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Life in the Universe 
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Post Re: Life in the Universe
spinbreath wrote:
Cymru am byth wrote:
Have a look at extremophiles, a type of bacteria that can withstand high and low temperatures and high and low pressures.

I went to a lecture in university in which a researcher from cambridge had looked at the bonbardment rate of meteors and alestimated that around 1 tonne of dust/meteor from Mars hits Earth every year. I.e a meteor hit Mars, throws up a bit of dust which enters space and finally reaches Earth. The pressure and temperature and time that these extremophile bacteria would have to withstand has been recreated in labs and the bacteria survive.

Look up tardigrades. They're ugly little *fuppers*, but they can literally survive death. A space flight would be a piece of cake for them.


Interesting things!


Thu Jan 05, 2017 11:49 am
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Post Re: Life in the Universe
The reason we question life on other planets is because of our perception of size. When you realize that the earth itself is probably proportionally a speck of sand on a huge beach that is linked to an infinite number of other beaches, it is difficult to contemplate. I never thought there would be other life, but thats because we dont realize how insignificant we are as individuals.

Everywhere there are the conditions for life, life exists, the conditions are rarer than cockeral eggs, but the sheer number of opportunities makes it almost certain. Everywhere there is the possibility to evolve, evolution takes place. "Its life Jim but not as we know it", may mean we are a extremely complex or extremely backward form of life, we have nothing to measure it against ! Its like having a tiny penis or indeed a huge one in Victorian times, you wouldnt have known, because women didnt talk about such things and there was no *prn* on TV :dontknow:

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Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:10 pm
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Post Re: Life in the Universe
I also think we tend to think of everything in space as alien, which is wrong. We are part of the universe. Everything on earth came from space, so it's no great leap of the imagination to presume life did as well. Frozen in a comet, maybe?

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Thu Jan 05, 2017 12:55 pm
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Post Re: Life in the Universe
spinbreath wrote:
I also think we tend to think of everything in space as alien, which is wrong. We are part of the universe. Everything on earth came from space, so it's no great leap of the imagination to presume life did as well. Frozen in a comet, maybe?


The three schools of thought point to three origins, either the religious one, the origin of life from Earth itself or the comet based/meteor based life from elsewhere. The evidence is not conclusive but tue hydrothermal vent origin of life is compelling and much evolutionary theory stems from the origin of simple single celled organisms from these vents into what we have now.


Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:33 pm
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Post Re: Life in the Universe
I am a big fan of Clark, Otto. In particular Rama (Only the original, the later ones are written by someone more concerned with the mind state of a black american female and do not fit in). There is a lot on the site I linked concerning things like this.


There is a famous "example" I'm sure most of you know called the Drake equation. It calculates how many Earth type planets will develop life which becomes intelligent, discovers space travel and does not destroy its self etc, and even by his very short of the mark guess on planets there should be millions of space faring civilisations "out there". This was countered by the famous Fermi (the Hbomb guy) who came up with what is called "the Fermi paradox" which was "Well, where are they then"


I can not believe that with so many places (not just planets) where life could begin, develop and move on, we are the only ones.
But, Space is just so big we may never meet the others. If you accelerate a spacecraft at 1G, it would take a year to get to 90-odd % of lightspeed. Then you have to slow down the other side at 1G. This would take 7 years to get to our closest neighbouring system, and at 10% of that, which is a far distant target for us, several lifetimes.

Can you imagine doing that, finding a civilisation, and not stopping in for a chat before you went back? Why would "they" not make themselves known?

Alternative, If we could, we detected a civilisation using emissions of some sort in our local sky, it could have been hundreds, thousands or millions of years ago by the time it got here and they may be gone my the time we reply, and get the reply to it, even it the detect it and respond.

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Thu Jan 05, 2017 1:55 pm
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Post Re: Life in the Universe
Sorry to re-visit a link, but if you are at a loose end look at this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_3360275765&feature=iv&src_vid=XAJeYe-abUA&v=TqKQ94DtS54



He covers population density, but done well.

I was amazed at his cover of tall buildings. Sky scrapers are inefficient for many reasons, but this one astounded me.

Elevators. When you hit the 50 floor mark, building more floors give less and less more space due to elevators taking more area of the building.

A building with an area of 100,000 at 10 stories needs 10% of its area for elevators. This gives 90,000 sq ft use area.

at 40 floors you get 240k area, at 50 floors you only get 250k (not much extra for a huge rise in cost)
at 60 floors you get the same usable space as at 40 (240k)
Each floor added to that reduces the area below what you get at 50.


This seems counter intuitive, but the more people travailing, the more space is needed for elevators.

Have a look at 12min

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Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:39 pm
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Post Re: Life in the Universe
how many solar systems, in how many galaxies? and were alone in the universe..... nah dont think so.

