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Leigh Halfpenny poised to join Scarlets on dual contract 
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Post Re: Leigh Halfpenny poised to join Scarlets on dual contract
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/40773723
Leigh Halfpenny: Wales full-back joins Scarlets on dual contract


Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:55 am
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Post Re: Leigh Halfpenny poised to join Scarlets on dual contract
see below

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Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:11 pm
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Post Re: Leigh Halfpenny poised to join Scarlets on dual contract
wasp wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
ben606 wrote:


There is no doubt, the accounts are not pretty.
That said I can see wasps point. Look at saracens the recently the most successful team in Europe and they have huge debts and big losses each year. (Largely due to ignoring the wage cap) They are entirely reliant on their South African backers and seem unlikely to increase attendance.

The Scarlets are still in fully realism on there's and need to do more to increase attendance hopefully halfpenny signing will helpthe

The biggest problem for the pro12 teams is the vast difference in TV revenue between the leagues. I would like to see the now Pro14 sell the rights to Sky (who I believe have some partnership with SA Super Sports) and limit the games shown to 3 a weekend. I think sky would pay significantly more than the current broadcasters and it would help drive attendance (currently just about every regionally game is televised) and personally I think that would push more people to games.

I can see why the finding directors are taking the attitude they are as there a new TV contract could be a game changer for all Celtic teams.


Some wise words Ben, ...especially regarding revenue stream. A broader Conference set up which I hope for will help that.

Saracens consortium was a long game investment broader than just Saracens imo.

It was SA venture and outlooking a scenario which we can now see on the horizon. SA business commercial and otherwise is interested in N Hemp presence. Sponsorship would have a much bigger market in the N Hemp especially when one considers off the field clout and opportunity.

Other than paying large deficits Saracens have achieved much ....they are the best team in N Hemp for sure, they invested widely in their small ground and it has widespread facilities, ...they can also fill Twickers almost at the drop of a hat for important games.

I'm not fully aware of the extent of the financial backers but it is considerably more than the Regions.

As reported on here there are now billionairs investing in rugby and they are not sugar daddies....they are integrating their business interests with rugby and have ulterior motives.

One has to put the likes of Scarlets in the context of these heavily backed initiatives.

I've oft said thst the likes of Cardiff are good ground for investment but the infighting morass and poor publicity and wrangling is a downer and the fans dont help that much either.

Hmm. Not that wise. Sky are the current broadcaster and anyone with a calculator and google can work out that attendances, whilst nice to have, are not the holy grail. sponsorship, hospitality and TV money are the major factors. Indeed this is evident from Sarries being happy with a relatively small capacity ground.


You have missed the point I made above ..

I specifically said that gate revenue is no big deal but it is an indicator of support and does, importantly, attract sponsor and investor attention. They don't like drab crowds ...

Unlike Scarlets Saracens fill their ground and can go offsite and fill Twickenham. They are also a team that wins silverware.

Scarlet's gates last Season in Pro12 were less than the previous Season and given their excellent performance that must be disappointing?

I also made the point ref Saracens that the extent of backers capability is important and already BIG backers are entering the game and NOT as sugar daddies but with ulterior motives and some directly integrating rugby into their business portfolio.

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Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:11 pm
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Post Re: Leigh Halfpenny poised to join Scarlets on dual contract
Tony Panties wrote:
wasp wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
ben606 wrote:


There is no doubt, the accounts are not pretty.
That said I can see wasps point. Look at saracens the recently the most successful team in Europe and they have huge debts and big losses each year. (Largely due to ignoring the wage cap) They are entirely reliant on their South African backers and seem unlikely to increase attendance.

The Scarlets are still in fully realism on there's and need to do more to increase attendance hopefully halfpenny signing will helpthe

The biggest problem for the pro12 teams is the vast difference in TV revenue between the leagues. I would like to see the now Pro14 sell the rights to Sky (who I believe have some partnership with SA Super Sports) and limit the games shown to 3 a weekend. I think sky would pay significantly more than the current broadcasters and it would help drive attendance (currently just about every regionally game is televised) and personally I think that would push more people to games.

