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Ulster/Osps qualifier 
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Post Re: Ulster/Osps qualifier
BigRed wrote:
BigRed wrote:
The difference between Scarlets and Ospreys is not so much the players but the coaching.
Just take a look at both sides on a man for man basis.
Where is the great difference between the two teams?
There is a huge gulf between the performances. Where is the huge gulf between the players?


Scarlets: J McNicholl; T Prydie, S Williams, H Parkes, S Evans; R Patchell, G Davies; R Evans, K Owens (capt), S Lee, T Beirne, S Cummins, A Shingler, J Davies, J Barclay.

Replacements: R Elias, W Jones, W Kruger, L Rawlins, W Boyde, J Evans, D Jones, S Hughes.

Compare:

Ospreys: S Davies; J Hassler, A Beck, O Watkin, H Dirksen; D Biggar, T Habberfield; N Smith, S Otten, D Arhip, B Davies, A Wyn Jones (capt), D Lydiate, J Tipuric, J King.

Replacements: I Phillips, R Jones, M Fia, A Beard, S Cross, M Aubrey, C Allen, J Hook.

Here is an exercise, let us rate each player starting from 15 down to 1.

J McNicholl 6
S Davies 4

T Prydie 7
Hassler 6

S Williams 7
A Beck 7

H Parkes 9
O Watkin 7

S Evans 7
H Dirksen 5

R Patchell 7
Biggar 9

OK, I've done enough can someone fill in the balance. In most cases, I've had the Scarlets player being a better player. But how much is that due to coaching?


Sun May 20, 2018 10:42 pm
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Post Re: Ulster/Osps qualifier
BigRed wrote:
Pearcey3 wrote:
Always liked Hook as a player but he bottled it at a time in his career when he could have nailed his legacy. Rewind to the 2011 World Cup. He was one of the few players in that squad whose career went backwards as a result of his performances in that tournament.

I blame Gats for getting that wrong in the semi-final against France. It did affect Hooky going forward.
Another one shafted was Priestland, who was shafted by the crowd at his home stadium.
The Priest another one of our really gifted players.
We seem to want to shaft our gifted players simply because we do not see them as reaching the standard of our 1970's greats.
Sheer madness, I hope we have learned our lessons going forward.
We have some really good youngsters coming through who need our support and not our needless criticisms.
Criticise, yes but constructive criticisms and not destructive criticisms.




Your opinion is that the criticism of an international player or disappointment in selection causes their game to deteriorate? and it is then the fault of the coaches fans or media? If that affects their play to the extent that you appear to indicate, then that itself shows a problem with them, that may well be the reason they were not selected and or criticised. The strength of character and the mental attitude to battle through advisory with a cool head. Professional sport and International sport, in particular, is tough old business and these players earn a great living, when things go wrong you must be able to adapt, both off and on the field to put them right. Priestland was given enough rope to hang himself three times over while Bigger was pretty excluded. Biggar took it on the chin and got up off the deck.

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Sun May 20, 2018 10:55 pm
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Post Re: Ulster/Osps qualifier
I've watched Hook throughout his career and including his time in France where he was largely successful at 10 and 15.

Undoubtedly talented and sometimes abused because of his versatility I would say that he was never consistent. He never fitted and adapted and was given to variable performance which is a blight at international level.

One should recognise that he went to France and did well, ...often a graveyard for welsh players.

I enjoyed watching him at his best but was never confident that there wasn't something coming to spoil it.

Henson comparisons imo are futile, Hook has always been a good Pro.

An enigma.

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Mon May 21, 2018 2:57 am
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Post Re: Ulster/Osps qualifier
Everybody gets old.

Fact of life.

Hooky is no different to any ageing Pro ….. he was very different in his pomp.


Mon May 21, 2018 4:02 am
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Post Re: Ulster/Osps qualifier
Disappointing result as hoping to see ospreys in Europe... but if anything the game completely summed up where there are

Some strength up front but no creativity and simply not enough pace in the back line. Scott Williams and George north will add some zip but it was a real shame Cory Allen went off injured as at least he has some gas

On the separate hook debate... good player but inconsistent. His performance at 10 for wales vs France in the World Cup in 2011 was truly abysmal.


