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Im beginning to dislike Women ? 
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Post Re: Im beginning to dislike Women ?
rugbydan wrote:
Cymru am byth wrote:
The point I'm making is that there is every reason to suspect that on average a richer person will get better qualifications. Qualifications are probably the single biggest determinant on getting a well paid job. They also strongly link to how well off your family is. This isn't fair, but what can an employer do? If the job requires high levels of qualifications, of course they are going to chose an applicant (generally speaking) with more qualifications. I repeat, this isn't fair, but how can there be any practical way of working out potential and how the breaks that the rich person had made a difference and how the poor person was held back?

To repeat, a male and a female apply for a job. If they have the same level of qualification, went to the same school, from the same area etc. It is possible that they had the same breaks. This is why I think it is probably easier to deal with discrimination in the workplace between men and women (on pay issues alone). There is probably less of a backstory to work through between men and women arriving at a job interview.


Salary is commensurate to experience. I have never ever seen anyone get paid a few grand more cos they got an extra A level. Youre salary isn't calculated on qualifications. where have u seen this happen?


Your salary has more bearings on qualifications than any other factor. Oxbridge graduates vs people without A-Levels or GCSEs earn more on average. NOTE, not everyone, but almost overwhelmingly, someone without any qualifications won't earn as much. Degrees give you an average earning of £16.10 an hour, no qualifications give you £6.93 (in 2010). NB, although the article says that 20% of graduates are earning less than those with just A-Levels, it means that 80% are earning more.

https://www.theguardian.com/news/databl ... gree-level

Poor kids are half as likely to get 5 GCSEs as richer children. They are less likely to go to university.

Therefore, for a job at sift, certainly at the early stage in their career. Straight from uni, you have an applicant with three As at A-Level, with an Oxbridge degree against an applicant with poor A-Levels and a degree from a bottom end university. With hundreds of applications for one job, the former is more likely to get an offer. They then get more experience and yes, in the latter stage of their career these two applicants will probably be in a more senior role and will have had better experience. Qualifications are the single easiest way to chose between two candidates at their early stage. Yes, you are are right, in the latter stage, experience is more important, but the person with the better qualifications will likely have had the extra boost at the beginning of the career.

Doctors have a much higher rate than someone with no GCSEs. They are also generally from better schools.

If you are born rich, you a likely to earn more. Something needs to be done about this. I am not defending it.


Sun Feb 18, 2018 10:54 pm
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Post Re: Im beginning to dislike Women ?
Blindside wrote:
I'm getting pissed off listening to "well-off" women talking about discrimination and talking about sexualized inappropriate behaviour. Yes something needs to be done and yes its wrong, but even the grey areas have become black, people are talking about signing a contract before having sex! Would suggesting the need for a contract itself be inappropriate as it would make a woman uncomfortable. It appears that the main women complaining about their lot are doing rather well......very highly paid capitalist women are not as highly paid as very highly paid men, well tough shit there's poverty all around us, old people in agony waiting for knees and hips they want "the market" to decide everything except women's wages. Its just that there is some much injustice and corruption in this country the bad beat that women occasionally get is low on my list of priorities. We sell arms to the Saudis who use them to bomb civilians in Yemen into mass starvation and cholera, hardly makes the news, however, a hand placed on a knee in parliament is headline news.

I don't think a man is better than a woman, indeed i spend half my life ingratiating myself to me wife merely for her to talk to me in a civil manner. I enjoy women's sport, i have worked with women and they are just as likely to be fantastic at their jobs as men. I respect women and have no issue in working under a woman (in any sense).

You never see an attractive young man married to a rich unattractive older woman :scratch:

:clap: :clap:


Sun Feb 18, 2018 11:14 pm
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Post Re: Im beginning to dislike Women ?
People with qualifications are often the worst people for a job out there as they are institutionalised, unable to think for themselves and are full of state propaganda.

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Mon Feb 19, 2018 8:32 am
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Post Re: Im beginning to dislike Women ?
Cymru am byth wrote:
LLanrumneyOik wrote:
Hubris.

The professor bit was not valid .. unless you mean an 'American professor' which means 'teacher' in the UK.


Not sure if you are referring to my post but I think you misread 'professional'?

Edit, Professor and in the UK is usually an experienced and bloody good Post doc (PhD) person. This is similar in the USA, but they tend to get their Professorships a lot earlier than in the UK.



yep I probably did ..I can't remember now but the forensics point to that :-)

My apologies ....

.. be fair though it was a big post to read through when pissed?
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Mon Feb 19, 2018 1:47 pm
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Post Re: Im beginning to dislike Women ?
trampie wrote:
People with qualifications are often the worst people for a job out there as they are institutionalised, unable to think for themselves and are full of state propaganda.



