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SA Sides to P12? 
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Post Re: SA Sides to P12?
They won't have too. Newport, sorry The Dragons, will be kept alive until the next RSA negotiation when they'll be shit canned, Cardiff, Osprey's and Llanelli stay.

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Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:30 am
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Post Re: SA Sides to P12?
The Abominable Dr. Phibes wrote:
tom21 wrote:
I think the big challenge for the Pro14 going forward is to try and convince the rest of the South African sides to join when their Super Rugby deal is up in 2020. If all six were in from then, it might be possible to start putting together conferences that limit the travelling a bit. For example, if we go down to two pro teams in 2020 (as is being speculated) and the other South African sides join, you could have two conferences of 8 looking like (East Wales, West Wales, Munster, Leinster, Ulster, Glasgow, Edinburgh and the South African six + two Italians or one Italian plus another side). I wonder if the Argentinian side might also consider jumping ship from Super Rugby, seeing as their timezone is more suited to a NH schedule. There might be a possibility of them also playing a few games in Spain to ease the travelling.

I think the Pro14 administration have got to be proactive in trying to strengthen the tournament and should be eyeing up some of the Super Rugby teams going forward.


How would the Ospreys, and in particular Cardiff and the Scarlets be persuaded to shut down and be absorbed into two teams?? It wouldn't bother me in the slightest you understand, I'm just looking back at the hullabaloo Cardiff and Llanelli made when the "regions" were being formed, they demanded to stand alone, how would they be convinced otherwise in this instance?
For what its worth I believe something along the lines of what you suggest needs to happen, as there are too many rugby fans in Wales who feel they cannot support one of the so called "regions".


I'm not sure there will be any choice to be honest. From what I have been reading from various sources over the past few months, there seems to be a general acceptance in certain circles that only two teams may be sustainable going forward from 2020 (due to things like wage inflation etc.).


Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:29 am
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Post Re: SA Sides to P12?
The Abominable Dr. Phibes wrote:
tom21 wrote:
I think the big challenge for the Pro14 going forward is to try and convince the rest of the South African sides to join when their Super Rugby deal is up in 2020. If all six were in from then, it might be possible to start putting together conferences that limit the travelling a bit. For example, if we go down to two pro teams in 2020 (as is being speculated) and the other South African sides join, you could have two conferences of 8 looking like (East Wales, West Wales, Munster, Leinster, Ulster, Glasgow, Edinburgh and the South African six + two Italians or one Italian plus another side). I wonder if the Argentinian side might also consider jumping ship from Super Rugby, seeing as their timezone is more suited to a NH schedule. There might be a possibility of them also playing a few games in Spain to ease the travelling.

I think the Pro14 administration have got to be proactive in trying to strengthen the tournament and should be eyeing up some of the Super Rugby teams going forward.


How would the Ospreys, and in particular Cardiff and the Scarlets be persuaded to shut down and be absorbed into two teams?? It wouldn't bother me in the slightest you understand, I'm just looking back at the hullabaloo Cardiff and Llanelli made when the "regions" were being formed, they demanded to stand alone, how would they be convinced otherwise in this instance?
For what its worth I believe something along the lines of what you suggest needs to happen, as there are too many rugby fans in Wales who feel they cannot support one of the so called "regions".


Edit - double post


Tue Jul 25, 2017 10:29 am
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Cheetahs had a good opener win in Round1 of the Currie Cup. Their team is a bit stronger in this than it was in the S18
Finished 13-th out of 18 in the SH Super18 and Kings finished 11-th out of the 18 teams in the Super18
Their coach says adaptations for the Pro12 is needed from them

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Springbo ... h-20170725

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Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:55 pm
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Post Re: SA Sides to P12?
tom21 wrote:

I'm not sure there will be any choice to be honest. From what I have been reading from various sources over the past few months, there seems to be a general acceptance in certain circles that only two teams may be sustainable going forward from 2020 (due to things like wage inflation etc.).


Its been that way for years due to the small player pool

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Tue Jul 25, 2017 4:22 pm
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Post Re: SA Sides to P12?
Fids the Blindside wrote:
tom21 wrote:

I'm not sure there will be any choice to be honest. From what I have been reading from various sources over the past few months, there seems to be a general acceptance in certain circles that only two teams may be sustainable going forward from 2020 (due to things like wage inflation etc.).


Its been that way for years due to the small player pool


My one concern with going down to two teams would be the potential lack of opportunities for younger players. I would say three would be a better number in that regards, but from what I've read that doesn't seem possible.


Tue Jul 25, 2017 11:58 pm
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Post Re: SA Sides to P12?
By that logic the 4 sides we aleady have should be churning young players out.

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Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:32 am
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Post Re: SA Sides to P12?
Fids the Blindside wrote:
By that logic the 4 sides we aleady have should be churning young players out.


To be fair Fids, there have been quite a few come through the ranks over the past decade, particularly from three out of the four. Even then, the Dragons have produced Faletau and Lydiate, who until the latter began having injury problems, were central components of the national side.

There would be positions where we would probably struggle to have enough quality for two teams, but there would be a backlog in others which would limit opportunities for younger players to come through.


Wed Jul 26, 2017 12:24 pm
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Post Re: SA Sides to P12?
It would be interesting if someone could analyse the likely change in numbers of players coming through to the national side based on whether there are two, three or four regions. Also number of players versus quality of players based on the 2, 3 or 4 region options.

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Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:09 pm
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Post Re: SA Sides to P12?
its a bit more complicated than that.

Player numbers in schools is a good place to start

Player drop off after being perceived to have failed when they don't get an academy place is another

A place in a P12 side should be the ultimate aim (less International of course but one step at a time) A place in a P12 side should not be seen as a development tool.

It could be argued that too many places at the top breeds a culture of cushy

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Wed Jul 26, 2017 4:23 pm
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Post Re: SA Sides to P12?
Yes I agree with all of that Fids. I guess I was just trying to raise a debate on how the number of regions affect the national side. There are too many factors involved for this to be an easy question to answer.

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Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:40 am
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Post Re: SA Sides to P12?
ICEverything wrote:
Yes I agree with all of that Fids. I guess I was just trying to raise a debate on how the number of regions affect the national side. There are too many factors involved for this to be an easy question to answer.


It's a good question ICE. I suppose it is more prevalent to younger pro players really and their chances to play first team rugby on a regular basis. If they spend most of their early 20's sat on the bench, are they going to develop in the same way they would if they are playing first team rugby regularly?


Fri Jul 28, 2017 1:39 pm
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Post Re: SA Sides to P12?
The second tier ignored as usual

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Fri Jul 28, 2017 2:45 pm
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Post Re: SA Sides to P12?
The title of the thread is Pro12.

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Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:15 pm
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Post Re: SA Sides to P12?
Fids the Blindside wrote:
The second tier ignored as usual


The second tier isn't fit for purpose Fids.


Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:38 pm
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