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Leigh Halfpenny poised to join Scarlets on dual contract 
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Post Re: Leigh Halfpenny poised to join Scarlets on dual contract
A good signing as long as they are not over paying him.
Apart from being a very good kicker of penalties, and great under the high ball, oh and a good tackler, what will Halfpenny bring to the Scarlets? will he fit in with their attacking prowess, he doesn't appear to score many tries these days, maybe the Scarlets can fix that, and unprogramme him from Warrenball.


Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:28 am
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Post Re: Leigh Halfpenny poised to join Scarlets on dual contract
Tony Panties wrote:
Langland Exile wrote:
Good to see a regional team invest for success.


That is a little tongue in cheek??

Undoubtedly Scarlets have built a successful squad and recruited a fine architect in the Coach.

Scores on the doors and an impressive performance and they are set up well for some progression this Season.
They have spent well but the Pro world has another aspect... paying the piper.
A 1.5m previous deficit and a shaky going concern cannot be swept away.

They have truly built a fine squad and importantly seem to have developed a team ethic and a squad well motivated.

The best investment has been Pivac and the development of Stephen Jones alongside

On the subject of investment there has been criticism from Scarlet supporters on the allocation of DCs ... maybe some recognition of WRU investment in JD and 1/2P should also be recognised.

Now the important phase : consolidation of their on the field performance and broader success and a turnaround in the business side.

I feel that they could be truly progressive but with a nagging doubt if the financials will be sufficient. Progressive teams also suffer talent spotting and big cheques and that includes the Coach ... 1/2P at the end of the day is just a better goal kicking replacement for Liam W.

Jury out but undoubtedly the most progressive Region with a performing squad and an excellent Coach and apparently a fine ambiance with a business aspect Achilles heel.

Llanelli fans ... vote with your feet and attract some people that matter ... Sponsors and investors.

They already have attracted them. The investors cover the losses and are comfortable with current accounts. According to Short the Commercial sponsorship is comparable to the best rugby teams in the UK.

They're expecting a significant uplift in TV money from 2018. At the moment it's difficult to criticise the board for their strategy. I was told some months ago that there was no problem covering the losses in the medium term and if the opportunity to sign a strategically important player came up, funds would be made available to Pivac.

Lo and behold this was what happened. Before 1/2p signed they already had the biggest playing budget of the Welsh teams. They're doing exactly what many moaners on here asked for - putting their hands in their pockets.

The short term goal is to be in a strong position for 2020 when the next big shake up in club rugby is due.


Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:51 pm
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Post Re: Leigh Halfpenny poised to join Scarlets on dual contract
The Abominable Dr. Phibes wrote:
A good signing as long as they are not over paying him.
Apart from being a very good kicker of penalties, and great under the high ball, oh and a good tackler, what will Halfpenny bring to the Scarlets? will he fit in with their attacking prowess, he doesn't appear to score many tries these days, maybe the Scarlets can fix that, and unprogramme him from Warrenball.

We already have the league's top try scorer. Now we have even more defensive solidity and the ability to score points from penalties all over the Parc. Also Leigh is no slouch. He'll enjoy scoring a few more tries under Pivac.


Thu Aug 03, 2017 3:55 pm
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Post Re: Leigh Halfpenny poised to join Scarlets on dual contract
wasp wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
Langland Exile wrote:
Good to see a regional team invest for success.


That is a little tongue in cheek??

Undoubtedly Scarlets have built a successful squad and recruited a fine architect in the Coach.

Scores on the doors and an impressive performance and they are set up well for some progression this Season.
They have spent well but the Pro world has another aspect... paying the piper.
A 1.5m previous deficit and a shaky going concern cannot be swept away.

They have truly built a fine squad and importantly seem to have developed a team ethic and a squad well motivated.

The best investment has been Pivac and the development of Stephen Jones alongside

On the subject of investment there has been criticism from Scarlet supporters on the allocation of DCs ... maybe some recognition of WRU investment in JD and 1/2P should also be recognised.

Now the important phase : consolidation of their on the field performance and broader success and a turnaround in the business side.

I feel that they could be truly progressive but with a nagging doubt if the financials will be sufficient. Progressive teams also suffer talent spotting and big cheques and that includes the Coach ... 1/2P at the end of the day is just a better goal kicking replacement for Liam W.

Jury out but undoubtedly the most progressive Region with a performing squad and an excellent Coach and apparently a fine ambiance with a business aspect Achilles heel.

Llanelli fans ... vote with your feet and attract some people that matter ... Sponsors and investors.

