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Wales performance v Scarlets 
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Post Wales performance v Scarlets
Scarlets have got better and better throughout the season.

They have the Wales front row, one second choice lock for Wales,

One second choice 9, the two first choice centres and the FB/wing

Also, Shingler, Cubby, Boyde, Barclay, Patchell, and Steff Evans

none of whom seem worth a look on the int'l front, though a couple get to tour Japan with the A team.

Plus a couple of NZ lads who didn't make the top grade down there.

When they play for Scarlets, not only is it winning rugby, but also open fast rugby, enjoyable to watch, and to judge from the players' faces, enjoyable to play.
When they play for the national side, they are unadventurous and unimaginative to the point where other sides have long since worked them out and effectively neutralize them. Side to side stuff, precious little creative rugby.
Largely from the same players.
This can only be down to the coaches.
Is it now time to swap the national coaching set up?

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Sat May 20, 2017 12:41 pm
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Post Re: Wales performance v Scarlets
GATLAND OUT part 567296199536

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Sat May 20, 2017 12:59 pm
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Post Re: Wales performance v Scarlets
Big And Dull wrote:
GATLAND OUT part 567296199536


At least get a full time guy.. ;)

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Sat May 20, 2017 2:13 pm
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Post Re: Wales performance v Scarlets
Fattaff wrote:
Scarlets have got better and better throughout the season.

They have the Wales front row, one second choice lock for Wales,

One second choice 9, the two first choice centres and the FB/wing

Also, Shingler, Cubby, Boyde, Barclay, Patchell, and Steff Evans

none of whom seem worth a look on the int'l front, though a couple get to tour Japan with the A team.

Plus a couple of NZ lads who didn't make the top grade down there.

When they play for Scarlets, not only is it winning rugby, but also open fast rugby, enjoyable to watch, and to judge from the players' faces, enjoyable to play.
When they play for the national side, they are unadventurous and unimaginative to the point where other sides have long since worked them out and effectively neutralize them. Side to side stuff, precious little creative rugby.
Largely from the same players.
This can only be down to the coaches.
Is it now time to swap the national coaching set up?


Trying to directly compare club performances with international performances doesn't work. Ashton is a fantastic club winger but a shite international. Goode is a great club 15 but a crap international. Scarlets are also below the other teams around them in the table for bonus points. I'm pretty sure if you replaced the Welsh team with the Scarlets and put them up against international sides, they would perform worse than Wales do now.

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Sat May 20, 2017 2:20 pm
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Post Re: Wales performance v Scarlets
^^^^^^^

But one can call on examples ?

One of the things that has impressed me about Scarlets is the team aspect, they are motivated and there's a strong team ethic.

That goes above team skills and technical coaching ....it is e.g,imo, something Clermont lack, they've got it all, some of it in spades but that shit or bust or combine in extreme pressure they often lack.

Rugby is very much a team game and a combination of individual and unit skills but prime TEAM confidence and unity often the most difficult to achieve,

I sometimes wish that it was more present in the Welsh team who often look like "what do we do now" and somewhat 'fractured'

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Sat May 20, 2017 3:13 pm
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Post Re: Wales performance v Scarlets
Troron wrote:
Fattaff wrote:
Scarlets have got better and better throughout the season.

They have the Wales front row, one second choice lock for Wales,

One second choice 9, the two first choice centres and the FB/wing

Also, Shingler, Cubby, Boyde, Barclay, Patchell, and Steff Evans

none of whom seem worth a look on the int'l front, though a couple get to tour Japan with the A team.

Plus a couple of NZ lads who didn't make the top grade down there.

When they play for Scarlets, not only is it winning rugby, but also open fast rugby, enjoyable to watch, and to judge from the players' faces, enjoyable to play.
When they play for the national side, they are unadventurous and unimaginative to the point where other sides have long since worked them out and effectively neutralize them. Side to side stuff, precious little creative rugby.
Largely from the same players.
This can only be down to the coaches.
Is it now time to swap the national coaching set up?


