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Pro12 Growth 
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Post Re: Pro12 Growth
It seems odd that the Dragons outdraw the Ospreys, or does Judgement data skew that one?

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Tue Mar 28, 2017 5:15 pm
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Post Re: Pro12 Growth
In reply to the various questions posed

Yes,
You're quite right
Thanks Tony
I didn't - see above responses from other posters. It's simply a re-cast of the home attendances through the filter of the opposition team. However, I'd argue that the calibre/perception of the opposition does have some effect on attendance.

It's interesting that Munster have to play some games in Cork in the smaller Independent Park, and that the games they selected were all against Welsh teams. They also have picked Glasgow as the fourth game, not Zebre or Trevino. I have a data table with all of the info which I'll put up after Round 22.


Tue Mar 28, 2017 7:38 pm
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Post Re: Pro12 Growth
Langland Exile wrote:
It seems odd that the Dragons outdraw the Ospreys, or does Judgement data skew that one?


What Judgemnet data? That hasn't happened yet.


Tue Mar 28, 2017 7:39 pm
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Post Re: Pro12 Growth
Pot Hale wrote:
In reply to the various questions posed
It's interesting that Munster have to play some games in Cork in the smaller Independent Park, and that the games they selected were all against Welsh teams.


Is that just because Cork is more easily accessed from South Wales than Limerick is? For all the Irish teams Limerick is as easy to get to and you'd want the bigger stadium anyway, plus with Italian and Scottish teams coming from so far away anyway it doesn't really matter.


Wed Mar 29, 2017 9:26 am
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Post Re: Pro12 Growth
Figaro wrote:
Pot Hale wrote:
In reply to the various questions posed
It's interesting that Munster have to play some games in Cork in the smaller Independent Park, and that the games they selected were all against Welsh teams.


Is that just because Cork is more easily accessed from South Wales than Limerick is? For all the Irish teams Limerick is as easy to get to and you'd want the bigger stadium anyway, plus with Italian and Scottish teams coming from so far away anyway it doesn't really matter.


I doubt it. The number of travelling fans is negligible whether Cork or Limerick. It's the amount of home fans that matters. I'm surprised because I would have against Ospreys would be far more attractive than against Edinburgh, Treviso, Dragons or Zebre.


Wed Mar 29, 2017 2:46 pm
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Post Re: Pro12 Growth
Langland Exile wrote:
It seems odd that the Dragons outdraw the Ospreys, or does Judgement data skew that one?

Probably the opposition like seeing their team running in tries which is more likely to happen against the Dragons than the Ospreys!!

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Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:20 am
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Post Re: Pro12 Growth
Andrew (Scum V) wrote:
Langland Exile wrote:
It seems odd that the Dragons outdraw the Ospreys, or does Judgement data skew that one?

Probably the opposition like seeing their team running in tries which is more likely to happen against the Dragons than the Ospreys!!


No, it's just that the Ospreys have two Welsh derbies to play away (one of which will net them 60k+ for their away attendance) and the Dragons need to visit Edinburgh and Parma, both of which will drag their away attendance down. Plucking the stats form part way through the season like this isn't helpful because not everyone's played against the same teams. Over the whole season they will mostly average out., but even then there will be outliers e.g. the Italian sides will have above average away attendances, because they don't have as many away games against Italian sides as the other teams do (and the one game each they do have is better attended as it's a derby).


Fri Mar 31, 2017 9:38 am
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Post Re: Pro12 Growth
Figaro wrote:
Andrew (Scum V) wrote:
Langland Exile wrote:
It seems odd that the Dragons outdraw the Ospreys, or does Judgement data skew that one?

Probably the opposition like seeing their team running in tries which is more likely to happen against the Dragons than the Ospreys!!


No, it's just that the Ospreys have two Welsh derbies to play away (one of which will net them 60k+ for their away attendance) and the Dragons need to visit Edinburgh and Parma, both of which will drag their away attendance down. Plucking the stats form part way through the season like this isn't helpful because not everyone's played against the same teams. Over the whole season they will mostly average out., but even then there will be outliers e.g. the Italian sides will have above average away attendances, because they don't have as many away games against Italian sides as the other teams do (and the one game each they do have is better attended as it's a derby).



The Ospreys and Scarlets derive zero attendance benefit from the Judgement Day double header bonanza

This is a big sway in the attendance stats for Drags and Blues every Season and misrepresents their true stats.

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Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:13 am
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Post Re: Pro12 Growth
Tony Panties wrote:
The Ospreys and Scarlets derive zero attendance benefit from the Judgement Day double header bonanza

This is a big sway in the attendance stats for Drags and Blues every Season and misrepresents their true stats.


Judgement day counts as a home game for the Dregs and Blues, and an away game for the western sides. So it boosts the formers' home attendance (significantly) and the latter's away attendance, which is what we were talking about.


Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:28 am
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Post Re: Pro12 Growth
Figaro wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
The Ospreys and Scarlets derive zero attendance benefit from the Judgement Day double header bonanza

This is a big sway in the attendance stats for Drags and Blues every Season and misrepresents their true stats.