They already have attracted them. The investors cover the losses and are comfortable with current accounts. According to Short the Commercial sponsorship is comparable to the best rugby teams in the UK.

They're expecting a significant uplift in TV money from 2018. At the moment it's difficult to criticise the board for their strategy. I was told some months ago that there was no problem covering the losses in the medium term and if the opportunity to sign a strategically important player came up, funds would be made available to Pivac.

Lo and behold this was what happened. Before 1/2p signed they already had the biggest playing budget of the Welsh teams. They're doing exactly what many moaners on here asked for - putting their hands in their pockets.

The short term goal is to be in a strong position for 2020 when the next big shake up in club rugby is due.


This is what the last filed accounts stated :

PS ... there should be another soon?

This available 'free' from Co Accts

here

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisat ... nies-house

and follow find information



Image

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Thu Aug 03, 2017 7:10 pm
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Post Re: Leigh Halfpenny poised to join Scarlets on dual contract
To a large extent standard disclaimers from the accountants.

Not being flippant here, just factual.


Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:00 pm
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Post Re: Leigh Halfpenny poised to join Scarlets on dual contract
Signing now officially confirmed.


Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:01 pm
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Post Re: Leigh Halfpenny poised to join Scarlets on dual contract
It's official! Brilliant news.
http://www.scarlets.co.uk/eng/news/12082.php


Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:02 pm
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Post Re: Leigh Halfpenny poised to join Scarlets on dual contract
Tony Panties wrote:
wasp wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
Langland Exile wrote:
Good to see a regional team invest for success.


That is a little tongue in cheek??

Undoubtedly Scarlets have built a successful squad and recruited a fine architect in the Coach.

Scores on the doors and an impressive performance and they are set up well for some progression this Season.
They have spent well but the Pro world has another aspect... paying the piper.
A 1.5m previous deficit and a shaky going concern cannot be swept away.

They have truly built a fine squad and importantly seem to have developed a team ethic and a squad well motivated.

The best investment has been Pivac and the development of Stephen Jones alongside

On the subject of investment there has been criticism from Scarlet supporters on the allocation of DCs ... maybe some recognition of WRU investment in JD and 1/2P should also be recognised.

Now the important phase : consolidation of their on the field performance and broader success and a turnaround in the business side.

I feel that they could be truly progressive but with a nagging doubt if the financials will be sufficient. Progressive teams also suffer talent spotting and big cheques and that includes the Coach ... 1/2P at the end of the day is just a better goal kicking replacement for Liam W.

Jury out but undoubtedly the most progressive Region with a performing squad and an excellent Coach and apparently a fine ambiance with a business aspect Achilles heel.

Llanelli fans ... vote with your feet and attract some people that matter ... Sponsors and investors.

They already have attracted them. The investors cover the losses and are comfortable with current accounts. According to Short the Commercial sponsorship is comparable to the best rugby teams in the UK.

They're expecting a significant uplift in TV money from 2018. At the moment it's difficult to criticise the board for their strategy. I was told some months ago that there was no problem covering the losses in the medium term and if the opportunity to sign a strategically important player came up, funds would be made available to Pivac.

Lo and behold this was what happened. Before 1/2p signed they already had the biggest playing budget of the Welsh teams. They're doing exactly what many moaners on here asked for - putting their hands in their pockets.

The short term goal is to be in a strong position for 2020 when the next big shake up in club rugby is due.


This is what the last filed accounts stated :

PS ... there should be another soon?

This available 'free' from Co Accts

here

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisat ... nies-house

and follow find information



Image



There is no doubt, the accounts are not pretty.
That said I can see wasps point. Look at saracens the recently the most successful team in Europe and they have huge debts and big losses each year. (Largely due to ignoring the wage cap) They are entirely reliant on their South African backers and seem unlikely to increase attendance.

The Scarlets are still in fully realism on there's and need to do more to increase attendance hopefully halfpenny signing will helpthe

The biggest problem for the pro12 teams is the vast difference in TV revenue between the leagues. I would like to see the now Pro14 sell the rights to Sky (who I believe have some partnership with SA Super Sports) and limit the games shown to 3 a weekend. I think sky would pay significantly more than the current broadcasters and it would help drive attendance (currently just about every regionally game is televised) and personally I think that would push more people to games.

I can see why the finding directors are taking the attitude they are as there a new TV contract could be a game changer for all Celtic teams.


Thu Aug 03, 2017 8:59 pm
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Post Re: Leigh Halfpenny poised to join Scarlets on dual contract
Scarletrover wrote:
To a large extent standard disclaimers from the accountants.

Not being flippant here, just factual.


