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BBC fails to reach Pro 14 rugby TV deal 
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Post Re: BBC fails to reach Pro 14 rugby TV deal
Cymru am byth wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
Gate revenue is a low % revenue.
Sponsorship and investment is what the Club attraction should be all about.
Media contract amount the big League revenue decider and there the comparison lies v the franglais.


But if bugger all people go to the games because no one is watching it on pay TV, how are you going to maintain sponsorship and justify the TV rights in the future? This jas a high risk of being a viscious circle.


It is just what seems to be priority factors that most affect the bottom line.

The Pro14 problem is is hybrid geography profile and a lack of cohesive spectator competitive environment.

A better SA presence would help media interest and ultimately a N Hemp conference environment could be the answer but that too would have to ensure prime competitiveness which I think it would have and the razzmatazz of a European Champ ultimate goal with a N v Hemp World Champ play off etc

That is what would attract media money and would better include Pro14 prime teams?

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Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:09 pm
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Post Re: BBC fails to reach Pro 14 rugby TV deal
It all comes down to the cash. If each region is getting a couple of extra million quid out of it, then it's worth it. If they aren't, and have sold their soul cheaply, then it isn't.

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Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:29 pm
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Post Re: BBC fails to reach Pro 14 rugby TV deal
spinbreath wrote:
It all comes down to the cash. If each region is getting a couple of extra million quid out of it, then it's worth it. If they aren't, and have sold their soul cheaply, then it isn't.


I think that it could be short-sighted to only consider the immediate.

If and when the N hemp structure changes, already talk of a more comprehensive SA shift to the N Hemp etc.

The EPCR are already in discussion with SA (although this has been officially denied ;) ) with regard to potential expansion within the Euro Championship arena.
Pro14 have to ensure a full seat at the table and a set up and media aspects etc that have some clout in any significant changes.

The EPCR example is a role model where the Club Leagues PRL and LNR usurped the Union control and it is now Club Governance and control.

Inevitably there will be a further tiered system in that evantuality and therein another caution for the Pro14 Clubs. The Irish are 'safe', top Welsh maybe, ....Sco selective ....

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Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:43 pm
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Post Re: BBC fails to reach Pro 14 rugby TV deal
All of that makes sense. But, let's be honest here, the channel they've sold the rights to is hardly a 'big player'. And I get the feeling there are many involved within the regional set up who would be quite happy to cut off their nose to spite their face, if it meant a move away from the socialism of the BBC toward the hallowed ground of subscription TV.

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Mon Mar 12, 2018 6:48 pm
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Post Re: BBC fails to reach Pro 14 rugby TV deal
Who negotiated this, WRU or PRW?

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Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:28 pm
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Post Re: BBC fails to reach Pro 14 rugby TV deal
I would guess it would be the Celtic league, or whatever they’re called now.

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Mon Mar 12, 2018 7:32 pm
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Post Re: BBC fails to reach Pro 14 rugby TV deal
^^^^^^^^^^

The fact that we don't know is indicative of the Pro14 governance?

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Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:52 pm
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Post Re: BBC fails to reach Pro 14 rugby TV deal
Tony Panties wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^

The fact that we don't know is indicative of the Pro14 governance?


Or we are ignorant and ill informed? ;)

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Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:02 am
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Post Re: BBC fails to reach Pro 14 rugby TV deal
Langland Exile wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^

The fact that we don't know is indicative of the Pro14 governance?


Or we are ignorant and ill informed? ;)


Does it sound a coordinated, well managed, well financed outfit with good public relations and clear communications?

That has always been the problem with the Celtic League and Italy set up, conflicting interests and independent negotiations.

I do like the more expansive initiative and the initial attraction of SA into the mix but I do fear that the EPCR, PRL, LNR are just waiting for the right time to take a broader initiative and especially with a broader SA migration and an enhanced 'Europe' and broader based World Club Rugby in mind.

Saracens initial investment e.g was always based on a more coordinated SA relationship and it still is.

AS mentioned earlier, The Pro14 must protect their seat at the top table and preserve the interest of their major clubs ... look what happened at the transition of ERC to EPCR ;)

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Tue Mar 13, 2018 9:05 am
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Post Re: BBC fails to reach Pro 14 rugby TV deal
It could really upset the apple cart if the BBC decide to show and promote premiership rugby, while largely ignoring the Pro 12.


Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:26 pm
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Post Re: BBC fails to reach Pro 14 rugby TV deal
We all know the reason why BT had a lot of sponsorship of various sides while Sky had the rights to some games. What will happen know and if they stop how are the sides going to persuade other sponsors when the poor viewing figures come when the games switch to PPV only?

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Tue Mar 13, 2018 3:52 pm
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Post Re: BBC fails to reach Pro 14 rugby TV deal
Tony Panties wrote:
Langland Exile wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
^^^^^^^^^^

The fact that we don't know is indicative of the Pro14 governance?


Or we are ignorant and ill informed? ;)


Does it sound a coordinated, well managed, well financed outfit with good public relations and clear communications?

That has always been the problem with the Celtic League and Italy set up, conflicting interests and independent negotiations.

I do like the more expansive initiative and the initial attraction of SA into the mix but I do fear that the EPCR, PRL, LNR are just waiting for the right time to take a broader initiative and especially with a broader SA migration and an enhanced 'Europe' and broader based World Club Rugby in mind.

Saracens initial investment e.g was always based on a more coordinated SA relationship and it still is.

AS mentioned earlier, The Pro14 must protect their seat at the top table and preserve the interest of their major clubs ... look what happened at the transition of ERC to EPCR ;)


Making the Pro 12/14 more genuinely competitive, rather than the Irish and Welsh teams merely ensuring they had to finish above Connacht and the Dragons respectively is no bad thing. And after the 2015-16 no-show, the Pro 14 has a sizable number of teams in the QFs of both cups now.


Tue Mar 13, 2018 4:12 pm
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Post Re: BBC fails to reach Pro 14 rugby TV deal
There’s a few more layers to the new deals than have been revealed up to this point.

The PRO14 is owned by Celtic Rugby DADC. It’s three equal shareholders are SRU, WRU and IRFU. The FIR has still not been made a shareholder due to their ongoing financial difficulties and default on payments to teams/unions despite many promises to do so. FIR TV deals are negotiated separately with PRO14 and monies go directly to them.

The TV rights for games played in Britain & Ireland and revenues from them are shared between the three shareholders. FTA deals for each of the four TV territories - Wales, Scotland, N Ireland and Republic of Ireland were negotiated individually and the monies accruing from each territory largely went to its own union.

In previous deal, BBC Wales (4 Welsh regions) paid far more than BBC Alba (2 Scottish teams) or BBC NI (1 team) or TG4 (3 teams) because they are the richest of the four TV stations and also bid for the most amount of games. Sky had a separate primary broadcast deal covering all the territories for a certain number of matches each season. The broadcasters did secondary rights deals with each other to show their teams’ away games e.g. Munster v Ospreya might be shown by TG4 and BBC Wales, etc.

Celtic Rugby put out a tender for TV rights for next three years. This ties in with the timing of the SARU deal which will have a review point in 2020 to see how the teams are performing, whether they need to be changed or more added in if all parties are agreed. SARU paid their participation fee in the PRO14 through the TV deal they negotiated with SuperSport which provided money for SARU and 6m to be split amongst the PRO12 teams each year.

Martin Anayi, CEO of PRO14 said last year that they were going to look at bringing an individual solution to each territory with a combination of Pay per view, FTA and online plus social media such as Amazon, Facebook, etc.

Eir Sport in Ireland bid for the primary ROI rights (and possibly NI rights as they have a license to broadcast in both territories). Sky also bid for the Irish rights but only on the basis of getting all five B&I territories. EirSport put in a higher and better bid for ROI/NI with a commitment to make the content more Irish-focused. They also did a deal with TG4 for secondary rights who will show some Irish home games on FTA. They got the gig.

Sky then withdrew their bid because of their all or nothing approach.

BBC submitted a collective bid for the three British territories. They announced that they had lost the primary rights bid but hoped to get some games for S4C, etc. It’s reported that Premier Sports have won it instead. PS also may have bid for the secondary rights in which case they will likely sell on some games to BBC and/or S4C to produce and broadcast a certain amount of FTA games in each territory. PS may also want to sell rights in other territories such as England, US, Canada, Australia, Far East.