Judgement day counts as a home game for the Dregs and Blues, and an away game for the western sides. So it boosts the formers' home attendance (significantly) and the latter's away attendance, which is what we were talking about.


ok, swings roundabouts but imo away attendance 'value' is debatable....

As mentioned before .... the best value of attendance stats is trend but this often polluted by capacity increase too or offsite options.ô

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Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:43 am
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Post Re: Pro12 Growth
Yes, I was saying that myself a short while ago - I also question what Away Attendance really tells you; as every team plays every other team everyone ends up with a fairly similar total. I was just answering the poster who asked why it looks like the Dragons are a bigger draw than the Ospreys, the answer mainly being that the latter haven't yet played some big away games whilst the Dragons have still to play away to Zebre (which will get only 2k or so).


Fri Mar 31, 2017 10:59 am
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Post Re: Pro12 Growth
Pot Hale wrote:
In reply to the various questions posed

Yes,
You're quite right
Thanks Tony
I didn't - see above responses from other posters. It's simply a re-cast of the home attendances through the filter of the opposition team. However, I'd argue that the calibre/perception of the opposition does have some effect on attendance.

It's interesting that Munster have to play some games in Cork in the smaller Independent Park, and that the games they selected were all against Welsh teams. They also have picked Glasgow as the fourth game, not Zebre or Trevino. I have a data table with all of the info which I'll put up after Round 22.


They do alternate games at Independent Park, the previous season had Edinburgh, Treviso and for some reason Ospreys and Cardiff.

If your living in South Kerry or Waterford its a lot more easier to attend games in Cork than Limerick.


Fri Mar 31, 2017 2:29 pm
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Post Re: Pro12 Growth
Tony Panties wrote:
Figaro wrote:
Andrew (Scum V) wrote:
Langland Exile wrote:
It seems odd that the Dragons outdraw the Ospreys, or does Judgement data skew that one?

Probably the opposition like seeing their team running in tries which is more likely to happen against the Dragons than the Ospreys!!


No, it's just that the Ospreys have two Welsh derbies to play away (one of which will net them 60k+ for their away attendance) and the Dragons need to visit Edinburgh and Parma, both of which will drag their away attendance down. Plucking the stats form part way through the season like this isn't helpful because not everyone's played against the same teams. Over the whole season they will mostly average out., but even then there will be outliers e.g. the Italian sides will have above average away attendances, because they don't have as many away games against Italian sides as the other teams do (and the one game each they do have is better attended as it's a derby).



The Ospreys and Scarlets derive zero attendance benefit from the Judgement Day double header bonanza

This is a big sway in the attendance stats for Drags and Blues every Season and misrepresents their true stats.


Why include it at all?


Sun Apr 02, 2017 5:29 pm
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Post Re: Pro12 Growth
or just include it for all

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Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:24 pm
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Post Re: Pro12 Growth
http://www.planetrugby.com/news/ex-administrator-wants-sa-super-rugby-teams-in-pro12/

The two South African franchises that will be axed from Super Rugby at the end of this season could play in the PRO12 if a South African administrator has his way.

Tony McKeever, who was the Port Elizabeth-based Southern Spears chief executive, has proposed that the two South African sides take part in the Northern Hemisphere competition once SA Rugby confirms which teams that will be.

The Southern Spears franchise was formed in 2005 with the intention of playing Super Rugby from 2007 after a unanimous decision by SA Rugby's Presidents Council.

That never materialised, however, and the Spears ceased to exist before the Southern Kings was established in 2009.

The Cheetahs and Kings appear to be the sides most likely to be axed from Super Rugby this year and while McKeever agrees that those sides should leave Super Rugby, he feels they can play in the PRO12 which runs from September to May.

"With the size of the current Currie Cup and Super Rugby squads, both the Cheetahs and EP Rugby could easily accommodate this schedule and start playing in September 2017," he told Sport24.

McKeever urged SA Rugby to "accept the news and the fact that two teams are certainly going to be cut and move on, like right now.

"I have already engaged the PRO12 CEO Martin Anayi and proposed he take these two teams and rebrand this as PRO14 and let the Cheetahs and Eastern Province Rugby be a part of this tournament, which starts in September.

"Martin is a visionary and seeks to expand PRO12 into new markets and grow the PRO12 TV audiences and spectators. This is a perfect synergistic way to accomplish that with South African Rugby."

McKeever wants a new Eastern Province Rugby brand to be established as "the Kings brand is so tarnished and damaged beyond repair, like Chernobyl, that no sponsor or corporate would ever consider associating themselves with the Kings."

He believes the addition of the Cheetahs and Kings will be a shot in the arm for the PRO12.

"This would rejuvenate the PRO12/14 tournament with excitement," he added.

"The addition of two South African Super Rugby teams would increase TV viewership in Europe and South Africa and especially on-site spectator audiences coming to Bloemfontein and the (Nelson) Mandela Bay Stadium, to watch their teams play against teams from Ireland, Scotland, Wales and Italy, in this exciting tournament.

"It would be like the Cheetahs and EP Rugby each hosting six home 'Tests' a year."


Wed Apr 19, 2017 8:46 pm
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