That is true in general, ....it is the extent and consistency is the issue and that is why I added the part about the stadium. The Annual Account should be read in total to get the full flavour.

I think in return that this 'investment' banter is being overplayed, ... it is the WRU that is making the major investment and they will own the 'asset'

It is a bonus in terms of goal kicking but otherwise a replacement for Liam W who was favoured in the Lions set up.

The Scarlets are well set up on the field and look well set, I dont believe some of the quotes about sponsors ....it diesn't add up.

Meanwhile the opposition isn't standing still.

Attendance were poor last Season and this Season must show a big improvement....not so much in gate revenue terms but attraction to sponsors and potential investors ...drab crowds are not a popular factor in that respect.k

I sincerely wish the Scarlets well and my posting history shows that although I remain skeptical about the overall Regional position and the Scarlets are part of that from a business point of view...I compliment them and don't have any bias against them, in fact the reverse.

I also wish that some people would offer kinder words to the Union who seem closer now to a better working relationship incl the 1/2p transfer which is an example.

At the end of the day though it should also be remembered that if the drums are right ...1/2p and his agent psinted themselves into a corner.

Happy days!

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Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:42 pm
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Post Re: Leigh Halfpenny poised to join Scarlets on dual contract
ben606 wrote:


There is no doubt, the accounts are not pretty.
That said I can see wasps point. Look at saracens the recently the most successful team in Europe and they have huge debts and big losses each year. (Largely due to ignoring the wage cap) They are entirely reliant on their South African backers and seem unlikely to increase attendance.

The Scarlets are still in fully realism on there's and need to do more to increase attendance hopefully halfpenny signing will helpthe

The biggest problem for the pro12 teams is the vast difference in TV revenue between the leagues. I would like to see the now Pro14 sell the rights to Sky (who I believe have some partnership with SA Super Sports) and limit the games shown to 3 a weekend. I think sky would pay significantly more than the current broadcasters and it would help drive attendance (currently just about every regionally game is televised) and personally I think that would push more people to games.

I can see why the finding directors are taking the attitude they are as there a new TV contract could be a game changer for all Celtic teams.


Some wise words Ben, ...especially regarding revenue stream. A broader Conference set up which I hope for will help that.

Saracens consortium was a long game investment broader than just Saracens imo.

It was SA venture and outlooking a scenario which we can now see on the horizon. SA business commercial and otherwise is interested in N Hemp presence. Sponsorship would have a much bigger market in the N Hemp especially when one considers off the field clout and opportunity.

Other than paying large deficits Saracens have achieved much ....they are the best team in N Hemp for sure, they invested widely in their small ground and it has widespread facilities, ...they can also fill Twickers almost at the drop of a hat for important games.

I'm not fully aware of the extent of the financial backers but it is considerably more than the Regions.

As reported on here there are now billionairs investing in rugby and they are not sugar daddies....they are integrating their business interests with rugby and have ulterior motives.

One has to put the likes of Scarlets in the context of these heavily backed initiatives.

I've oft said thst the likes of Cardiff are good ground for investment but the infighting morass and poor publicity and wrangling is a downer and the fans dont help that much either.

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ImageEasy to consider past and present, it's the future and associated plan and strategy to achieve that takes the talent ..


Thu Aug 03, 2017 9:58 pm
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Post Re: Leigh Halfpenny poised to join Scarlets on dual contract
Tony Panties wrote:
wasp wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
Langland Exile wrote:
Good to see a regional team invest for success.


That is a little tongue in cheek??

Undoubtedly Scarlets have built a successful squad and recruited a fine architect in the Coach.

Scores on the doors and an impressive performance and they are set up well for some progression this Season.
They have spent well but the Pro world has another aspect... paying the piper.
A 1.5m previous deficit and a shaky going concern cannot be swept away.

They have truly built a fine squad and importantly seem to have developed a team ethic and a squad well motivated.

The best investment has been Pivac and the development of Stephen Jones alongside

On the subject of investment there has been criticism from Scarlet supporters on the allocation of DCs ... maybe some recognition of WRU investment in JD and 1/2P should also be recognised.

Now the important phase : consolidation of their on the field performance and broader success and a turnaround in the business side.

I feel that they could be truly progressive but with a nagging doubt if the financials will be sufficient. Progressive teams also suffer talent spotting and big cheques and that includes the Coach ... 1/2P at the end of the day is just a better goal kicking replacement for Liam W.

Jury out but undoubtedly the most progressive Region with a performing squad and an excellent Coach and apparently a fine ambiance with a business aspect Achilles heel.

Llanelli fans ... vote with your feet and attract some people that matter ... Sponsors and investors.