As someone noted above, EirSport bought Setanta in Ireland and rebranded it. As part of their purchase was an existing three year deal with BT to screen their programming in ROI territory. That deal finishes at end of this year. It will have to be re-negotiated assuming both parties are interested.

It’s possible that Premier Sports will seek to do a similar deal in the UK where it might be part of a BT package at a certain price and/or subscribers can buy it monthly (Sept-May) on their Sky/Virgin platforms, or buy the Premier Sports app and watch it online.

Premier Sports and EirSport have worked together before on broadcasting Ireland test matches and it’s likely the two will grant secondary rights for each other’s home games to be shown in their respective territories. E.g Munster V Ospreys produced by EirSport could be re-broadcast on S4C or PS and vice versa with say Glasgow v Leinster being shown on TG4 or EirSport.

No doubt more details will emerge of what the final deal for UK will be. Having an FTA element will be part of the plan as they have done and announced in ROI with EirSport and TG4. And similarly as EPCR have done with recent announcements for some European games being on FTA next season with Channel 4 in UK and TV3 in Ireland.


Sun Mar 25, 2018 1:47 am
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Post Re: BBC fails to reach Pro 14 rugby TV deal
Pot Hale wrote:
There’s a few more layers to the new deals than have been revealed up to this point.

The PRO14 is owned by Celtic Rugby DADC. It’s three equal shareholders are SRU, WRU and IRFU. The FIR has still not been made a shareholder due to their ongoing financial difficulties and default on payments to teams/unions despite many promises to do so. FIR TV deals are negotiated separately with PRO14 and monies go directly to them.

The TV rights for games played in Britain & Ireland and revenues from them are shared between the three shareholders. FTA deals for each of the four TV territories - Wales, Scotland, N Ireland and Republic of Ireland were negotiated individually and the monies accruing from each territory largely went to its own union.

In previous deal, BBC Wales (4 Welsh regions) paid far more than BBC Alba (2 Scottish teams) or BBC NI (1 team) or TG4 (3 teams) because they are the richest of the four TV stations and also bid for the most amount of games. Sky had a separate primary broadcast deal covering all the territories for a certain number of matches each season. The broadcasters did secondary rights deals with each other to show their teams’ away games e.g. Munster v Ospreya might be shown by TG4 and BBC Wales, etc.

Celtic Rugby put out a tender for TV rights for next three years. This ties in with the timing of the SARU deal which will have a review point in 2020 to see how the teams are performing, whether they need to be changed or more added in if all parties are agreed. SARU paid their participation fee in the PRO14 through the TV deal they negotiated with SuperSport which provided money for SARU and 6m to be split amongst the PRO12 teams each year.

Martin Anayi, CEO of PRO14 said last year that they were going to look at bringing an individual solution to each territory with a combination of Pay per view, FTA and online plus social media such as Amazon, Facebook, etc.

Eir Sport in Ireland bid for the primary ROI rights (and possibly NI rights as they have a license to broadcast in both territories). Sky also bid for the Irish rights but only on the basis of getting all five B&I territories. EirSport put in a higher and better bid for ROI/NI with a commitment to make the content more Irish-focused. They also did a deal with TG4 for secondary rights who will show some Irish home games on FTA. They got the gig.

Sky then withdrew their bid because of their all or nothing approach.

BBC submitted a collective bid for the three British territories. They announced that they had lost the primary rights bid but hoped to get some games for S4C, etc. It’s reported that Premier Sports have won it instead. PS also may have bid for the secondary rights in which case they will likely sell on some games to BBC and/or S4C to produce and broadcast a certain amount of FTA games in each territory. PS may also want to sell rights in other territories such as England, US, Canada, Australia, Far East.

As someone noted above, EirSport bought Setanta in Ireland and rebranded it. As part of their purchase was an existing three year deal with BT to screen their programming in ROI territory. That deal finishes at end of this year. It will have to be re-negotiated assuming both parties are interested.

It’s possible that Premier Sports will seek to do a similar deal in the UK where it might be part of a BT package at a certain price and/or subscribers can buy it monthly (Sept-May) on their Sky/Virgin platforms, or buy the Premier Sports app and watch it online.