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Fri Jan 06, 2017 11:23 am
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Post Re: Life in the Universe
Toasty wrote:
how many solar systems, in how many galaxies? and were alone in the universe..... nah dont think so.



Its a but 70's but the Drake equation covers that point http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/space/universe/questions_and_ideas/drake_equation

N = R ∗ ⋅ f p ⋅ n e ⋅ f ℓ ⋅ f i ⋅ f c ⋅ L


(i) the average rate of star formation, R*, in our galaxy,
(ii) the fraction of formed stars, fp, that have planets,
(iii) the average number of planets per star, ne, that can potentially support life,
(iv) the fraction of those planets, fl, that actually develop life,
(v) the fraction of planets bearing life on which intelligent, civilized life, fi, has developed,
(vi) the fraction of these civilizations that have developed communications, fc, i.e., technologies that release detectable signs into space, and
(vii) the length of time, L, over which such civilizations release detectable signals, for a combined expression of:



There are many replies to it, the most famous and my favourite is Fermi's paradox = Well where are they




here is a filled in version http://astroweb.case.edu/ssm/220f99/drake.html

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Fri Jan 06, 2017 12:37 pm
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Post Re: Life in the Universe
If human civilisation is anything to go by, any civilisation reaching the point of leaving its planet will probably wipe itself out shortly afterwards.

Any messages received from the cosmos will very likely have been sent by a long dead civilisation - unless, of course, they managed to develop some method of exceeding lightspeed before exterminating themselves?? :dontknow:


Fri Jan 06, 2017 2:05 pm
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Post Re: Life in the Universe
soap wrote:
Toasty wrote:
how many solar systems, in how many galaxies? and were alone in the universe..... nah dont think so.



Its a but 70's but the Drake equation covers that point http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/space/universe/questions_and_ideas/drake_equation

N = R ∗ ⋅ f p ⋅ n e ⋅ f ℓ ⋅ f i ⋅ f c ⋅ L


(i) the average rate of star formation, R*, in our galaxy,
(ii) the fraction of formed stars, fp, that have planets,
(iii) the average number of planets per star, ne, that can potentially support life,
(iv) the fraction of those planets, fl, that actually develop life,
(v) the fraction of planets bearing life on which intelligent, civilized life, fi, has developed,
(vi) the fraction of these civilizations that have developed communications, fc, i.e., technologies that release detectable signs into space, and
(vii) the length of time, L, over which such civilizations release detectable signals, for a combined expression of:



There are many replies to it, the most famous and my favourite is Fermi's paradox = Well where are they




here is a filled in version http://astroweb.case.edu/ssm/220f99/drake.html
thats an equation for 1 galaxy? yes? as I said, how many solar systems are in our galaxy, and how many galaxies are there in the universe? To say we are the only intelligent species in the universe I think is slightly arrogant like god only made us and no one else. We may very well be unique in our little corner of the galaxy but I dont think we're the only species to have evolved to the extent we have in the universe.

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Fri Jan 06, 2017 3:08 pm
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Post Re: Life in the Universe
Toasty wrote:
soap wrote:
Toasty wrote:
how many solar systems, in how many galaxies? and were alone in the universe..... nah dont think so.



Its a but 70's but the Drake equation covers that point http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/space/universe/questions_and_ideas/drake_equation

N = R ∗ ⋅ f p ⋅ n e ⋅ f ℓ ⋅ f i ⋅ f c ⋅ L


(i) the average rate of star formation, R*, in our galaxy,
(ii) the fraction of formed stars, fp, that have planets,
(iii) the average number of planets per star, ne, that can potentially support life,
(iv) the fraction of those planets, fl, that actually develop life,
(v) the fraction of planets bearing life on which intelligent, civilized life, fi, has developed,
(vi) the fraction of these civilizations that have developed communications, fc, i.e., technologies that release detectable signs into space, and
(vii) the length of time, L, over which such civilizations release detectable signals, for a combined expression of:



There are many replies to it, the most famous and my favourite is Fermi's paradox = Well where are they




here is a filled in version http://astroweb.case.edu/ssm/220f99/drake.html
thats an equation for 1 galaxy? yes? as I said, how many solar systems are in our galaxy, and how many galaxies are there in the universe? To say we are the only intelligent species in the universe I think is slightly arrogant like god only made us and no one else. We may very well be unique in our little corner of the galaxy but I dont think we're the only species to have evolved to the extent we have in the universe.



I am the only bloke I now who still reads The Beano ... it doesn't mean other people do, no matter how many comics you invent. As for Drake .. he shoulda stuck to bowls such is his nonsense with numbers.

If I have upset Rayleigh I apologise.


Fri Jan 06, 2017 5:55 pm
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Post Re: Life in the Universe
LLanrumneyOik wrote:
Toasty wrote:
soap wrote:
Toasty wrote:
how many solar systems, in how many galaxies? and were alone in the universe..... nah dont think so.