They already have attracted them. The investors cover the losses and are comfortable with current accounts. According to Short the Commercial sponsorship is comparable to the best rugby teams in the UK.

They're expecting a significant uplift in TV money from 2018. At the moment it's difficult to criticise the board for their strategy. I was told some months ago that there was no problem covering the losses in the medium term and if the opportunity to sign a strategically important player came up, funds would be made available to Pivac.

Lo and behold this was what happened. Before 1/2p signed they already had the biggest playing budget of the Welsh teams. They're doing exactly what many moaners on here asked for - putting their hands in their pockets.

The short term goal is to be in a strong position for 2020 when the next big shake up in club rugby is due.


This is what the last filed accounts stated :

PS ... there should be another soon?

This available 'free' from Co Accts

here

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisat ... nies-house

and follow find information



Image

You really are an arrogant *prk* Tel. Believe it or not you're not the only person who can find company accounts. As usual, your response bears no relevance to what I said above. No one is disputing the losses, common as they are in sports teams.


Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:45 pm
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Post Re: Leigh Halfpenny poised to join Scarlets on dual contract
Tony Panties wrote:
ben606 wrote:


There is no doubt, the accounts are not pretty.
That said I can see wasps point. Look at saracens the recently the most successful team in Europe and they have huge debts and big losses each year. (Largely due to ignoring the wage cap) They are entirely reliant on their South African backers and seem unlikely to increase attendance.

The Scarlets are still in fully realism on there's and need to do more to increase attendance hopefully halfpenny signing will helpthe

The biggest problem for the pro12 teams is the vast difference in TV revenue between the leagues. I would like to see the now Pro14 sell the rights to Sky (who I believe have some partnership with SA Super Sports) and limit the games shown to 3 a weekend. I think sky would pay significantly more than the current broadcasters and it would help drive attendance (currently just about every regionally game is televised) and personally I think that would push more people to games.

I can see why the finding directors are taking the attitude they are as there a new TV contract could be a game changer for all Celtic teams.


Some wise words Ben, ...especially regarding revenue stream. A broader Conference set up which I hope for will help that.

Saracens consortium was a long game investment broader than just Saracens imo.

It was SA venture and outlooking a scenario which we can now see on the horizon. SA business commercial and otherwise is interested in N Hemp presence. Sponsorship would have a much bigger market in the N Hemp especially when one considers off the field clout and opportunity.

Other than paying large deficits Saracens have achieved much ....they are the best team in N Hemp for sure, they invested widely in their small ground and it has widespread facilities, ...they can also fill Twickers almost at the drop of a hat for important games.

I'm not fully aware of the extent of the financial backers but it is considerably more than the Regions.

As reported on here there are now billionairs investing in rugby and they are not sugar daddies....they are integrating their business interests with rugby and have ulterior motives.

One has to put the likes of Scarlets in the context of these heavily backed initiatives.

I've oft said thst the likes of Cardiff are good ground for investment but the infighting morass and poor publicity and wrangling is a downer and the fans dont help that much either.

Hmm. Not that wise. Sky are the current broadcaster and anyone with a calculator and google can work out that attendances, whilst nice to have, are not the holy grail. sponsorship, hospitality and TV money are the major factors. Indeed this is evident from Sarries being happy with a relatively small capacity ground.


Thu Aug 03, 2017 10:53 pm
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Post Re: Leigh Halfpenny poised to join Scarlets on dual contract
wasp wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
ben606 wrote:


There is no doubt, the accounts are not pretty.
That said I can see wasps point. Look at saracens the recently the most successful team in Europe and they have huge debts and big losses each year. (Largely due to ignoring the wage cap) They are entirely reliant on their South African backers and seem unlikely to increase attendance.

The Scarlets are still in fully realism on there's and need to do more to increase attendance hopefully halfpenny signing will helpthe

The biggest problem for the pro12 teams is the vast difference in TV revenue between the leagues. I would like to see the now Pro14 sell the rights to Sky (who I believe have some partnership with SA Super Sports) and limit the games shown to 3 a weekend. I think sky would pay significantly more than the current broadcasters and it would help drive attendance (currently just about every regionally game is televised) and personally I think that would push more people to games.

I can see why the finding directors are taking the attitude they are as there a new TV contract could be a game changer for all Celtic teams.


Some wise words Ben, ...especially regarding revenue stream. A broader Conference set up which I hope for will help that.

Saracens consortium was a long game investment broader than just Saracens imo.