Trying to directly compare club performances with international performances doesn't work. Ashton is a fantastic club winger but a shite international. Goode is a great club 15 but a crap international. Scarlets are also below the other teams around them in the table for bonus points. I'm pretty sure if you replaced the Welsh team with the Scarlets and put them up against international sides, they would perform worse than Wales do now.


However, it is worth noting that some of these players are playong better for their region than Wales. A few years ago it was the opposite.


Sat May 20, 2017 5:28 pm
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Post Re: Wales performance v Scarlets
Cymru am byth wrote:
Troron wrote:
Fattaff wrote:
Scarlets have got better and better throughout the season.

They have the Wales front row, one second choice lock for Wales,

One second choice 9, the two first choice centres and the FB/wing

Also, Shingler, Cubby, Boyde, Barclay, Patchell, and Steff Evans

none of whom seem worth a look on the int'l front, though a couple get to tour Japan with the A team.

Plus a couple of NZ lads who didn't make the top grade down there.

When they play for Scarlets, not only is it winning rugby, but also open fast rugby, enjoyable to watch, and to judge from the players' faces, enjoyable to play.
When they play for the national side, they are unadventurous and unimaginative to the point where other sides have long since worked them out and effectively neutralize them. Side to side stuff, precious little creative rugby.
Largely from the same players.
This can only be down to the coaches.
Is it now time to swap the national coaching set up?


Trying to directly compare club performances with international performances doesn't work. Ashton is a fantastic club winger but a shite international. Goode is a great club 15 but a crap international. Scarlets are also below the other teams around them in the table for bonus points. I'm pretty sure if you replaced the Welsh team with the Scarlets and put them up against international sides, they would perform worse than Wales do now.


However, it is worth noting that some of these players are playong better for their region than Wales. A few years ago it was the opposite.


Yes, valid point..

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Post Re: Wales performance v Scarlets
Troron wrote:
Fattaff wrote:
Scarlets have got better and better throughout the season.

They have the Wales front row, one second choice lock for Wales,

One second choice 9, the two first choice centres and the FB/wing

Also, Shingler, Cubby, Boyde, Barclay, Patchell, and Steff Evans

none of whom seem worth a look on the int'l front, though a couple get to tour Japan with the A team.

Plus a couple of NZ lads who didn't make the top grade down there.

When they play for Scarlets, not only is it winning rugby, but also open fast rugby, enjoyable to watch, and to judge from the players' faces, enjoyable to play.
When they play for the national side, they are unadventurous and unimaginative to the point where other sides have long since worked them out and effectively neutralize them. Side to side stuff, precious little creative rugby.
Largely from the same players.
This can only be down to the coaches.
Is it now time to swap the national coaching set up?


Trying to directly compare club performances with international performances doesn't work. Ashton is a fantastic club winger but a shite international. Goode is a great club 15 but a crap international. Scarlets are also below the other teams around them in the table for bonus points. I'm pretty sure if you replaced the Welsh team with the Scarlets and put them up against international sides, they would perform worse than Wales do now.


I agree with what you say up to a point, but not entirely. In fact, the particular examples you give are interesting. Ashton has scored loads of tries for England as well as Northampton and Saracens, but the reason he has been cast aside is much more due to his ill-discipline than lack of skills or ability. (On the other hand, the just-as-vile Dylan Hartley has been revived by Eddie Jones...) Alex Goode has indeed been a mystery as to why he has hardly been selected for England (the other one is try machine Christian Wade). As brilliant a coach as Eddie Jones is, it seems like he also has his favourites and stubborn opinions, just like Gatland and Howley do. As for your point about Scarlets' bonus points, what you say is technically true, BUT the difference is all of Scarlets' nine bonus points this season have been from tries, whereas the teams around them have a mixture of try and losing bonus points.


Sat May 20, 2017 11:28 pm
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Post Re: Wales performance v Scarlets
najbritcol wrote:
Troron wrote:
Fattaff wrote:
Scarlets have got better and better throughout the season.

They have the Wales front row, one second choice lock for Wales,

One second choice 9, the two first choice centres and the FB/wing

Also, Shingler, Cubby, Boyde, Barclay, Patchell, and Steff Evans

none of whom seem worth a look on the int'l front, though a couple get to tour Japan with the A team.