Premier Sports and EirSport have worked together before on broadcasting Ireland test matches and it’s likely the two will grant secondary rights for each other’s home games to be shown in their respective territories. E.g Munster V Ospreys produced by EirSport could be re-broadcast on S4C or PS and vice versa with say Glasgow v Leinster being shown on TG4 or EirSport.

No doubt more details will emerge of what the final deal for UK will be. Having an FTA element will be part of the plan as they have done and announced in ROI with EirSport and TG4. And similarly as EPCR have done with recent announcements for some European games being on FTA next season with Channel 4 in UK and TV3 in Ireland.


Thanks for the insight :thumbup:

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Sun Mar 25, 2018 2:19 am
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Post Re: BBC fails to reach Pro 14 rugby TV deal
Pot Hale wrote:
There’s a few more layers to the new deals than have been revealed up to this point.

The PRO14 is owned by Celtic Rugby DADC. It’s three equal shareholders are SRU, WRU and IRFU. The FIR has still not been made a shareholder due to their ongoing financial difficulties and default on payments to teams/unions despite many promises to do so. FIR TV deals are negotiated separately with PRO14 and monies go directly to them.

The TV rights for games played in Britain & Ireland and revenues from them are shared between the three shareholders. FTA deals for each of the four TV territories - Wales, Scotland, N Ireland and Republic of Ireland were negotiated individually and the monies accruing from each territory largely went to its own union.

In previous deal, BBC Wales (4 Welsh regions) paid far more than BBC Alba (2 Scottish teams) or BBC NI (1 team) or TG4 (3 teams) because they are the richest of the four TV stations and also bid for the most amount of games. Sky had a separate primary broadcast deal covering all the territories for a certain number of matches each season. The broadcasters did secondary rights deals with each other to show their teams’ away games e.g. Munster v Ospreya might be shown by TG4 and BBC Wales, etc.

Celtic Rugby put out a tender for TV rights for next three years. This ties in with the timing of the SARU deal which will have a review point in 2020 to see how the teams are performing, whether they need to be changed or more added in if all parties are agreed. SARU paid their participation fee in the PRO14 through the TV deal they negotiated with SuperSport which provided money for SARU and 6m to be split amongst the PRO12 teams each year.

Martin Anayi, CEO of PRO14 said last year that they were going to look at bringing an individual solution to each territory with a combination of Pay per view, FTA and online plus social media such as Amazon, Facebook, etc.

Eir Sport in Ireland bid for the primary ROI rights (and possibly NI rights as they have a license to broadcast in both territories). Sky also bid for the Irish rights but only on the basis of getting all five B&I territories. EirSport put in a higher and better bid for ROI/NI with a commitment to make the content more Irish-focused. They also did a deal with TG4 for secondary rights who will show some Irish home games on FTA. They got the gig.

Sky then withdrew their bid because of their all or nothing approach.

BBC submitted a collective bid for the three British territories. They announced that they had lost the primary rights bid but hoped to get some games for S4C, etc. It’s reported that Premier Sports have won it instead. PS also may have bid for the secondary rights in which case they will likely sell on some games to BBC and/or S4C to produce and broadcast a certain amount of FTA games in each territory. PS may also want to sell rights in other territories such as England, US, Canada, Australia, Far East.

As someone noted above, EirSport bought Setanta in Ireland and rebranded it. As part of their purchase was an existing three year deal with BT to screen their programming in ROI territory. That deal finishes at end of this year. It will have to be re-negotiated assuming both parties are interested.

It’s possible that Premier Sports will seek to do a similar deal in the UK where it might be part of a BT package at a certain price and/or subscribers can buy it monthly (Sept-May) on their Sky/Virgin platforms, or buy the Premier Sports app and watch it online.

Premier Sports and EirSport have worked together before on broadcasting Ireland test matches and it’s likely the two will grant secondary rights for each other’s home games to be shown in their respective territories. E.g Munster V Ospreys produced by EirSport could be re-broadcast on S4C or PS and vice versa with say Glasgow v Leinster being shown on TG4 or EirSport.

No doubt more details will emerge of what the final deal for UK will be. Having an FTA element will be part of the plan as they have done and announced in ROI with EirSport and TG4. And similarly as EPCR have done with recent announcements for some European games being on FTA next season with Channel 4 in UK and TV3 in Ireland.


Nicely done.


Sun Mar 25, 2018 8:20 am
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