It was SA venture and outlooking a scenario which we can now see on the horizon. SA business commercial and otherwise is interested in N Hemp presence. Sponsorship would have a much bigger market in the N Hemp especially when one considers off the field clout and opportunity.

Other than paying large deficits Saracens have achieved much ....they are the best team in N Hemp for sure, they invested widely in their small ground and it has widespread facilities, ...they can also fill Twickers almost at the drop of a hat for important games.

I'm not fully aware of the extent of the financial backers but it is considerably more than the Regions.

As reported on here there are now billionairs investing in rugby and they are not sugar daddies....they are integrating their business interests with rugby and have ulterior motives.

One has to put the likes of Scarlets in the context of these heavily backed initiatives.

I've oft said thst the likes of Cardiff are good ground for investment but the infighting morass and poor publicity and wrangling is a downer and the fans dont help that much either.

Hmm. Not that wise. Sky are the current broadcaster and anyone with a calculator and google can work out that attendances, whilst nice to have, are not the holy grail. sponsorship, hospitality and TV money are the major factors. Indeed this is evident from Sarries being happy with a relatively small capacity ground.


True but they only have a smallish piece of the pie and are likely to spend more for exclusive rights. Espiceally as they will want an alternatively to BT for rugby. I think it is hard to find investors at the level that are in France and England and currently TV cash is the best alternative. When looking at the leagues as a whole TV rev is the biggest difference.

Tony
I get the wider view with saracens although I would wonder how long their plan is ? There is a lot of debt and there making a significant loss each year despite success. From this venture it's going to take this consortium a long time to make money - if that is indeed there aim.
There must be some deep pockets within the group to keep with it.


Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:28 pm
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Post Re: Leigh Halfpenny poised to join Scarlets on dual contract
Tony Panties wrote:
Scarletrover wrote:
To a large extent standard disclaimers from the accountants.

Not being flippant here, just factual.


That is true in general, ....it is the extent and consistency is the issue and that is why I added the part about the stadium. The Annual Account should be read in total to get the full flavour.

I think in return that this 'investment' banter is being overplayed, ... it is the WRU that is making the major investment and they will own the 'asset'

It is a bonus in terms of goal kicking but otherwise a replacement for Liam W who was favoured in the Lions set up.

The Scarlets are well set up on the field and look well set, I dont believe some of the quotes about sponsors ....it diesn't add up.

Meanwhile the opposition isn't standing still.

Attendance were poor last Season and this Season must show a big improvement....not so much in gate revenue terms but attraction to sponsors and potential investors ...drab crowds are not a popular factor in that respect.


Standing still is the key phrase, for although the Halfpenny signing is definitely a coup in real terms all it has really done is covered the departure of Liam Williams. The Scarlets finished last season brilliantly and signed off by dismantling each of their fellow top four sides. Pivac has done a very good job there (along with S Jones and others), the squad has a good balance age wise and everything was in place to take things to the next level.

In a parallel universe, this summer would have been the time to show some ambition by going big and taking that next step up by not only replacing Liam Williams with a quality player like Halfpenny, but also adding similar quality players in a number of positions. A number of factors (some they don't have control over) mean that of course is not possible and they, like the other Welsh sides have to live by their means. I think the addition of Halfpenny and a couple of other top quality players (a wing, eight and second row maybe) could have really seen the Scarlets make that next step into Pro14 home semi final and RCC knockout stages territory.

As for the crowds, I'm not sure about that particular issue as I do believe that the stadium is too big. It makes it look like the crowds are low, but that might be the level of support they get and it is a decent level for them. They would have been far better making the capacity of that stadium a little smaller, with the option of temporarily increasing it for the bigger games (Ospreys etc.).


Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:30 am
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Post Re: Leigh Halfpenny poised to join Scarlets on dual contract
Tony Panties wrote:
Scarletrover wrote:
To a large extent standard disclaimers from the accountants.

Not being flippant here, just factual.


That is true in general, ....it is the extent and consistency is the issue and that is why I added the part about the stadium. The Annual Account should be read in total to get the full flavour.

I think in return that this 'investment' banter is being overplayed, ... it is the WRU that is making the major investment and they will own the 'asset'

It is a bonus in terms of goal kicking but otherwise a replacement for Liam W who was favoured in the Lions set up.

The Scarlets are well set up on the field and look well set, I dont believe some of the quotes about sponsors ....it diesn't add up.

Meanwhile the opposition isn't standing still.

Attendance were poor last Season and this Season must show a big improvement....not so much in gate revenue terms but attraction to sponsors and potential investors ...drab crowds are not a popular factor in that respect.


Edit - double post.


Fri Aug 04, 2017 9:30 am
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