Plus a couple of NZ lads who didn't make the top grade down there.

When they play for Scarlets, not only is it winning rugby, but also open fast rugby, enjoyable to watch, and to judge from the players' faces, enjoyable to play.
When they play for the national side, they are unadventurous and unimaginative to the point where other sides have long since worked them out and effectively neutralize them. Side to side stuff, precious little creative rugby.
Largely from the same players.
This can only be down to the coaches.
Is it now time to swap the national coaching set up?


Trying to directly compare club performances with international performances doesn't work. Ashton is a fantastic club winger but a shite international. Goode is a great club 15 but a crap international. Scarlets are also below the other teams around them in the table for bonus points. I'm pretty sure if you replaced the Welsh team with the Scarlets and put them up against international sides, they would perform worse than Wales do now.


I agree with what you say up to a point, but not entirely. In fact, the particular examples you give are interesting. Ashton has scored loads of tries for England as well as Northampton and Saracens, but the reason he has been cast aside is much more due to his ill-discipline than lack of skills or ability. (On the other hand, the just-as-vile Dylan Hartley has been revived by Eddie Jones...) Alex Goode has indeed been a mystery as to why he has hardly been selected for England (the other one is try machine Christian Wade). As brilliant a coach as Eddie Jones is, it seems like he also has his favourites and stubborn opinions, just like Gatland and Howley do. As for your point about Scarlets' bonus points, what you say is technically true, BUT the difference is all of Scarlets' nine bonus points this season have been from tries, whereas the teams around them have a mixture of try and losing bonus points.


Ashton actually didn't score many tries for England. He scored 19 in 38 games. Seems impressive until you realise 7 of those were from 2 games (Italy and Romania) and only 8 were against teams that, at the time, were in the top 10 nations in the world. He also went a whole year and a half with England without scoring a try. Goode was selected for England, he has 21 caps, which is just a shade less than Watson and Nowell.

I maintain that if you took the Scarlets team and they played the teams Wales played, the results would be worse on average. Hell if you could clone players and have Scarlets playing Wales, I'd back Wales to win 9/10 times.

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Post Re: Wales performance v Scarlets
Troron wrote:
najbritcol wrote:
Troron wrote:
Fattaff wrote:
Scarlets have got better and better throughout the season.

They have the Wales front row, one second choice lock for Wales,

One second choice 9, the two first choice centres and the FB/wing

Also, Shingler, Cubby, Boyde, Barclay, Patchell, and Steff Evans

none of whom seem worth a look on the int'l front, though a couple get to tour Japan with the A team.

Plus a couple of NZ lads who didn't make the top grade down there.

When they play for Scarlets, not only is it winning rugby, but also open fast rugby, enjoyable to watch, and to judge from the players' faces, enjoyable to play.
When they play for the national side, they are unadventurous and unimaginative to the point where other sides have long since worked them out and effectively neutralize them. Side to side stuff, precious little creative rugby.
Largely from the same players.
This can only be down to the coaches.
Is it now time to swap the national coaching set up?


Trying to directly compare club performances with international performances doesn't work. Ashton is a fantastic club winger but a shite international. Goode is a great club 15 but a crap international. Scarlets are also below the other teams around them in the table for bonus points. I'm pretty sure if you replaced the Welsh team with the Scarlets and put them up against international sides, they would perform worse than Wales do now.


I agree with what you say up to a point, but not entirely. In fact, the particular examples you give are interesting. Ashton has scored loads of tries for England as well as Northampton and Saracens, but the reason he has been cast aside is much more due to his ill-discipline than lack of skills or ability. (On the other hand, the just-as-vile Dylan Hartley has been revived by Eddie Jones...) Alex Goode has indeed been a mystery as to why he has hardly been selected for England (the other one is try machine Christian Wade). As brilliant a coach as Eddie Jones is, it seems like he also has his favourites and stubborn opinions, just like Gatland and Howley do. As for your point about Scarlets' bonus points, what you say is technically true, BUT the difference is all of Scarlets' nine bonus points this season have been from tries, whereas the teams around them have a mixture of try and losing bonus points.


