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Wales are being left behind in international rugby... 
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Post Re: Wales are being left behind in international rugby...
loosechange wrote:
najbritcol wrote:
Stockholm Blue wrote:
IRB numbers comparing us with Ireland say that today the number of registered senior players is pretty much identical, but Ireland has 4 times as many boys 13 and under playing the game, and 4 times as many teenagers.

So once the current seniors give up the game it will be an amazing achievement for Wales to compete at the same level as Ireland in future.


Do you have a source for all these figures? And btw, Georgia and the Pacific Islands are Tier Two countries, although the former could be Tier One countries were it not for all their players being poached by everyone else.

:D You gotta get over this poaching hype mate. Most, if not every player is playing exactly where they want to play. Get over it. If none of those players or their families left the sunny shores of those PIs, chances are they wouldn’t even be in tier 2.


Then why are Australia, New Zealand, Japan and the Six Nations countries all apparently so keen on using them in their national teams? The main problem in the PIs is not a lack of players and talent - far from it - but a lack of money and infrastructure, and the self-serving neglect and lack of investment from World Rugby and the traditional rugby powers.


Sat Nov 25, 2017 2:49 am
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Post Re: Wales are being left behind in international rugby...
najbritcol wrote:
loosechange wrote:
najbritcol wrote:
Stockholm Blue wrote:
IRB numbers comparing us with Ireland say that today the number of registered senior players is pretty much identical, but Ireland has 4 times as many boys 13 and under playing the game, and 4 times as many teenagers.

So once the current seniors give up the game it will be an amazing achievement for Wales to compete at the same level as Ireland in future.


Do you have a source for all these figures? And btw, Georgia and the Pacific Islands are Tier Two countries, although the former could be Tier One countries were it not for all their players being poached by everyone else.

:D You gotta get over this poaching hype mate. Most, if not every player is playing exactly where they want to play. Get over it. If none of those players or their families left the sunny shores of those PIs, chances are they wouldn’t even be in tier 2.


Then why are Australia, New Zealand, Japan and the Six Nations countries all apparently so keen on using them in their national teams? The main problem in the PIs is not a lack of players and talent - far from it - but a lack of money and infrastructure, and the self-serving neglect and lack of investment from World Rugby and the traditional rugby powers.

Oz, NZ, Japan, and everyone else is giving them an opportunity, some are there because of their families, some because of their talents. “Using them” is ridiculous. It’s the way of the world. For sure there’s cases of people recruiting young players, but the blanket, blame the world is madness bro.

There’s nothing in the PIs because.......actually, that’s pretty much the answer. There’s nothing in the PIs. Throwing money there will do what exactly? It is pro sport, no one is going to chuck money there if it’s a hole, with no money coming back. There has to be real outcomes that make it worthwhile, not just “give them money”. I’m all for helping them out, just not sure how it can be done. Blaming everyone else seems a bit of a media based reactionary opinion tbh.

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Sat Nov 25, 2017 3:15 am
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Post Re: Wales are being left behind in international rugby...
Oh look another ignorant poster who thinks NZ poaches the poor island players.

But hey, don't let reality get in the way of your fairy tale right?


Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:16 am
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Post Re: Wales are being left behind in international rugby...
The only way i can see the P.I's doing well is if the world rugby union govern AND run the game on the islands. P.I players being picked up by many nations are just a symptom of a disease (setting aside the modern ability to move to any part of the world with relative ease). The problem is the respective nations governments of these countries and the mismanagement of funds and funding resulting in a struggling game and player exodus, that is why unions such as the RFU are not keen to provide blind financial support.
If an agreeement could be reached where World Rugby hold the finacial cards and administrative control, with a financial stream made available on revenues to the government, so funding and funds are transparent and sent where they should go, rather than a beuracrats pocket, maybe things could be strengthened and player retention increased? Just a thought.


Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:41 am
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Post Re: Wales are being left behind in international rugby...
najbritcol wrote:
Stockholm Blue wrote:
IRB numbers comparing us with Ireland say that today the number of registered senior players is pretty much identical, but Ireland has 4 times as many boys 13 and under playing the game, and 4 times as many teenagers.