Mon May 21, 2018 8:08 am
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Post Re: Ulster/Osps qualifier
One of the commentators came up with an interesting stat during the game. Apparently the Osperys have the highest possession stats for any team in the Pro14 this season, but they also have the lowest try count.

It clearly shows a weakness in attack, but possibly points to some strengths as well. If next years coaches can sort out an attacking game then the Os could easily be challenging for silverwear again.

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Mon May 21, 2018 9:36 am
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Post Re: Ulster/Osps qualifier
ICEverything wrote:
One of the commentators came up with an interesting stat during the game. Apparently the Osperys have the highest possession stats for any team in the Pro14 this season, but they also have the lowest try count.

It clearly shows a weakness in attack, but possibly points to some strengths as well. If next years coaches can sort out an attacking game then the Os could easily be challenging for silverwear again.

That is an interesting stat. It just goes to show how much wasted ball by Ospreys.
Sam and Dan have a lot to do with that wasted ball.
I first pointed it out with Sam at FH and Dan at FB in a dismal performance against Zebra.
It all boils down to coaching, no cohesion between forwards and backs.
A bit like in the past where the forwards win the ball and think their job is done until they have to try and win the ball back again. Compare that with the free running forwards of the Scarlets.
I thought Sam Cross did OK in this respect when he came on. He seemed to get some continuity going between backs and forwards.


Mon May 21, 2018 11:25 am
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Post Re: Ulster/Osps qualifier
BigRed wrote:
ICEverything wrote:
One of the commentators came up with an interesting stat during the game. Apparently the Osperys have the highest possession stats for any team in the Pro14 this season, but they also have the lowest try count.

It clearly shows a weakness in attack, but possibly points to some strengths as well. If next years coaches can sort out an attacking game then the Os could easily be challenging for silverwear again.

That is an interesting stat. It just goes to show how much wasted ball by Ospreys.
Sam and Dan have a lot to do with that wasted ball.
I first pointed it out with Sam at FH and Dan at FB in a dismal performance against Zebra.
It all boils down to coaching, no cohesion between forwards and backs.
A bit like in the past where the forwards win the ball and think their job is done until they have to try and win the ball back again. Compare that with the free running forwards of the Scarlets.
I thought Sam Cross did OK in this respect when he came on. He seemed to get some continuity going between backs and forwards.



If you look at your own backline stats then nearly every player is marked higher in the Scarlets except for Bek and Scot Williams, i would have given Beck a 5 and Wiliams 7.5 , you include Habberfield 5 and Davies 8 or Possibly 9 and the only position that looks better in the backs for the Ospreys is at 10. Considering Bigger is not a threat on his own and he as very little threat outside, you can kind of see while its not just coaching its down to the mediocracy of their players.

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“None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free.”
"The price of anything is the amount of life you exchange for


Mon May 21, 2018 11:51 am
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Post Re: Ulster/Osps qualifier
Blindside wrote:
BigRed wrote:
ICEverything wrote:
One of the commentators came up with an interesting stat during the game. Apparently the Osperys have the highest possession stats for any team in the Pro14 this season, but they also have the lowest try count.

It clearly shows a weakness in attack, but possibly points to some strengths as well. If next years coaches can sort out an attacking game then the Os could easily be challenging for silverwear again.

That is an interesting stat. It just goes to show how much wasted ball by Ospreys.
Sam and Dan have a lot to do with that wasted ball.
I first pointed it out with Sam at FH and Dan at FB in a dismal performance against Zebra.
It all boils down to coaching, no cohesion between forwards and backs.
A bit like in the past where the forwards win the ball and think their job is done until they have to try and win the ball back again. Compare that with the free running forwards of the Scarlets.
I thought Sam Cross did OK in this respect when he came on. He seemed to get some continuity going between backs and forwards.



If you look at your own backline stats then nearly every player is marked higher in the Scarlets except for Bek and Scot Williams, i would have given Beck a 5 and Wiliams 7.5 , you include Habberfield 5 and Davies 8 or Possibly 9 and the only position that looks better in the backs for the Ospreys is at 10. Considering Bigger is not a threat on his own and he as very little threat outside, you can kind of see while its not just coaching its down to the mediocracy of their players.