Ashton actually didn't score many tries for England. He scored 19 in 38 games. Seems impressive until you realise 7 of those were from 2 games (Italy and Romania) and only 8 were against teams that, at the time, were in the top 10 nations in the world. He also went a whole year and a half with England without scoring a try. Goode was selected for England, he has 21 caps, which is just a shade less than Watson and Nowell.

I maintain that if you took the Scarlets team and they played the teams Wales played, the results would be worse on average. Hell if you could clone players and have Scarlets playing Wales, I'd back Wales to win 9/10 times.


I completely disagree. Some of the Scarlets players are Lions and Welsh players. Some should be especially James Davies and Steff Evans!

It is a nonsensical what you are saying! The Scarlets have dispatched with ease the Ospreys, Leinster and now Munster! They have plenty of Lions in their ranks! Watching this turgind England v Baa Baas game says it all!!!

Wales need Pivac/jones/Hayward to manage and we would be up there with the All Blacks! Too much negativity being purveyed here - let us be pleased in the fact that the Scarklets are playing ASTONISHING rugby in this modern game!


Sun May 28, 2017 4:03 pm
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Post Re: Wales performance v Scarlets
Markdvdman wrote:
Troron wrote:
najbritcol wrote:
Troron wrote:
Fattaff wrote:
Scarlets have got better and better throughout the season.

They have the Wales front row, one second choice lock for Wales,

One second choice 9, the two first choice centres and the FB/wing

Also, Shingler, Cubby, Boyde, Barclay, Patchell, and Steff Evans

none of whom seem worth a look on the int'l front, though a couple get to tour Japan with the A team.

Plus a couple of NZ lads who didn't make the top grade down there.

When they play for Scarlets, not only is it winning rugby, but also open fast rugby, enjoyable to watch, and to judge from the players' faces, enjoyable to play.
When they play for the national side, they are unadventurous and unimaginative to the point where other sides have long since worked them out and effectively neutralize them. Side to side stuff, precious little creative rugby.
Largely from the same players.
This can only be down to the coaches.
Is it now time to swap the national coaching set up?


Trying to directly compare club performances with international performances doesn't work. Ashton is a fantastic club winger but a shite international. Goode is a great club 15 but a crap international. Scarlets are also below the other teams around them in the table for bonus points. I'm pretty sure if you replaced the Welsh team with the Scarlets and put them up against international sides, they would perform worse than Wales do now.


I agree with what you say up to a point, but not entirely. In fact, the particular examples you give are interesting. Ashton has scored loads of tries for England as well as Northampton and Saracens, but the reason he has been cast aside is much more due to his ill-discipline than lack of skills or ability. (On the other hand, the just-as-vile Dylan Hartley has been revived by Eddie Jones...) Alex Goode has indeed been a mystery as to why he has hardly been selected for England (the other one is try machine Christian Wade). As brilliant a coach as Eddie Jones is, it seems like he also has his favourites and stubborn opinions, just like Gatland and Howley do. As for your point about Scarlets' bonus points, what you say is technically true, BUT the difference is all of Scarlets' nine bonus points this season have been from tries, whereas the teams around them have a mixture of try and losing bonus points.


Ashton actually didn't score many tries for England. He scored 19 in 38 games. Seems impressive until you realise 7 of those were from 2 games (Italy and Romania) and only 8 were against teams that, at the time, were in the top 10 nations in the world. He also went a whole year and a half with England without scoring a try. Goode was selected for England, he has 21 caps, which is just a shade less than Watson and Nowell.

I maintain that if you took the Scarlets team and they played the teams Wales played, the results would be worse on average. Hell if you could clone players and have Scarlets playing Wales, I'd back Wales to win 9/10 times.


I completely disagree. Some of the Scarlets players are Lions and Welsh players. Some should be especially James Davies and Steff Evans!

It is a nonsensical what you are saying! The Scarlets have dispatched with ease the Ospreys, Leinster and now Munster! They have plenty of Lions in their ranks! Watching this turgind England v Baa Baas game says it all!!!