Its a but 70's but the Drake equation covers that point http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/space/universe/questions_and_ideas/drake_equation

N = R ∗ ⋅ f p ⋅ n e ⋅ f ℓ ⋅ f i ⋅ f c ⋅ L


(i) the average rate of star formation, R*, in our galaxy,
(ii) the fraction of formed stars, fp, that have planets,
(iii) the average number of planets per star, ne, that can potentially support life,
(iv) the fraction of those planets, fl, that actually develop life,
(v) the fraction of planets bearing life on which intelligent, civilized life, fi, has developed,
(vi) the fraction of these civilizations that have developed communications, fc, i.e., technologies that release detectable signs into space, and
(vii) the length of time, L, over which such civilizations release detectable signals, for a combined expression of:



There are many replies to it, the most famous and my favourite is Fermi's paradox = Well where are they




here is a filled in version http://astroweb.case.edu/ssm/220f99/drake.html
thats an equation for 1 galaxy? yes? as I said, how many solar systems are in our galaxy, and how many galaxies are there in the universe? To say we are the only intelligent species in the universe I think is slightly arrogant like god only made us and no one else. We may very well be unique in our little corner of the galaxy but I dont think we're the only species to have evolved to the extent we have in the universe.



I am the only bloke I now who still reads The Beano ... it doesn't mean other people do, no matter how many comics you invent. As for Drake .. he shoulda stuck to bowls such is his nonsense with numbers.

If I have upset Rayleigh I apologise.


If you can read, you are too highbrow for the rest of us

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Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:13 pm
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Post Re: Life in the Universe
Sorry Soap, I was enjoying the tangent this thread has taken and was not being snotty just thinking how folks don't recognise by how much we are governed by the rocks that orbit the Sun. In communication, RS232 say, folks talk about data rates, Broadband is just the same. Essentially communication is based on 'clocking' the bits to and fro. The Moon's influence on Earth has the same effect in 'clocking' our species. Without a clock we'd be random noise.

That qualitative assessment is for why I think Drake's Equation is a nonsense.


Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:27 pm
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Post Re: Life in the Universe
LLanrumneyOik wrote:
Sorry Soap, I was enjoying the tangent this thread has taken and was not being snotty just thinking how folks don't recognise by how much we are governed by the rocks that orbit the Sun. In communication, RS232 say, folks talk about data rates, Broadband is just the same. Essentially communication is based on 'clocking' the bits to and fro. The Moon's influence on Earth has the same effect in 'clocking' our species. Without a clock we'd be random noise.

That qualitative assessment is for why I think Drake's Equation is a nonsense.


The moon used to have an influence on me, but I'm allright Nooowwwwwwwwww :D

Ps, didnt know the Beno was still going, but they are all new characters now, all PC and stuff by the look of it
And its gone all american

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Fri Jan 06, 2017 6:31 pm
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Post Re: Life in the Universe
LLanrumneyOik wrote:
Toasty wrote:
soap wrote:
Toasty wrote:
how many solar systems, in how many galaxies? and were alone in the universe..... nah dont think so.



Its a but 70's but the Drake equation covers that point http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/space/universe/questions_and_ideas/drake_equation

N = R ∗ ⋅ f p ⋅ n e ⋅ f ℓ ⋅ f i ⋅ f c ⋅ L


(i) the average rate of star formation, R*, in our galaxy,
(ii) the fraction of formed stars, fp, that have planets,
(iii) the average number of planets per star, ne, that can potentially support life,
(iv) the fraction of those planets, fl, that actually develop life,
(v) the fraction of planets bearing life on which intelligent, civilized life, fi, has developed,
(vi) the fraction of these civilizations that have developed communications, fc, i.e., technologies that release detectable signs into space, and
(vii) the length of time, L, over which such civilizations release detectable signals, for a combined expression of:



There are many replies to it, the most famous and my favourite is Fermi's paradox = Well where are they




here is a filled in version http://astroweb.case.edu/ssm/220f99/drake.html
thats an equation for 1 galaxy? yes? as I said, how many solar systems are in our galaxy, and how many galaxies are there in the universe? To say we are the only intelligent species in the universe I think is slightly arrogant like god only made us and no one else. We may very well be unique in our little corner of the galaxy but I dont think we're the only species to have evolved to the extent we have in the universe.



I am the only bloke I now who still reads The Beano ... it doesn't mean other people do, no matter how many comics you invent. As for Drake .. he shoulda stuck to bowls such is his nonsense with numbers.

If I have upset Rayleigh I apologise.
theres billions of people who believe in god it doesnt make them right does it?
The point being we just dont know if there is anything out there and when you look at the number of coincidences in the development of humans on this planet from different areas id say that our little set of circumstances that created life have more than likely be replicated elsewhere in the universe... sorry typing on my phone.

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Fri Jan 06, 2017 7:22 pm
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