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Do you support independence for Wales? 

Do you support independence for Wales?
Yes 42%  42%  [ 12 ]
No 39%  39%  [ 11 ]
Not immediately, but maybe in the more distant future 17%  17%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 28

Do you support independence for Wales? 
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Post Re: Do you support independence for Wales?
eog wrote:
Bouch wrote:
welshy34 wrote:
It always amuses me when people make arguements against independance on ECONOMIC grounds.

In case nobody has noticed .. the UK GOVERNMENT has led us in to £1.6 TRILLION debt.

So when people argue that Wales could not survive economically .. I imagine we could survive just as successfully as the UK is doing.


Our credit rating would be on the floor, you chump.

We're £30 Billion a year short of any semblance of prosperity.


Imperialism can sit back and relax when the natives undermine themselves.


The UK is just back to where we were in 2006/7, byti.

Once you realise that you can move on from the hole you dug for yourself.

Plaid don't "do" money and, it seems, neither do you.


Thu Jul 27, 2017 10:56 am
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Post Re: Do you support independence for Wales?
Bouch wrote:
welshy34 wrote:
It always amuses me when people make arguements against independance on ECONOMIC grounds.

In case nobody has noticed .. the UK GOVERNMENT has led us in to £1.6 TRILLION debt.

So when people argue that Wales could not survive economically .. I imagine we could survive just as successfully as the UK is doing.


Our credit rating would be on the floor, you chump.

We're £30 Billion a year short of any semblance of prosperity.


Having recently been given an 'official warning' from THEGRIMPER for making personal remarks and being told to attack the post rather than the poster, I assume you are now going to get one for calling me a chump ?

Is that your best argument ?

I'm a chump and we wouldn't be able to borrow MOAR money so we could get into MOAR debt?

Is that it ?


Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:07 am
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Post Re: Do you support independence for Wales?
The United Kingdom National Debt is the total quantity of money borrowed by the Government of the United Kingdom at any time through the issue of securities by the British Treasury and other government agencies.

As of Q1 (the first quarter of) 2015, UK government debt amounted to £1.56 trillion, or 81.58% of total GDP, at which time the annual cost of servicing (paying the interest) the public debt amounted to around £43 billion (which is roughly 3% of GDP or 8% of UK government tax income). Approximately a third of this debt is owned by the British government due to the Bank of England's quantitative easing programme, so approximately 1/3 of the cost of servicing the debt is paid by the government to itself, reducing the annual servicing cost to approximately £30 billion (approx 2% of GDP, approx 5% of UK government tax income).

Due to the Government's significant budget deficit, the national debt is increasing by approximately £73.5 billion per annum, or around £1.4 billion each week.[2] The Conservatives pledged in 2010 that they would eliminate the deficit by the 2015/16 financial year.[3] However, by 2014 they admitted that the structural deficit would not be eliminated until the financial year 2017/18.[4] This forecast was pushed back to 2018/19 in March 2015, and to 2019/20 in July 2015,[5] before the target of a return to surplus at any particular time was finally abandoned by the then Chancellor of the Exchequer George Osborne in July 2016.[6]


Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:24 am
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Post Re: Do you support independence for Wales?
eog wrote:
Troron wrote:
eog wrote:
I don't feel repressed personally either. But if you look at the Union Jack you will see that Wales is represented by England's Cross of Saint George.


By your argument, England is a conquered country due to the Romans, Saxons, Angles, Jutes and Normans.

You don't understand the argument.


I do and it's a weak one, you are not a conquered nation any more than England is. Using your criteria, England is more of a conquered nation than Wales. You still have remnants of your old Pre-Saxon culture. Tell me, what about the culture of England survived the Romans, Saxons, Normans etc? Our pre-conquest culture is completely gone and been entirely replaced with the culture of the invaders. Over time this became our culture. The same for Wales. If you still think of yourself as a conquered people 800 years after the conquest happened then what hope is there for an independent Wales when all you do is look backwards?