Wales need Pivac/jones/Hayward to manage and we would be up there with the All Blacks! Too much negativity being purveyed here - let us be pleased in the fact that the Scarklets are playing ASTONISHING rugby in this modern game!

Care to match any Welsh player with any NZ player hell even a 2nd choice NZ player how many Welsh players would come out on top? Thats not negativity thats reality, and I don't know if you ever watch Super Rugby almost all the NZ sides play like that
You would swear that The Scarlets have invented a new type of rugby

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Sun May 28, 2017 4:13 pm
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Post Re: Wales performance v Scarlets
Big And Dull wrote:
Markdvdman wrote:
Troron wrote:
najbritcol wrote:
Troron wrote:
Fattaff wrote:
Scarlets have got better and better throughout the season.

They have the Wales front row, one second choice lock for Wales,

One second choice 9, the two first choice centres and the FB/wing

Also, Shingler, Cubby, Boyde, Barclay, Patchell, and Steff Evans

none of whom seem worth a look on the int'l front, though a couple get to tour Japan with the A team.

Plus a couple of NZ lads who didn't make the top grade down there.

When they play for Scarlets, not only is it winning rugby, but also open fast rugby, enjoyable to watch, and to judge from the players' faces, enjoyable to play.
When they play for the national side, they are unadventurous and unimaginative to the point where other sides have long since worked them out and effectively neutralize them. Side to side stuff, precious little creative rugby.
Largely from the same players.
This can only be down to the coaches.
Is it now time to swap the national coaching set up?


Trying to directly compare club performances with international performances doesn't work. Ashton is a fantastic club winger but a shite international. Goode is a great club 15 but a crap international. Scarlets are also below the other teams around them in the table for bonus points. I'm pretty sure if you replaced the Welsh team with the Scarlets and put them up against international sides, they would perform worse than Wales do now.


I agree with what you say up to a point, but not entirely. In fact, the particular examples you give are interesting. Ashton has scored loads of tries for England as well as Northampton and Saracens, but the reason he has been cast aside is much more due to his ill-discipline than lack of skills or ability. (On the other hand, the just-as-vile Dylan Hartley has been revived by Eddie Jones...) Alex Goode has indeed been a mystery as to why he has hardly been selected for England (the other one is try machine Christian Wade). As brilliant a coach as Eddie Jones is, it seems like he also has his favourites and stubborn opinions, just like Gatland and Howley do. As for your point about Scarlets' bonus points, what you say is technically true, BUT the difference is all of Scarlets' nine bonus points this season have been from tries, whereas the teams around them have a mixture of try and losing bonus points.


Ashton actually didn't score many tries for England. He scored 19 in 38 games. Seems impressive until you realise 7 of those were from 2 games (Italy and Romania) and only 8 were against teams that, at the time, were in the top 10 nations in the world. He also went a whole year and a half with England without scoring a try. Goode was selected for England, he has 21 caps, which is just a shade less than Watson and Nowell.

I maintain that if you took the Scarlets team and they played the teams Wales played, the results would be worse on average. Hell if you could clone players and have Scarlets playing Wales, I'd back Wales to win 9/10 times.


I completely disagree. Some of the Scarlets players are Lions and Welsh players. Some should be especially James Davies and Steff Evans!

It is a nonsensical what you are saying! The Scarlets have dispatched with ease the Ospreys, Leinster and now Munster! They have plenty of Lions in their ranks! Watching this turgind England v Baa Baas game says it all!!!

Wales need Pivac/jones/Hayward to manage and we would be up there with the All Blacks! Too much negativity being purveyed here - let us be pleased in the fact that the Scarklets are playing ASTONISHING rugby in this modern game!

Care to match any Welsh player with any NZ player hell even a 2nd choice NZ player how many Welsh players would come out on top? Thats not negativity thats reality, and I don't know if you ever watch Super Rugby almost all the NZ sides play like that
You would swear that The Scarlets have invented a new type of rugby


I watch a LOT of the Super Rugby thank you! I have Sky Sports and BT Sports etc.

Point is Pivac has gone to NZ to learn the template. The Scarlets will improve but I cannot see Wales improving without a change in management!


