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SA Sides to P12? 
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Post Re: SA Sides to P12?
The derbies would stay a big part of the fixture list

Conference A. Conference B
Leinster. Munster
Ulster. Connacht
Ospreys. Scarlets
Blues. Dragons
Edinburgh. Glasgow
Zebre. Treviso
Cheetahs. Kings

Using Edinburgh as example fixture list
Home. Away
Leinster. Leinster
Ulster. Ulster
Ospreys. Ospreys
Blues. Blues
Zebre. Zebre
Cheetahs. Cheetahs
Glasgow. Glasgow
Munster. Connacht
Scarlets. Dragons
Kings. Treviso

By playing Glasgow home and away, means the 1876 Cup would still be played for.

The Welsh Xmas derbies would still be there as all four teams play each other at least once and then the East v West challenge is still in the fixtures.


Tue Jul 18, 2017 9:22 pm
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Post Re: SA Sides to P12?
Looks good to me, it will be an interesting season thats for sure.


Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:41 am
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Post Re: SA Sides to P12?
I think they are adding two extra fixtures after the 19 conference games. WalesOnline claimed that all the Welsh derbies would be retained and I read elsewhere it rumoured that the 1872 cup would be decided over three fixtures.

Basically you play two extra games against opposition from your own country in the opposite conference. In the case of Wales and Ireland this means you play the other two derbies you would otherwise miss - let's say Blues and Scarlets are both in conference A, so they play each other H&A. The Blues then play the Ospreys and Dragons Home OR away via the normal games against the other conference. THe two missing fixtures are the reverse fixtures against Blues and Dragons, so those are their extra fixtures.

For the countries with only two teams, it means you play three derbies, because you add an extra two games against your derby opponents to the only 1 you would paly in the regular fixtures (only 1, because they're not in your conference).

Makes a 21 game season, only 1 fewer than now. A Welsh side would play three extra games vs SA, two fewer against Irish, one fewer against each of Scotland and Italy.

The one downside is that because the season has an odd number of games, some sides will play more home games than others in a season; but this is not a big deal and you can balance it over seasons.

I would also guess that they will have the cross-conference games featuring SA sides at home in London (if they are still doing this). This means no European side will have to have more than one match in SA per season. That means each SA team will play three games in London for a total of 6 games.


Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:24 am
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Post Re: SA Sides to P12?
Maybe game 21 could be neutral venue, like the east v west challenge in Wales, the Irish could play in NE USA, etc.


Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:45 am
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Post Re: SA Sides to P12?
the Irish media are reporting that the Irish derbies will still be played, as the Munster v Leinster clash is far too lucrative to be given up. I am looking forward to this new league and it looks like it will increase TV money and general income so its an improvement. the league will not improve without change.

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Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:15 am
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Post Re: SA Sides to P12?
In practice it will be very similar to how it is now. The number of games will be roughly the same (21 as opposed to 22). We will just swap four games against Italian, Scottish and Irish sides for three games against South African ones.


Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:14 pm
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Post Re: SA Sides to P12?
Figaro wrote:
In practice it will be very similar to how it is now. The number of games will be roughly the same (21 as opposed to 22). We will just swap four games against Italian, Scottish and Irish sides for three games against South African ones.


Inevitable hiccups ....awkward initial timetable fits etc ...

But the significance is :

-Incresed revenue and international focus

-The progessive attempt at Conference set up

- The potential for N Hemp enlargement and inclusion of the other leagues if, as expected, the EPRC will adopt a similar set up incl the franglais. Currently the terms of reference of the EPRC is only those that are included in the 6 Nations.

-The potential exploitation of of w/wide time table into blocks if the World Rugby finally fulfill their promised delivery of this timetable.

-Thinking further ahead if the Pro 12 declared intention to include a losely coupled relationship transatlantically then a deeper seeding may well arrive which will encourage a deeper hierarchy of developing nations.

It appears to me that those with a 'long game' budiness plan like Saracens had their focus well placed.

I believe that the SA intent has been brewing/planned for some time.

Congrats to Pro12 / SA for this progessive set up!

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Wed Jul 19, 2017 12:53 pm
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Post Re: SA Sides to P12?
One should also post a more pessimistic note, recently .....

http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/40653822

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Wed Jul 19, 2017 2:44 pm
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Post Re: SA Sides to P12?
Further to my proposal, I think there would be a simple method of euro qualification

Top team from each conference qualify, (2 teams)

Winner of the 2v3 play off qualify (2 teams)

The losers of the 2v3 play off would play the 4th placed in each conference, winners qualify (2 teams)

Losers of play off have a final playoff for final place.