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Thu Jul 27, 2017 1:33 pm
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Post Re: Do you support independence for Wales?
perhaps it is because we still don't like the current set up.

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Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:13 pm
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Post Re: Do you support independence for Wales?
Several reasons that have been indicated to show that Scotland can't economicaly be able to maintain independence also apply to Wales.

Look up the Scottish thread, W34.

Wales is £30 Billion a year short of solvency and at least £20 Billion a year for the first 5 years of Independence short of the money needed to protect it's borders, airspace, and marine waters. After that, the Defence Budget will be a lot less, of course.

8) 8)


Thu Jul 27, 2017 2:14 pm
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Post Re: Do you support independence for Wales?
Figures release by Westminster no doubt , some people make every decision based on the small change In their pocket , .

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Thu Jul 27, 2017 5:52 pm
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Post Re: Do you support independence for Wales?
Bouch wrote:
Several reasons that have been indicated to show that Scotland can't economicaly be able to maintain independence also apply to Wales.

Look up the Scottish thread, W34.

Wales is £30 Billion a year short of solvency and at least £20 Billion a year for the first 5 years of Independence short of the money needed to protect it's borders, airspace, and marine waters. After that, the Defence Budget will be a lot less, of course.

8) 8)



Which fits in well with my original statement that the only way Wales could cover costs is to lease Milford Haven to the Russian fleet. Both bases covered there. :D

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Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:31 pm
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Post Re: Do you support independence for Wales?
Troron wrote:
eog wrote:
Troron wrote:
eog wrote:
I don't feel repressed personally either. But if you look at the Union Jack you will see that Wales is represented by England's Cross of Saint George.


By your argument, England is a conquered country due to the Romans, Saxons, Angles, Jutes and Normans.

You don't understand the argument.


I do and it's a weak one, you are not a conquered nation any more than England is. Using your criteria, England is more of a conquered nation than Wales. And you don't know much about history, even the Anglocentric version, either You still have remnants of your old Pre-Saxon culture. Tell me, what about the culture of England survived the Romans, Neither England, nor English culture existed at the time of the Romans :roll: Saxons, Normans etc? Our pre-conquest culture is completely gone and been entirely replaced with the culture of the invaders. But you're not speaking French are you Over time this became our culture. The same for Wales. If you still think It's a fact not a matter of opinion do some research before talking rot of yourself as a conquered people 800 years after the conquest happened then what hope is there for an independent Wales when all you do is look backwards?
Pretty much no hope if we look back and don't understand that we were conquered.


Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:51 pm
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Post Re: Do you support independence for Wales?
soap wrote:
Bouch wrote:
Several reasons that have been indicated to show that Scotland can't economicaly be able to maintain independence also apply to Wales.

Look up the Scottish thread, W34.

Wales is £30 Billion a year short of solvency and at least £20 Billion a year for the first 5 years of Independence short of the money needed to protect it's borders, airspace, and marine waters. After that, the Defence Budget will be a lot less, of course.

8) 8)



Which fits in well with my original statement that the only way You shouldn't assume that everyone is as unimaginative as you Wales could cover costs is to lease Milford Haven to the Russian fleet. Both bases covered there. :D


Thu Jul 27, 2017 6:58 pm
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Post Re: Do you support independence for Wales?
Bouch wrote:
eog wrote:
Bouch wrote:
welshy34 wrote:
It always amuses me when people make arguements against independance on ECONOMIC grounds.

In case nobody has noticed .. the UK GOVERNMENT has led us in to £1.6 TRILLION debt.

So when people argue that Wales could not survive economically .. I imagine we could survive just as successfully as the UK is doing.


Our credit rating would be on the floor, you chump.

We're £30 Billion a year short of any semblance of prosperity.


Imperialism can sit back and relax when the natives undermine themselves.


The UK is just back to where we were in 2006/7, byti.

Once you realise that you can move on from the hole you dug for yourself.

Plaid don't "do" money and, it seems, neither do you.