I can see why the finding directors are taking the attitude they are as there a new TV contract could be a game changer for all Celtic teams.


Some wise words Ben, ...especially regarding revenue stream. A broader Conference set up which I hope for will help that.

Saracens consortium was a long game investment broader than just Saracens imo.

It was SA venture and outlooking a scenario which we can now see on the horizon. SA business commercial and otherwise is interested in N Hemp presence. Sponsorship would have a much bigger market in the N Hemp especially when one considers off the field clout and opportunity.

Other than paying large deficits Saracens have achieved much ....they are the best team in N Hemp for sure, they invested widely in their small ground and it has widespread facilities, ...they can also fill Twickers almost at the drop of a hat for important games.

I'm not fully aware of the extent of the financial backers but it is considerably more than the Regions.

As reported on here there are now billionairs investing in rugby and they are not sugar daddies....they are integrating their business interests with rugby and have ulterior motives.

One has to put the likes of Scarlets in the context of these heavily backed initiatives.

I've oft said thst the likes of Cardiff are good ground for investment but the infighting morass and poor publicity and wrangling is a downer and the fans dont help that much either.

Hmm. Not that wise. Sky are the current broadcaster and anyone with a calculator and google can work out that attendances, whilst nice to have, are not the holy grail. sponsorship, hospitality and TV money are the major factors. Indeed this is evident from Sarries being happy with a relatively small capacity ground.


You have missed the point I made above ..

I specifically said that gate revenue is no big deal but it is an indicator of support and does, importantly, attract sponsor and investor attention. They don't like drab crowds ...

Unlike Scarlets Saracens fill their ground and can go offsite and fill Twickenham. They are also a team that wins silverware.

Scarlet's gates last Season in Pro12 were less than the previous Season and given their excellent performance that must be disappointing?

I also made the point ref Saracens that the extent of backers capability is important and already BIG backers are entering the game and NOT as sugar daddies but with ulterior motives and some directly integrating rugby into their business portfolio.

Pretty certain this coming season will see the gate picking up, as well as greater TV coverage and revenue. Not only because of Scarlets performances last year, but the introduction of a Saffer team, plus the type of rugby under Pivac.


Fri Aug 04, 2017 12:36 pm
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Post Re: Leigh Halfpenny poised to join Scarlets on dual contract
Tony Panties wrote:
wasp wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
ben606 wrote:


There is no doubt, the accounts are not pretty.
That said I can see wasps point. Look at saracens the recently the most successful team in Europe and they have huge debts and big losses each year. (Largely due to ignoring the wage cap) They are entirely reliant on their South African backers and seem unlikely to increase attendance.

The Scarlets are still in fully realism on there's and need to do more to increase attendance hopefully halfpenny signing will helpthe

The biggest problem for the pro12 teams is the vast difference in TV revenue between the leagues. I would like to see the now Pro14 sell the rights to Sky (who I believe have some partnership with SA Super Sports) and limit the games shown to 3 a weekend. I think sky would pay significantly more than the current broadcasters and it would help drive attendance (currently just about every regionally game is televised) and personally I think that would push more people to games.

I can see why the finding directors are taking the attitude they are as there a new TV contract could be a game changer for all Celtic teams.


Some wise words Ben, ...especially regarding revenue stream. A broader Conference set up which I hope for will help that.

Saracens consortium was a long game investment broader than just Saracens imo.

It was SA venture and outlooking a scenario which we can now see on the horizon. SA business commercial and otherwise is interested in N Hemp presence. Sponsorship would have a much bigger market in the N Hemp especially when one considers off the field clout and opportunity.

Other than paying large deficits Saracens have achieved much ....they are the best team in N Hemp for sure, they invested widely in their small ground and it has widespread facilities, ...they can also fill Twickers almost at the drop of a hat for important games.

I'm not fully aware of the extent of the financial backers but it is considerably more than the Regions.