....and usually right wing too Tramps ;)

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Mon Feb 19, 2018 5:18 pm
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Post Re: Im beginning to dislike Women ?
trampie wrote:
People with qualifications are often the worst people for a job out there as they are institutionalised, unable to think for themselves and are full of state propaganda.


Those doctors with medical qualifications are useless! We would all prefer a doctor who made things up.

I also prefer my bridges to be built by someone with no knowledge of engineering.

I get what you are saying but it depends on the job in question. In a general sense though amd to turn around what you said 'qualifications are often the best means of determining the worth of a candidate for a certain job'.

Qualifications aren't without their issues but they do often demonstrate the comittment of someone and a sense of their ambition. Even if this is a certificate for a short course.

In a scarce job market, what criteria can you practically apply to distinguish between two candidates? All other values become too subjective.


Mon Feb 19, 2018 6:10 pm
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Post Re: Im beginning to dislike Women ?
Cymru am byth wrote:
trampie wrote:
People with qualifications are often the worst people for a job out there as they are institutionalised, unable to think for themselves and are full of state propaganda.


Those doctors with medical qualifications are useless! We would all prefer a doctor who made things up.

I also prefer my bridges to be built by someone with no knowledge of engineering.

I get what you are saying but it depends on the job in question. In a general sense though amd to turn around what you said 'qualifications are often the best means of determining the worth of a candidate for a certain job'.

Qualifications aren't without their issues but they do often demonstrate the comittment of someone and a sense of their ambition. Even if this is a certificate for a short course.

In a scarce job market, what criteria can you practically apply to distinguish between two candidates? All other values become too subjective.



Qualifications ALONE are not good. However Experience alone comes from being wrong many times.

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Mon Feb 19, 2018 7:50 pm
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Post Re: Im beginning to dislike Women ?
soap wrote:
Cymru am byth wrote:
trampie wrote:
People with qualifications are often the worst people for a job out there as they are institutionalised, unable to think for themselves and are full of state propaganda.


Those doctors with medical qualifications are useless! We would all prefer a doctor who made things up.

I also prefer my bridges to be built by someone with no knowledge of engineering.

I get what you are saying but it depends on the job in question. In a general sense though amd to turn around what you said 'qualifications are often the best means of determining the worth of a candidate for a certain job'.

Qualifications aren't without their issues but they do often demonstrate the comittment of someone and a sense of their ambition. Even if this is a certificate for a short course.

In a scarce job market, what criteria can you practically apply to distinguish between two candidates? All other values become too subjective.



Qualifications ALONE are not good. However Experience alone comes from being wrong many times.


Granted they are not the only answer but qualifications will likely get you your first job. They then give you more experience than the person who didn't get the job.

Most employers look for them. Most pupils and students work towards getting them.


Mon Feb 19, 2018 10:42 pm
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Post Re: Im beginning to dislike Women ?
soap wrote:
Cymru am byth wrote:
trampie wrote:
People with qualifications are often the worst people for a job out there as they are institutionalised, unable to think for themselves and are full of state propaganda.


Those doctors with medical qualifications are useless! We would all prefer a doctor who made things up.

I also prefer my bridges to be built by someone with no knowledge of engineering.

I get what you are saying but it depends on the job in question. In a general sense though amd to turn around what you said 'qualifications are often the best means of determining the worth of a candidate for a certain job'.

Qualifications aren't without their issues but they do often demonstrate the comittment of someone and a sense of their ambition. Even if this is a certificate for a short course.

In a scarce job market, what criteria can you practically apply to distinguish between two candidates? All other values become too subjective.



Qualifications ALONE are not good. However Experience alone comes from being wrong many times.


Edison said "I didn't fail 10,000 times, I found 10,000 ways that didn't work.


Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:38 pm
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Post Re: Im beginning to dislike Women ?
Justic wrote:
soap wrote:
Cymru am byth wrote:
trampie wrote:
People with qualifications are often the worst people for a job out there as they are institutionalised, unable to think for themselves and are full of state propaganda.


Those doctors with medical qualifications are useless! We would all prefer a doctor who made things up.

I also prefer my bridges to be built by someone with no knowledge of engineering.

I get what you are saying but it depends on the job in question. In a general sense though amd to turn around what you said 'qualifications are often the best means of determining the worth of a candidate for a certain job'.

Qualifications aren't without their issues but they do often demonstrate the comittment of someone and a sense of their ambition. Even if this is a certificate for a short course.

In a scarce job market, what criteria can you practically apply to distinguish between two candidates? All other values become too subjective.



Qualifications ALONE are not good. However Experience alone comes from being wrong many times.


Edison said "I didn't fail 10,000 times, I found 10,000 ways that didn't work.