So once the current seniors give up the game it will be an amazing achievement for Wales to compete at the same level as Ireland in future.


Do you have a source for all these figures? And btw, Georgia and the Pacific Islands are Tier Two countries, although the former could be Tier One countries were it not for all their players being poached by everyone else.


Some enterprising soul on Wikipedia went through all the country data from the IRB and compiled it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rugby_union_playing_countries


Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:44 am
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Post Re: Wales are being left behind in international rugby...
The figures are missing the most important statistic.

The number of professional rugby players is probably the most significant statistic


Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:17 am
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Post Re: Wales are being left behind in international rugby...
Brizzle wrote:
The figures are missing the most important statistic.

The number of professional rugby players is probably the most significant statistic


Youth players who go on to play pro rugby?


Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:19 am
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Post Re: Wales are being left behind in international rugby...
Brizzle wrote:
The figures are missing the most important statistic.

The number of professional rugby players is probably the most significant statistic



:scratch: Why ...... its a protected marketplace, the decision to have 4 regions and quotas for NWC players creates an artificial environment where players that would never be fully professional in NZ are in Wales. You can give me a professional contract and my brother and our cousin it doesn't make it meaningful.

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Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:34 am
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Post Re: Wales are being left behind in international rugby...
I think we have to be very careful with how we bring up the youth and too be honest I am not sure what the answer is. Too many times in Wales we do very well at aged range level, but then is this a case of us focusing on the early developers in terms of puberty and physicality - what about the late bloomers.... Do we lose them because we have a system which focuses so much on Age programmes. Yes, other countries do it but then most of the other countries have the depth to afford to lose any potential late bloomers. As an example, look at how the media hyped (with good reason) Henson when he was in his late teens, yearly twenties. Physically an early developer, but at the end of the day no-where near fulfilled his hype (again no wishing to go into a debate on his ability).

I've long thought that the Welsh players mentality is too switch off for the AIs (my excuse for why we normally do so badly) - it has usually been a long hard season and they have one eye firmly on the 6 nations - should we use the AIs to blood and develop younger players and make it some kind of rule that no one over 30 caps is eligable to play (in any of these games) - but then we don't want these players to experience thumpings vs NZ, but perhaps good learning games vs a mix bag of teams, but not the blacks. I think it will also give our players some much needed rest ahead of the 6 nations.

Also, I don't have the stats at hand, but are we also competing with Football and the Welsh national football team have had a good spell for the last 6/7 years - how many teenagers have been kicking a football compared to throwing a Rugby ball - and its not just how many, but how many talented teenagers.


Sat Nov 25, 2017 5:21 pm
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Post Re: Wales are being left behind in international rugby...
wombles wrote:
The only way i can see the P.I's doing well is if the world rugby union govern AND run the game on the islands. P.I players being picked up by many nations are just a symptom of a disease (setting aside the modern ability to move to any part of the world with relative ease). The problem is the respective nations governments of these countries and the mismanagement of funds and funding resulting in a struggling game and player exodus, that is why unions such as the RFU are not keen to provide blind financial support.
If an agreeement could be reached where World Rugby hold the finacial cards and administrative control, with a financial stream made available on revenues to the government, so funding and funds are transparent and sent where they should go, rather than a beuracrats pocket, maybe things could be strengthened and player retention increased? Just a thought.

A good thought. :thumbright:

It’ll be a step in the right direction so worth a shout.

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Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:51 pm
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Post Re: Wales are being left behind in international rugby...
Blindside wrote:
:scratch: Why ...... its a protected marketplace, the decision to have 4 regions and quotas for NWC players creates an artificial environment where players that would never be fully professional in NZ are in Wales. You can give me a professional contract and my brother and our cousin it doesn't make it meaningful.


So the statistic of the number of professional players is not a good for predicting Wales performance in internationals games.
i.e. it would understate New Zealand's performance compared to Wales

If statistics can predict anything about these games then it will be statistics about the players in the international games.
These are the professional players and I have not found any statistics about them.


Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:51 pm
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Post Re: Wales are being left behind in international rugby...
Brizzle wrote:
Blindside wrote:
:scratch: Why ...... its a protected marketplace, the decision to have 4 regions and quotas for NWC players creates an artificial environment where players that would never be fully professional in NZ are in Wales. You can give me a professional contract and my brother and our cousin it doesn't make it meaningful.


So the statistic of the number of professional players is not a good for predicting Wales performance in internationals games.
i.e. it would understate New Zealand's performance compared to Wales

If statistics can predict anything about these games then it will be statistics about the players in the international games.
These are the professional players and I have not found any statistics about them.

Bit of a skewed stat, the meat eaters and NZ have a shit ton of pros living and working overseas, the kiwis are ineligible for test footy unless they get capped else where.

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It's fine to have one, and fine to be proud of it.
But please don't whip it out in public and start waving it around,
And PLEASE don't try to shove it down my child's throat.


Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:06 pm
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Post Re: Wales are being left behind in international rugby...
najbritcol wrote:
loosechange wrote:
najbritcol wrote:
Stockholm Blue wrote:
IRB numbers comparing us with Ireland say that today the number of registered senior players is pretty much identical, but Ireland has 4 times as many boys 13 and under playing the game, and 4 times as many teenagers.

So once the current seniors give up the game it will be an amazing achievement for Wales to compete at the same level as Ireland in future.


Do you have a source for all these figures? And btw, Georgia and the Pacific Islands are Tier Two countries, although the former could be Tier One countries were it not for all their players being poached by everyone else.

:D You gotta get over this poaching hype mate. Most, if not every player is playing exactly where they want to play. Get over it. If none of those players or their families left the sunny shores of those PIs, chances are they wouldn’t even be in tier 2.


Then why are Australia, New Zealand, Japan and the Six Nations countries all apparently so keen on using them in their national teams? The main problem in the PIs is not a lack of players and talent - far from it - but a lack of money and infrastructure, and the self-serving neglect and lack of investment from World Rugby and the traditional rugby powers.


Do yourself a favor, get rid of the PI rugby myths you have been spoon fed.

Fact is the majority of PI rugby players are born and educated in NZ and had the benefit of coming up through the grades of an excellent NZR system.

The have the right to choose the rugby unions they are eligible to play for and your ignorance makes you look like a dumbo.

HTH


Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:06 am
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Post Re: Wales are being left behind in international rugby...
Justic wrote:
najbritcol wrote:
loosechange wrote:
najbritcol wrote:
Stockholm Blue wrote:
IRB numbers comparing us with Ireland say that today the number of registered senior players is pretty much identical, but Ireland has 4 times as many boys 13 and under playing the game, and 4 times as many teenagers.

So once the current seniors give up the game it will be an amazing achievement for Wales to compete at the same level as Ireland in future.


Do you have a source for all these figures? And btw, Georgia and the Pacific Islands are Tier Two countries, although the former could be Tier One countries were it not for all their players being poached by everyone else.

:D You gotta get over this poaching hype mate. Most, if not every player is playing exactly where they want to play. Get over it. If none of those players or their families left the sunny shores of those PIs, chances are they wouldn’t even be in tier 2.


Then why are Australia, New Zealand, Japan and the Six Nations countries all apparently so keen on using them in their national teams? The main problem in the PIs is not a lack of players and talent - far from it - but a lack of money and infrastructure, and the self-serving neglect and lack of investment from World Rugby and the traditional rugby powers.


Do yourself a favor, get rid of the PI rugby myths you have been spoon fed.

Fact is the majority of PI rugby players are born and educated in NZ and had the benefit of coming up through the grades of an excellent NZR system.

The have the right to choose the rugby unions they are eligible to play for and your ignorance makes you look like a dumbo.

HTH


But like I said, Australia, Japan and the Six Nations are all at it. Possibly the most brazen example is Nathan Hughes - "I want to play for England rather than Fiji for the money". Philistine.


Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:13 am
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Post Re: Wales are being left behind in international rugby...
Four More Years wrote:
Oh look another ignorant poster who thinks NZ poaches the poor island players.

But hey, don't let reality get in the way of your fairy tale right?


I heard the entire NZ team was poached #demsdafacts

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Sun Nov 26, 2017 1:46 am
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