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Pro12 Growth 
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World XV Player

Joined: Thu Dec 19, 2013 12:07 pm
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Post Re: Pro12 Growth
Higgik wrote:
The whole of European rugby needs to take a good look at itself with regard to finance.

Many English and French teams are relying on Sugar Daddies and are spending more than they earn.

The situation will end up like football where only a few teams can compete financially and the rest will either go bankrupt trying or admit that they are just feeder teams for the elite.

There needs to be a fair system in place like NFL where salary caps and revenue sharing create a competitive league.


Not sure if you have access, but that very topic is under discussion here ;

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=71519


Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:01 pm
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Schools District Player

Joined: Mon Apr 01, 2013 8:37 pm
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Post Re: Pro12 Growth
Thank you it looks really good forum, will read and message on it there


Sun Jan 15, 2017 5:05 pm
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World XV Player
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Post Re: Pro12 Growth
Llew wrote:
Higgik wrote:
The whole of European rugby needs to take a good look at itself with regard to finance.

Many English and French teams are relying on Sugar Daddies and are spending more than they earn.

The situation will end up like football where only a few teams can compete financially and the rest will either go bankrupt trying or admit that they are just feeder teams for the elite.

There needs to be a fair system in place like NFL where salary caps and revenue sharing create a competitive league.


Not sure if you have access, but that very topic is under discussion here ;

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=71519


FWIW Llew, I think the NFL system would be a welcome introduction to rugby or something quite similar.


Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:04 pm
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Post Re: Pro12 Growth
Llew wrote:
Higgik wrote:
The whole of European rugby needs to take a good look at itself with regard to finance.

Many English and French teams are relying on Sugar Daddies and are spending more than they earn.

The situation will end up like football where only a few teams can compete financially and the rest will either go bankrupt trying or admit that they are just feeder teams for the elite.

There needs to be a fair system in place like NFL where salary caps and revenue sharing create a competitive league.


Not sure if you have access, but that very topic is under discussion here ;

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=71519


FWIW Llew, I think the NFL system would be a welcome introduction to rugby or something quite similar.


Sun Jan 15, 2017 8:04 pm
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Post Re: Pro12 Growth
Overall attendance after Round 16 is now 762,209, an increase of 70,411 up to Round 16 of last season.

That breaks out by country thus:


C'try 15/16 16/17 Diff
Irl 329827 397715 67888
Wal 211192 230494 19302
Sco 102698 98899 -3799
Ita 48081 35101 -12980
70411


Sat Mar 04, 2017 3:06 pm
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Post Re: Pro12 Growth
PRO12 Home Attendance League by Stadium Capacity Use after Round 16.

I've taken in account where clubs have used other larger stadia - clearly this impacted on Edinburgh negatively where I've used the total capacity of 67,000. With their move to Myerside (5,500), they have moved to 85% of available capacity based on the two games played so far there. If I've got stadia capacity wrong, let me know.

Code:
Stadia Used   Team   Home Attendance   Games   Avg Crowd   Total Capacity Available   Season %
18000   Ulster   109,697   7    15,671    126,000   87%
8100   Connacht   50,150   8    6,269    64,800   77%
18,200/51,000    Leinster   134,746   8    16,843    178,400   76%
9708   Glasgow   50,721   7    7,246    67,956   75%
25600/8200   Munster   103,122   8    12,340    152,600   68%
12125   Cardiff   58,219   8    7,277    97,000   60%
8800   Dragons   36,399   8    4,620    70,400   52%
14800   Scarlets   52,855   8    6,483    118,400   45%
22000   Ospreys   83,021   9    9,485    198,000   42%
6700   Treviso   22,100   8    2,871    53,600   41%
5000   Zebre   13,001   7    2,000    35,000   37%
67,000/5500   Edinburgh    48,178   8    6,314    413,000   12%

And for those who want average attendance ranking, it looks like this:

   
Stadia   Team   Home Att   Games   Avg.   Capacity Available   Season %
18,200/51,000    Leinster   134,746   8    16,843   178,400   76%
18000   Ulster   109,697   7    15,671   126,000   87%
25600/8200   Munster   103,122   8    12,340   152,600   68%
22000   Ospreys   83,021   9    9,485   198,000   42%
12125   Cardiff   58,219   8    7,277   97,000   60%
9708   Glasgow   50,721   7    7,246   67,956   75%
14800   Scarlets   52,855   8    6,483   118,400   45%
67,000/5500   Edinburgh    48,178   8    6,314   413,000   12%
8100   Connacht    50,150   8    6,269   64,800   77%
8800   Dragons   36,399   8    4,620   70,400   52%
6700   Treviso   22,100   8    2,871   53,600   41%
5000   Zebre   13,001   7    2,000   35,000   37%


Sat Mar 04, 2017 3:10 pm
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Post Re: Pro12 Growth
ignore

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Sat Mar 04, 2017 3:19 pm
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Post Re: Pro12 Growth
Pls ignore previous post

Pot Hale wrote:
Overall attendance after Round 16 is now 762,209, an increase of 70,411 up to Round 16 of last season.

That breaks out by country thus:


C'try 15/16 16/17 Diff
Irl 329827 397715 67888
Wal 211192 230494 19302
Sco 102698 98899 -3799
Ita 48081 35101 -12980
70411


PH I cant relate to these #s, I haven't updated my stats to the last round but up to and including Round 15 the current Season to date compared with last Season overall shows :

Wales av down 13%
Irish av up 5%
Sco up 10%
Ita down 12%
Total 0.3% up

What are your equivalent stats up to and including R16 compared to last Seasons end

Obviously there's the quirk of judgement day excesses etc to come for Drags and Blues etc

PS I dont include play offs in this

(I wont update until monday to and incl Rd 17)

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Sat Mar 04, 2017 3:21 pm
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Post Re: Pro12 Growth
Tony Panties wrote:
Pls ignore previous post

Pot Hale wrote:
Overall attendance after Round 16 is now 762,209, an increase of 70,411 up to Round 16 of last season.

That breaks out by country thus:


C'try 15/16 16/17 Diff
Irl 329827 397715 67888
Wal 211192 230494 19302
Sco 102698 98899 -3799
Ita 48081 35101 -12980
70411


PH I cant relate to these #s, I haven't updated my stats to the last round but up to and including Round 15 the current Season to date compared with last Season overall shows :

Wales av down 13%
Irish av up 5%
Sco up 10%
Ita down 12%
Total 0.3% up

What are your equivalent stats up to and including R16 compared to last Seasons end

Obviously there's the quirk of judgement day excesses etc to come for Drags and Blues etc

PS I dont include play offs in this

(I wont update until monday to and incl Rd 17)


Oh - maybe my figures are wrong. I've compared same rounds - i.e. up to Round 16 this year vs up to Round 16 last year. Based on same games, the increase is about 30k to date.


Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:56 am
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Post Re: Pro12 Growth
Pot Hale wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
Pls ignore previous post

Pot Hale wrote:
Overall attendance after Round 16 is now 762,209, an increase of 70,411 up to Round 16 of last season.

That breaks out by country thus:


C'try 15/16 16/17 Diff
Irl 329827 397715 67888
Wal 211192 230494 19302
Sco 102698 98899 -3799
Ita 48081 35101 -12980
70411


PH I cant relate to these #s, I haven't updated my stats to the last round but up to and including Round 15 the current Season to date compared with last Season overall shows :

Wales av down 13%
Irish av up 5%
Sco up 10%
Ita down 12%
Total 0.3% up

What are your equivalent stats up to and including R16 compared to last Seasons end

Obviously there's the quirk of judgement day excesses etc to come for Drags and Blues etc

PS I dont include play offs in this

(I wont update until monday to and incl Rd 17)


Oh - maybe my figures are wrong. I've compared same rounds - i.e. up to Round 16 this year vs up to Round 16 last year. Based on same games, the increase is about 25k to date.


Sun Mar 05, 2017 2:02 am
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Post Re: Pro12 Growth
Tony - maybe another way of explaining what I've calculated.