As reported on here there are now billionairs investing in rugby and they are not sugar daddies....they are integrating their business interests with rugby and have ulterior motives.

One has to put the likes of Scarlets in the context of these heavily backed initiatives.

I've oft said thst the likes of Cardiff are good ground for investment but the infighting morass and poor publicity and wrangling is a downer and the fans dont help that much either.

Hmm. Not that wise. Sky are the current broadcaster and anyone with a calculator and google can work out that attendances, whilst nice to have, are not the holy grail. sponsorship, hospitality and TV money are the major factors. Indeed this is evident from Sarries being happy with a relatively small capacity ground.


You have missed the point I made above ..

I specifically said that gate revenue is no big deal but it is an indicator of support and does, importantly, attract sponsor and investor attention. They don't like drab crowds ...

Unlike Scarlets Saracens fill their ground and can go offsite and fill Twickenham. They are also a team that wins silverware.

Scarlet's gates last Season in Pro12 were less than the previous Season and given their excellent performance that must be disappointing?

I also made the point ref Saracens that the extent of backers capability is important and already BIG backers are entering the game and NOT as sugar daddies but with ulterior motives and some directly integrating rugby into their business portfolio.


Saracens are an interesting one as their ground only holds about 10,000 doesn't it? Scarlets crowds would look much healthier in a staium that size. As you say, they can fill Twickenham or Wembley but how many of those are London based event goers as opposed to actual Saracens fans? The only remotely comparable thing to that in Wales and the Scarlets would be Judgement Day and that sells pretty well.

Free-to-air TV for a lot of home games does have to factor in as well I feel.


Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:18 pm
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Post Re: Leigh Halfpenny poised to join Scarlets on dual contract
tom21 wrote:
Saracens are an interesting one as their ground only holds about 10,000 doesn't it? Scarlets crowds would look much healthier in a staium that size. As you say, they can fill Twickenham or Wembley but how many of those are London based event goers as opposed to actual Saracens fans? The only remotely comparable thing to that in Wales and the Scarlets would be Judgement Day and that sells pretty well.

Free-to-air TV for a lot of home games does have to factor in as well I feel.


Premiership attendance table ….enter date

http://rd.premiershiprugby.com/stats/at ... 2016#18099#D0DAIhTgPKbLy9eA.97

Saracens stats attendance :

http://rd.premiershiprugby.com/matchcen ... sPwoFge.97

Allianz park av 9570 96% capacity …Aviva
Note that there’s also a shared 47k and a home 71k Wembley in there but not counted

Scarlets, I believe :
Pro12 av 7164 48% capacity

Ref judgement day Scarlets don’t get a ‘home’ fixture there, only Cardiff and Newport do … and it inflates their stats

PS I think the Saracens stats are understated because they upgrade their ground capacity occasionally e.g to 15k to play home in EPCR because there is a limit on a ¼ final home fixture of 15k minimum. Some of the 'real' recorded attendance also reports >10k (I believe that it is standing spectators etc ... but that's another issue .. these are the official stats.

Also, if you look at Premiership Rugby stats they come out as overall 4th on the attendance league for 2016/2017

I do agree with you though that it is apples and pears and the TV aspect is well made.

But there's no denying Scarlets support is lacking especially given a drop in last Seasons v successful Season.

Before I get more posts on the subject ... Gate receipts are not a factor, e.g Top14 av revenue gate = ~~~20% and sponsorship 50% but support levels are an indicator and taken into account by sponsor and potential investors and drag along revenue! They are a prime 'health' factor.

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Fri Aug 04, 2017 4:21 pm
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Post Re: Leigh Halfpenny poised to join Scarlets on dual contract
Tony Panties wrote:
tom21 wrote:
Saracens are an interesting one as their ground only holds about 10,000 doesn't it? Scarlets crowds would look much healthier in a staium that size. As you say, they can fill Twickenham or Wembley but how many of those are London based event goers as opposed to actual Saracens fans? The only remotely comparable thing to that in Wales and the Scarlets would be Judgement Day and that sells pretty well.