Unlike the financial geniuses in recent Tory and Labour governments :lol:


Thu Jul 27, 2017 7:04 pm
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Post Re: Do you support independence for Wales?
eog wrote:
Troron wrote:
eog wrote:
Troron wrote:
eog wrote:
I don't feel repressed personally either. But if you look at the Union Jack you will see that Wales is represented by England's Cross of Saint George.


By your argument, England is a conquered country due to the Romans, Saxons, Angles, Jutes and Normans.

You don't understand the argument.


I do and it's a weak one, you are not a conquered nation any more than England is. Using your criteria, England is more of a conquered nation than Wales. And you don't know much about history, even the Anglocentric version, either You still have remnants of your old Pre-Saxon culture. Tell me, what about the culture of England survived the Romans, Neither England, nor English culture existed at the time of the Romans :roll: Saxons, Normans etc? Our pre-conquest culture is completely gone and been entirely replaced with the culture of the invaders. But you're not speaking French are you Over time this became our culture. The same for Wales. If you still think It's a fact not a matter of opinion do some research before talking rot of yourself as a conquered people 800 years after the conquest happened then what hope is there for an independent Wales when all you do is look backwards?
Pretty much no hope if we look back and don't understand that we were conquered.


How many places in the entire world, ( including what is now called England, and what is now called Wales, but before the English ) can you think of that were not 'conquered' From Ur to Rome to America (all of it). Maybe the whole world should take the same position?

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Thu Jul 27, 2017 11:14 pm
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Post Re: Do you support independence for Wales?
eog wrote:
Neither England, nor English culture existed at the time of the Romans :roll:
It's a fact not a matter of opinion do some research before talking rot
Pretty much no hope if we look back and don't understand that we were conquered.


Well done on proving my point, using YOUR definition of a conquered people as those who have lost all their cultures to have it supplant by the invaders, the fact that NO English culture presently exists that predates the creation to England is EXACTLY my point! Our entire culture was wiped out and replaced with foreign cultures (those of the Romans, Germanic people and Normans) not a shred of pre-conquest British culture survived. The fact it did for you and didn't for us, by your definition, make England a conquered nation more than Wales.

Beginning to see the ridiculous of your original claim yet? You talk about English culture whilst completely ignoring that English culture was itself a culture brought over through conquest! The English culture that took over Wales was the same culture that first took over England.

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Fri Jul 28, 2017 12:16 am
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Post Re: Do you support independence for Wales?
eog wrote:
Bouch wrote:
eog wrote:
Bouch wrote:
welshy34 wrote:
It always amuses me when people make arguements against independance on ECONOMIC grounds.

In case nobody has noticed .. the UK GOVERNMENT has led us in to £1.6 TRILLION debt.

So when people argue that Wales could not survive economically .. I imagine we could survive just as successfully as the UK is doing.


Our credit rating would be on the floor, you chump.

We're £30 Billion a year short of any semblance of prosperity.


Imperialism can sit back and relax when the natives undermine themselves.


The UK is just back to where we were in 2006/7, byti.

Once you realise that you can move on from the hole you dug for yourself.

Plaid don't "do" money and, it seems, neither do you.


Unlike the financial geniuses in recent Tory and Labour governments :lol:


You're proud of Plaid's failure?


Fri Jul 28, 2017 7:27 am
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Post Re: Do you support independence for Wales?
soap wrote:
eog wrote:
Pretty much no hope if we look back and don't understand that we were conquered.


How many places in the entire world, ( including what is now called England, and what is now called Wales, but before the English ) can you think of that were not 'conquered' Well according to your first response - "If you believe we are a concurred people then you are on a downer for a start" you were under the impression that Wales was one of those places that wasn't conquered :roll: From Ur to Rome to America (all of it). Maybe the whole world should take the same position?

There are 195 countries in the world. Thirty four of those have been established or re-established since 1990. Some are full members of the EU and all have a seat at the UN. In Europe Scotland and Catalunya are likely to be additions in the near future.
I'm sure that in every case there were people native to those countries who predicted that the sky would fall in should their country break away.


Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:25 am
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