This way the 4th placed teams can both qualify.


Wed Jul 19, 2017 7:57 pm
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Post Re: SA Sides to P12?
Tony Panties wrote:
One should also post a more pessimistic note, recently .....

http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/40653822


I think that's probably more realistic.

It sounds like a dogs dinner to me, but it'll be interesting.

SA sides scraping around the bottom of the barrel to keep themselves afloat.

Last chance saloon here m' thinks.

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Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:41 pm
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Post Re: SA Sides to P12?
Steve T wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
One should also post a more pessimistic note, recently .....

http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/40653822


I think that's probably more realistic.

It sounds like a dogs dinner to me, but it'll be interesting.

SA sides scraping around the bottom of the barrel to keep themselves afloat.

Last chance saloon here m' thinks.


Steve ....current set up just a sprat to get the mackerel ....if SA migration continus.

Imo, EPCR intervention / positioning will be vital in order to increase the scope

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Thu Jul 20, 2017 4:44 pm
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Post Re: SA Sides to P12?
I have been following Welsh Rugby for way past 50 years, and have got to confess the new set up is to me as clear as mud. !!!!


Fri Jul 21, 2017 10:08 am
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Post Re: SA Sides to P12?
I think the big challenge for the Pro14 going forward is to try and convince the rest of the South African sides to join when their Super Rugby deal is up in 2020. If all six were in from then, it might be possible to start putting together conferences that limit the travelling a bit. For example, if we go down to two pro teams in 2020 (as is being speculated) and the other South African sides join, you could have two conferences of 8 looking like (East Wales, West Wales, Munster, Leinster, Ulster, Glasgow, Edinburgh and the South African six + two Italians or one Italian plus another side). I wonder if the Argentinian side might also consider jumping ship from Super Rugby, seeing as their timezone is more suited to a NH schedule. There might be a possibility of them also playing a few games in Spain to ease the travelling.

I think the Pro14 administration have got to be proactive in trying to strengthen the tournament and should be eyeing up some of the Super Rugby teams going forward.


Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:17 am
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Post Re: SA Sides to P12?
Steve T wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
One should also post a more pessimistic note, recently .....

http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/40653822


I think that's probably more realistic.

It sounds like a dogs dinner to me, but it'll be interesting.

SA sides scraping around the bottom of the barrel to keep themselves afloat.

Last chance saloon here m' thinks.


Not so sure Steve. They have their 4 main sides still in the Super Rugby competition and have the Currie Cup, so I see the other two in the Pro14 as very much testing the waters in the NH. They could have just cut them completely, so this is a risk free venture for them as I see it. If it fails, they still have Super Rugby and Currie Cup to fall back on. If, however, it succeeds, then I could see the moving lock, stock and barrel when their Super Rugby deal expires.


Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:28 am
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Post Re: SA Sides to P12?
tom21 wrote:
I think the big challenge for the Pro14 going forward is to try and convince the rest of the South African sides to join when their Super Rugby deal is up in 2020. If all six were in from then, it might be possible to start putting together conferences that limit the travelling a bit. For example, if we go down to two pro teams in 2020 (as is being speculated) and the other South African sides join, you could have two conferences of 8 looking like (East Wales, West Wales, Munster, Leinster, Ulster, Glasgow, Edinburgh and the South African six + two Italians or one Italian plus another side). I wonder if the Argentinian side might also consider jumping ship from Super Rugby, seeing as their timezone is more suited to a NH schedule. There might be a possibility of them also playing a few games in Spain to ease the travelling.

I think the Pro14 administration have got to be proactive in trying to strengthen the tournament and should be eyeing up some of the Super Rugby teams going forward.


How would the Ospreys, and in particular Cardiff and the Scarlets be persuaded to shut down and be absorbed into two teams?? It wouldn't bother me in the slightest you understand, I'm just looking back at the hullabaloo Cardiff and Llanelli made when the "regions" were being formed, they demanded to stand alone, how would they be convinced otherwise in this instance?
For what its worth I believe something along the lines of what you suggest needs to happen, as there are too many rugby fans in Wales who feel they cannot support one of the so called "regions".


Tue Jul 25, 2017 3:30 am
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