Free-to-air TV for a lot of home games does have to factor in as well I feel.


Premiership attendance table ….enter date

http://rd.premiershiprugby.com/stats/at ... 2016#18099#D0DAIhTgPKbLy9eA.97

Saracens stats attendance :

http://rd.premiershiprugby.com/matchcen ... sPwoFge.97

Allianz park av 9570 96% capacity …Aviva
Note that there’s also a shared 47k and a home 71k Wembley in there but not counted

Scarlets, I believe :
Pro12 av 7164 48% capacity

Ref judgement day Scarlets don’t get a ‘home’ fixture there, only Cardiff and Newport do … and it inflates their stats

PS I think the Saracens stats are understated because they upgrade their ground capacity occasionally e.g to 15k to play home in EPCR because there is a limit on a ¼ final home fixture of 15k minimum. Some of the 'real' recorded attendance also reports >10k (I believe that it is standing spectators etc ... but that's another issue .. these are the official stats.

Also, if you look at Premiership Rugby stats they come out as overall 4th on the attendance league for 2016/2017

I do agree with you though that it is apples and pears and the TV aspect is well made.

But there's no denying Scarlets support is lacking especially given a drop in last Seasons v successful Season.

Before I get more posts on the subject ... Gate receipts are not a factor, e.g Top14 av revenue gate = ~~~20% and sponsorship 50% but support levels are an indicator and taken into account by sponsor and potential investors and drag along revenue! They are a prime 'health' factor.


I said Saracens are an 'interesting one' as they are one of the biggest club sides around yet play in a relatively small stadium. I think being a successful team based in London means they can move games around that city and sell games as 'events' in bigger stadiums.

As for the Welsh sides, I don't know what the answer is regarding attendances to be honest. The league and TV coverage are often pinpointed as reasons but there doesn't seem to be a big uplift for the European games when neither of those two are an issue.


Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:16 am
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Post Re: Leigh Halfpenny poised to join Scarlets on dual contract
Talking to a Wasps fan at a recent wedding in the midlands, it was very interesting to hear how they attracted people into the stadium, and how they have kept them.

Essentially a team that abandoned it's reasonably mediocre fan base and attracted a large new one in 2 years, give it really cheap, keep it cheap, make the day a good occasion for all, it's not rocket science.

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Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:38 am
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Post Re: Leigh Halfpenny poised to join Scarlets on dual contract
There are many reasons why people don't go. But if the Scarlets can play well this season, it is going to result in more people going. Also, I think that having one region doing well will also make the other regions attract fans.

Also, some of the comments that gates don't make the money may be true, but they indicate a healthy support.


Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:46 am
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Post Re: Leigh Halfpenny poised to join Scarlets on dual contract
CymraegJanner wrote:
Talking to a Wasps fan at a recent wedding in the midlands, it was very interesting to hear how they attracted people into the stadium, and how they have kept them.

Essentially a team that abandoned it's reasonably mediocre fan base and attracted a large new one in 2 years, give it really cheap, keep it cheap, make the day a good occasion for all, it's not rocket science.


Wasps not really a realistic example either as they moved to an area with a big catchment area that has a healthy interest in rugby, but no pro team. They had a unique opportunity with the Coventry City situation and took it.


Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:57 pm
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Post Re: Leigh Halfpenny poised to join Scarlets on dual contract
CymraegJanner wrote:
Talking to a Wasps fan at a recent wedding in the midlands, it was very interesting to hear how they attracted people into the stadium, and how they have kept them.

Essentially a team that abandoned it's reasonably mediocre fan base and attracted a large new one in 2 years, give it really cheap, keep it cheap, make the day a good occasion for all, it's not rocket science.

