRed wrote:
Fids the Blindside wrote:
SimplyRed wrote:
agree with last post.
what needs to be done then Fids?


Lower league 'village' sides have to merge so that club can put out more than just a first 15, do you know how many games are cancelled every week? I read one report that in 1 weekend before Christmas 17 games were cancelled, thats an entire league's worth of sides not playing, 34 clubs. Its not fair on the clubs who can put out sides, they are being dragged down by the clubs who exist for the sake of existing.

It will take years for the effects of the removal of the comfort zone and first teams relying on players who just want a social that to filter up but it has to be done.

The WRU don't report the number of games cancelled, I wonder why?


The first point will be hard given tribal and village loyalties..eg Burry Port and Kidwelly combining? no chance!! your point makes sense but will it ever happen?
I am aware of the crisis..where I'm from we only have one team and an occasional second team..
I think kids have more to do now than when you and I were younger maybe?
Merge or die that's it, no other way of dressing it up, how many clubs will disappear before the 'village'idiots realise there is no other choice will be the crux if welsh rugby is to survive.

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Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:00 pm
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Post Re: Welsh rugby coaching set up has to change....
I know merging is completely unacceptable to some, but if your club is putting out a few sides they don't have too.

Its the serial cancellers we have to look at.

I know a guy at a club back home who when I had this conversation with says 340 clubs is not sustainable, when I asked what number does he think would be he said 200.

if he is right, no idea if he is, we are over subscribed by one third.

Its scary.

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