That was then... now he would have had the sack after 10 or so :D.
I really do believe no knowledge is wasted. You learn what does not work as well as what does.

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Mon Feb 19, 2018 11:50 pm
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Post Re: Im beginning to dislike Women ?
Fingal wrote:
Bouch wrote:
Fingal wrote:
Bouch wrote:

You value physical work above technical ability?



Warehouse work requires greater technical ability.


Interesting thought that.

Who told you?


Well Bouch, how about you tell us first why you think a Tesco Supermarket worker is a more technical job than a Tesco warehouse worker? Now no cutting and pasting, all your own thinking. :thumbup:


Wow, a guestion for an answer. SHOCK. And a snide comment as an extra ...

Having actually been involved in staff issues, I'm amazed that you want to avoid the issues raised by me - I won't bore you with another list of what I did for trade unionists for 25 years but I will say this, you can't paint people as "He's Level this and She's Level that" in today's world.

A lot more people are unlikely to even be in unions these days - and more fool them.

HR used to be called "Management Services" and you always knew that, Fingal. Every day.

Get it? Change the name but that's the top and bottom of it.

They knew who their masters were.

:kermit:

As I've said repeatedly on here, Women are better than men.

Sadly, once they work for an organisation that won't countenance unions, they've already lost any advantage.

Pity that.

Don't bother to reply, Fingal.

Thanks.


Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:58 am
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Post Re: Im beginning to dislike Women ?
rugbydan wrote:
The issue thats been alleged is that lower paid roles are the roles often fulfilled by women, not that women are being paid less than men for doing the same job. This has been deliberately misinterpreted by the media to infer women are in general underpaid and are being exploited. No you're incorrect there. And you're not the only one by a long way. An analogy would be that you're one of those that can only see a vase in an image where others can see a vase and two people facing one another.

Its probably true to say that till jobs pay less than warehouse work. Its got nothing to do with gender, its simple economics. Lots of people can work behind a till, many cant work in a warehouse. Bolloxs :D try dealing with people it's much more demanding than dealing with boxes The work in a warehouse is physical, hard, unpleasant and soul destroying. *bull whips* :D look at the photo in the link below. Working on a till is just soul destroying hence it pays a bit less.

The issue here isnt about men and women .Yes it is. Men probably like moving pallets around with a machine more than women do and women probably like interacting with customers more than men do. But that's no reason to pay jobs than involve dealing with people less than pallet moving jobs if the jobs are EQUIVALENT. Read my first post to find out what equivalent jobs mean. Its about BIG companies who profile BILLIONS paying people shit wages which they cant live on. That includes warehouse workers. And it's opinions like yours that assist these BIG companies

All these blue collar wages are too low, not just the shop floor staff. But rather than face an issue lets all start a battle of the sexes. Divide and conquer.

Divide is exactly what you're doing. No solidarity against the owners. They love you for that.

https://www.thegrocer.co.uk/people/pay/ ... 74.article

Warehouse work isn't the brawny blokes carrying sacks of produce and pig carcasses on their shoulders in some dark damp building down the docks you seem to think it is.


Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:22 am
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Post Re: Im beginning to dislike Women ?
And another thing ;)
These comments against equal pay for equivalent jobs is based on fear.
Fear that the higher pay rates for jobs that are predominately done by men will be eroded over time. Warehouse and store staff get the same rate but effectively in the long term it will be a leveling down of warehouse rates rather than a leveling up of store rates.
It's a legitimate fear and it's the same fear that many men and the unions had when women demanded equal pay for the SAME job.
And it's those same arguments that are again being made against equal pay for EQUIVALENT jobs. They 're arguments based on self interest or sympathy for self interest.
And those arguments are essential to a divide and rule operation.


Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:42 am
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Post Re: Im beginning to dislike Women ?
Have you seen the extra long pallet trucks they use to move goods from the storeroom into the shop in large supermarkets, , I have never seen a woman using them , is the work equal.

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Tue Feb 20, 2018 10:53 am
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Post Re: Im beginning to dislike Women ?
eog wrote:
And another thing ;)
These comments against equal pay for equivalent jobs is based on fear.
Fear that the higher pay rates for jobs that are predominately done by men will be eroded over time. Warehouse and store staff get the same rate but effectively in the long term it will be a leveling down of warehouse rates rather than a leveling up of store rates.
It's a legitimate fear and it's the same fear that many men and the unions had when women demanded equal pay for the SAME job.
And it's those same arguments that are again being made against equal pay for EQUIVALENT jobs. They 're arguments based on self interest or sympathy for self interest.
And those arguments are essential to a divide and rule operation.



Exactly

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Tue Feb 20, 2018 12:15 pm
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