What do most guys want to do after a game, but to go home and discuss the game with their wife? I think not. :D
I think getting sponsors to erect marquees and offer reasonably priced food and a beer. Thus enabling the fans to discuss the game with like minded punters over a hamburger or hot dog or whatever and a beer. Uber taxies could be on standby for those punters who require more than one beer. :occasion5:


Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:24 pm
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Post Re: Leigh Halfpenny poised to join Scarlets on dual contract
tom21 wrote:
CymraegJanner wrote:
Talking to a Wasps fan at a recent wedding in the midlands, it was very interesting to hear how they attracted people into the stadium, and how they have kept them.

Essentially a team that abandoned it's reasonably mediocre fan base and attracted a large new one in 2 years, give it really cheap, keep it cheap, make the day a good occasion for all, it's not rocket science.


Wasps not really a realistic example either as they moved to an area with a big catchment area that has a healthy interest in rugby, but no pro team. They had a unique opportunity with the Coventry City situation and took it.

Oh agreed.
But it's how they've done it, and how it's worked.
A lot of families go to the ricoh

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Sat Aug 05, 2017 9:31 pm
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Post Re: Leigh Halfpenny poised to join Scarlets on dual contract
CymraegJanner wrote:
tom21 wrote:
CymraegJanner wrote:
Talking to a Wasps fan at a recent wedding in the midlands, it was very interesting to hear how they attracted people into the stadium, and how they have kept them.

Essentially a team that abandoned it's reasonably mediocre fan base and attracted a large new one in 2 years, give it really cheap, keep it cheap, make the day a good occasion for all, it's not rocket science.


Wasps not really a realistic example either as they moved to an area with a big catchment area that has a healthy interest in rugby, but no pro team. They had a unique opportunity with the Coventry City situation and took it.

Oh agreed.
But it's how they've done it, and how it's worked.
A lot of families go to the ricoh


Totally agree. A massive opportunity has been presented to them and they are taking it. Apparently doing a lot of good work with local clubs in the wider area.


Sat Aug 05, 2017 11:18 pm
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Post Re: Leigh Halfpenny poised to join Scarlets on dual contract
tom21 wrote:
CymraegJanner wrote:
tom21 wrote:
CymraegJanner wrote:
Talking to a Wasps fan at a recent wedding in the midlands, it was very interesting to hear how they attracted people into the stadium, and how they have kept them.

Essentially a team that abandoned it's reasonably mediocre fan base and attracted a large new one in 2 years, give it really cheap, keep it cheap, make the day a good occasion for all, it's not rocket science.


Wasps not really a realistic example either as they moved to an area with a big catchment area that has a healthy interest in rugby, but no pro team. They had a unique opportunity with the Coventry City situation and took it.

Oh agreed.
But it's how they've done it, and how it's worked.
A lot of families go to the ricoh


Totally agree. A massive opportunity has been presented to them and they are taking it. Apparently doing a lot of good work with local clubs in the wider area.

Yeah they are, it's all very well and good picking up a club and putting it in a place where there's lots of people, but you have to get those people to come in, and come in again. Northampton and Leicester are on their doorstep, but they have created a large core fanbase from nothing very quickly and appear to have kept it.

When the regions formed I was of the opinon it would take a long time to attract in the fans as there was no affiliation which needed to be built, Wasps have proved me wrong to some degree (although the vast majority of new Wasps fans didn't have a previous affiliation with a top level club a la the regions and their contributing clubs) and I think it's impressive.

It'll be interesting to see if the business model works mind, they are quite highly leveraged with short term bonds

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Sun Aug 06, 2017 7:27 pm
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Post Re: Leigh Halfpenny poised to join Scarlets on dual contract
It is imperative that the Scarlets attract a lot more people through the turnstiles. Adult admission charges for seating behind the goals and inside the 22 meter lines should be reduced to £5 or less, and children should be admitted for £1. Schools in the Llanelli area should be allocated a bundle of complimentary tickets on a rota basis. The Finance department will say that is not the way to make money, but the team will perform better in front of larger crowds; and to be honest the present attendances are absolutely disgusting.


Sun Aug 06, 2017 9:45 pm
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