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Assisted dying. 
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Post Re: Assisted dying.
Blindside wrote:
Figaro wrote:
Quote:
if you were to fall and I fail to catch you, or if I pushed you


That's not the same though. Your failure to catch me could be because you tried and failed, because you were too far away, because you weren't strong enough, because you weren't fast enough, because you were worried you might get hurt yourself, etc. etc. - there are any number of reasons, many of them quite reasonable, as to why you might not act in that context, even if the end result - pushing or not catching - is the same.

The decision to euthanise as opposed to switch off life support leads to the same outcome for the patient, but the two options don't put any danger, difficulty or cost on the person making the decision other a perceived one.



You have complicated a simple example.... pushing and not catching may be the same to you, but there is a distinct difference in the eyes of the law. The fact that you think there should not be a difference is only your opinion. The fact that there is a difference is a fact. If you want to argue that there should be no difference then its totally different to arguing that there is not difference.


I was about to say-

Yes judge, I pushed him. its the same as if I didn't , or maybe didn't catch him.

Again one of those actual decisions I would not like to take in the above case, but in a court, distinct.

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Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:54 pm
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Post Re: Assisted dying.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that the difference isn't - or perhaps shouldn't be - between the starting conditions, but in the outcome.

In the man-on-the-tracks throught experiment (a train is rushing towards a Y-shaped junction. A man is tied to the tracks on one of the branches and you are standing next to the points and can divert the train by pulling the lever).

The train can be heading to one branch or the other of the Y. If it's heading towards the man, you have the power to save the man simply by pulling the lever. If it's heading towards the clear track, you have the power to murder the man simply by pulling the lever. The starting conditions are different but either way you can choose which of the two outcomes you want (the man lives or dies).

In this context I think most people would not make any real moral distinction between taking an action that causes death, and causing a death by refusing to take an action that came at no cost to oneself.


Thu Jul 20, 2017 11:00 am
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Post Re: Assisted dying.
Figaro wrote:
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that the difference isn't - or perhaps shouldn't be - between the starting conditions, but in the outcome.

In the man-on-the-tracks throught experiment (a train is rushing towards a Y-shaped junction. A man is tied to the tracks on one of the branches and you are standing next to the points and can divert the train by pulling the lever).

The train can be heading to one branch or the other of the Y. If it's heading towards the man, you have the power to save the man simply by pulling the lever. If it's heading towards the clear track, you have the power to murder the man simply by pulling the lever. The starting conditions are different but either way you can choose which of the two outcomes you want (the man lives or dies).

In this context, I think most people would not make any real moral distinction between taking an action that causes death and causing a death by refusing to take an action that came at no cost to oneself.



Your argument is then that there should be no difference, but you understand what the differences are.

I actually believe that people should if they so wish be allowed to end their life with dignity in extreme circumstances and be assisted in this. Indeedd when my father was unconscious hours from death i asked the doctor if i could remove the oxygen mask. My reason was to hasten his death, she gave no objection, did i hasten it, i have no idea.

Regards this child, morally we debate and have raised millions of pounds for a baby who will almost certainly have no quality of life, yet we express no outrage or are possibly unaware that over half a million children and babies who could live a healthy and productive life die of diarrhea each year. Over 3 million from malnutrition! Yet what is the cost of the court cases involved in keeping this child alive, how many children could be saved? Morality is difficult to quantify, it appears to me the facade of a moral compass in society, is more important than the existence of morality itself.

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Thu Jul 20, 2017 2:32 pm
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Post Re: Assisted dying.
That's another point of view, Blindside.

Here's the one you should live by.

Help those who need help, in your judgement, if you are able.

Turning a blind eye and walking away is wholly cowardly and pretending to be what you are patently not is despicable.


Fri Jul 21, 2017 7:02 am
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