Sun May 28, 2017 4:16 pm
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Post Re: Wales performance v Scarlets
Markdvdman wrote:
Big And Dull wrote:
Markdvdman wrote:
Troron wrote:
najbritcol wrote:
Troron wrote:
Fattaff wrote:
Scarlets have got better and better throughout the season.

They have the Wales front row, one second choice lock for Wales,

One second choice 9, the two first choice centres and the FB/wing

Also, Shingler, Cubby, Boyde, Barclay, Patchell, and Steff Evans

none of whom seem worth a look on the int'l front, though a couple get to tour Japan with the A team.

Plus a couple of NZ lads who didn't make the top grade down there.

When they play for Scarlets, not only is it winning rugby, but also open fast rugby, enjoyable to watch, and to judge from the players' faces, enjoyable to play.
When they play for the national side, they are unadventurous and unimaginative to the point where other sides have long since worked them out and effectively neutralize them. Side to side stuff, precious little creative rugby.
Largely from the same players.
This can only be down to the coaches.
Is it now time to swap the national coaching set up?


Trying to directly compare club performances with international performances doesn't work. Ashton is a fantastic club winger but a shite international. Goode is a great club 15 but a crap international. Scarlets are also below the other teams around them in the table for bonus points. I'm pretty sure if you replaced the Welsh team with the Scarlets and put them up against international sides, they would perform worse than Wales do now.


I agree with what you say up to a point, but not entirely. In fact, the particular examples you give are interesting. Ashton has scored loads of tries for England as well as Northampton and Saracens, but the reason he has been cast aside is much more due to his ill-discipline than lack of skills or ability. (On the other hand, the just-as-vile Dylan Hartley has been revived by Eddie Jones...) Alex Goode has indeed been a mystery as to why he has hardly been selected for England (the other one is try machine Christian Wade). As brilliant a coach as Eddie Jones is, it seems like he also has his favourites and stubborn opinions, just like Gatland and Howley do. As for your point about Scarlets' bonus points, what you say is technically true, BUT the difference is all of Scarlets' nine bonus points this season have been from tries, whereas the teams around them have a mixture of try and losing bonus points.


Ashton actually didn't score many tries for England. He scored 19 in 38 games. Seems impressive until you realise 7 of those were from 2 games (Italy and Romania) and only 8 were against teams that, at the time, were in the top 10 nations in the world. He also went a whole year and a half with England without scoring a try. Goode was selected for England, he has 21 caps, which is just a shade less than Watson and Nowell.

I maintain that if you took the Scarlets team and they played the teams Wales played, the results would be worse on average. Hell if you could clone players and have Scarlets playing Wales, I'd back Wales to win 9/10 times.


I completely disagree. Some of the Scarlets players are Lions and Welsh players. Some should be especially James Davies and Steff Evans!

It is a nonsensical what you are saying! The Scarlets have dispatched with ease the Ospreys, Leinster and now Munster! They have plenty of Lions in their ranks! Watching this turgind England v Baa Baas game says it all!!!

Wales need Pivac/jones/Hayward to manage and we would be up there with the All Blacks! Too much negativity being purveyed here - let us be pleased in the fact that the Scarklets are playing ASTONISHING rugby in this modern game!

Care to match any Welsh player with any NZ player hell even a 2nd choice NZ player how many Welsh players would come out on top? Thats not negativity thats reality, and I don't know if you ever watch Super Rugby almost all the NZ sides play like that
You would swear that The Scarlets have invented a new type of rugby


I watch a LOT of the Super Rugby thank you! I have Sky Sports and BT Sports etc.

Point is Pivac has gone to NZ to learn the template. The Scarlets will improve but I cannot see Wales improving without a change in management!

Why would Pivac go to NZ to learn the template he was already there

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Sun May 28, 2017 4:21 pm
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Post Re: Wales performance v Scarlets
Yikes, miss the point by a mile..

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Sun May 28, 2017 4:22 pm
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Post Re: Wales performance v Scarlets
You can't beat the one eyes for going over the top when they win something. Thank God the internet didn't exist during the 70's when Llanelli won all those Welsh Cups

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Sun May 28, 2017 4:24 pm
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