BS. Probably you're right, I was thinking that the reason for the poor showing of the backs is due to coaching. There is also the lack of any serious interchange between forwards and backs.
It may have passed me by but have Ospreys contracted any additional flyhalves to replace Dan Biggar?
Also, do they have any decent wings in the pipeline, besides George North?
With Ospreys current state of play, I'd put GN at centre, can't see him getting any meaningful ball on the wing.
He must be disappointed with his choice of Ospreys seeing as they are not in the Championships next year.
If Ospreys have Sam as first choice FH next year they are really in trouble, If folks on this forum can criticise Hooky, then get ready for Sam next year.


Mon May 21, 2018 12:40 pm
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Post Re: Ulster/Osps qualifier
Blindside wrote:
BigRed wrote:
ICEverything wrote:
One of the commentators came up with an interesting stat during the game. Apparently the Osperys have the highest possession stats for any team in the Pro14 this season, but they also have the lowest try count.

It clearly shows a weakness in attack, but possibly points to some strengths as well. If next years coaches can sort out an attacking game then the Os could easily be challenging for silverwear again.

That is an interesting stat. It just goes to show how much wasted ball by Ospreys.
Sam and Dan have a lot to do with that wasted ball.
I first pointed it out with Sam at FH and Dan at FB in a dismal performance against Zebra.
It all boils down to coaching, no cohesion between forwards and backs.
A bit like in the past where the forwards win the ball and think their job is done until they have to try and win the ball back again. Compare that with the free running forwards of the Scarlets.
I thought Sam Cross did OK in this respect when he came on. He seemed to get some continuity going between backs and forwards.



If you look at your own backline stats then nearly every player is marked higher in the Scarlets except for Bek and Scot Williams, i would have given Beck a 5 and Wiliams 7.5 , you include Habberfield 5 and Davies 8 or Possibly 9 and the only position that looks better in the backs for the Ospreys is at 10. Considering Bigger is not a threat on his own and he as very little threat outside, you can kind of see while its not just coaching its down to the mediocracy of their players.


You are right but I think that the players should offer more than they do for their skills. The Ospreys players are still good.


Mon May 21, 2018 1:07 pm
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Post Re: Ulster/Osps qualifier
Cymru am byth - do you suffer from hiccups?
You always repeat your posts. :D :dontknow:


Mon May 21, 2018 5:10 pm
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Post Re: Ulster/Osps qualifier
BigRed wrote:
Cymru am byth - do you suffer from hiccups?
You always repeat your posts. :D :dontknow:


I do!


Mon May 21, 2018 6:08 pm
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Post Re: Ulster/Osps qualifier
Cymru am byth wrote:
Blindside wrote:
BigRed wrote:
ICEverything wrote:
One of the commentators came up with an interesting stat during the game. Apparently the Osperys have the highest possession stats for any team in the Pro14 this season, but they also have the lowest try count.

It clearly shows a weakness in attack, but possibly points to some strengths as well. If next years coaches can sort out an attacking game then the Os could easily be challenging for silverwear again.

That is an interesting stat. It just goes to show how much wasted ball by Ospreys.
Sam and Dan have a lot to do with that wasted ball.
I first pointed it out with Sam at FH and Dan at FB in a dismal performance against Zebra.
It all boils down to coaching, no cohesion between forwards and backs.
A bit like in the past where the forwards win the ball and think their job is done until they have to try and win the ball back again. Compare that with the free running forwards of the Scarlets.
I thought Sam Cross did OK in this respect when he came on. He seemed to get some continuity going between backs and forwards.



If you look at your own backline stats then nearly every player is marked higher in the Scarlets except for Bek and Scot Williams, i would have given Beck a 5 and Wiliams 7.5 , you include Habberfield 5 and Davies 8 or Possibly 9 and the only position that looks better in the backs for the Ospreys is at 10. Considering Bigger is not a threat on his own and he as very little threat outside, you can kind of see while its not just coaching its down to the mediocracy of their players.


You are right but I think that the players should offer more than they do for their skills. The Ospreys players are still good.



The Ospreys have underperformed i would agree. The environment as led to very few players pushing on. Whereas the reason many Scalet players are marked higher is that they have improved. Which kind of backs Reds argument, but there are so many ways of looking at things and so many influences in team success its hard to gauge.

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“None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free.”
"The price of anything is the amount of life you exchange for


Mon May 21, 2018 7:59 pm
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Post Re: Ulster/Osps qualifier
Quote:
Players improve then fade.

Confucius


Sat May 26, 2018 5:35 am
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