These figures include attendances for Round 17 this weekend.

Comparing attendances with same matches as last season, here's how the four countries compare:

Ireland - 427,794 - up 23,626 on same games last season
Wales - 237,040 - up 5,259 on last season
Scotland - 109011 - up 1781 on last season
Italy - 35,101 - down 5,722 on last season.

That makes a total of 808,946 with a net increase of 24,944 on the same games last season.
I also worked out averages and comparisons with last season's end averages.

Ireland 50,700 - up 2,519 : 5.23%
Wales 27577 - down 5,063 : -(15.51%)
Scotland 12915 - up 630 : 5.13%
Italy - 4,629 - down 910 : (-16.44%)

Total 95,821 - down 2,824 : (-2.86%)

Another comparison is by Latest Round.
Last year up to end of Round 17 was 747,287
This year up to Round 17 is 808,946 - an increase of 61,659 on same time last season.


Sun Mar 05, 2017 3:52 am
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Post Re: Pro12 Growth
Pot Hale wrote:
Tony - maybe another way of explaining what I've calculated.

These figures include attendances for Round 17 this weekend.

Comparing attendances with same matches as last season, here's how the four countries compare:

Ireland - 427,794 - up 23,626 on same games last season
Wales - 237,040 - up 5,259 on last season
Scotland - 109011 - up 1781 on last season
Italy - 35,101 - down 5,722 on last season.

That makes a total of 808,946 with a net increase of 24,944 on the same games last season.
I also worked out averages and comparisons with last season's end averages.

Ireland 50,700 - up 2,519 : 5.23%
Wales 27577 - down 5,063 : -(15.51%)
Scotland 12915 - up 630 : 5.13%
Italy - 4,629 - down 910 : (-16.44%)

Total 95,821 - down 2,824 : (-2.86%)

Another comparison is by Latest Round.
Last year up to end of Round 17 was 747,287
This year up to Round 17 is 808,946 - an increase of 61,659 on same time last season.


Thks PH and apologies for causing extra work, appreciated :thumbup:

Yes our figures correspond.

It's debatable which way you take as the best tracking ? :

-Round against round may miss big irish matches especially dependent on comparison of fixture list

whilst

-End of Season does include the likes of Judgement day inflation but at the end of the day that's the target perspective.

PS I exclude play offs from Club comparisons because it's not apples and apples but do include it in the overall comparison y-o-y

I like your capacity v attendance stats and I'd like a copy of the Season end stats. I have the equivalent of French Top14 etc and it would be a good comparison opportunity.

I also track the Aviva equivalent

Maybe at the end of the Season we can share some data ... I use graphics to a large extent.

Good to talk to you! and thks for the update.

I'll be updating my stats probably tomorrow

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Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:18 pm
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Post Re: Pro12 Growth
The Guardian mentioned Houston and Toronto as the possible North American Franchises this week. I can understand Toronto but why Houston? No significant Irish community. Is it full of welsh or scots expats?


Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:24 pm
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Post Re: Pro12 Growth
Fingal wrote:
The Guardian mentioned Houston and Toronto as the possible North American Franchises this week. I can understand Toronto but why Houston? No significant Irish community. Is it full of welsh or scots expats?

I can tell you one thing ...it's full of some of the best laptop danciing Clubs, especially the 'back room' :D :thefinger:

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ImageEasy to consider past and present, it's the future and associated plan and strategy to achieve that takes the talent ..


Sun Mar 05, 2017 1:31 pm
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Post Re: Pro12 Growth
Tony Panties wrote:
Fingal wrote:
The Guardian mentioned Houston and Toronto as the possible North American Franchises this week. I can understand Toronto but why Houston? No significant Irish community. Is it full of welsh or scots expats?

I can tell you one thing ...it's full of some of the best laptop danciing Clubs, especially the 'back room' :D :thefinger:



Houston is a pretty awful place, hot and sticky, and dirty also. Has little rugby there so why would anyone select it?

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Sun Mar 05, 2017 4:13 pm
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