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The demise of the English club sides 
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Post The demise of the English club sides
Not watched many of the games but looking at the tables it appears that the Celtic (mainly Irish) dominance has been restored despite many saying this could not happen due to the vast amounts of money ploughing into the English and French game

Out of the 5 groups, 3 are lead by Irish sides and 2 by French with the Scarlets and Ospreys both in 2nd place.

Only Exeter look like they have a chance of qualifying from the pools which given they have got pretty much what they wanted, ie control of the competition and more money one has to ask why?

Is it they are not taking the competition seriously or are they just not very good?

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Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:18 pm
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Post Re: The demise of the English club sides
Andrew (Scum V) wrote:
Not watched many of the games but looking at the tables it appears that the Celtic (mainly Irish) dominance has been restored despite many saying this could not happen due to the vast amounts of money ploughing into the English and French game

Out of the 5 groups, 3 are lead by Irish sides and 2 by French with the Scarlets and Ospreys both in 2nd place.

Only Exeter look like they have a chance of qualifying from the pools which given they have got pretty much what they wanted, ie control of the competition and more money one has to ask why?

Is it they are not taking the competition seriously or are they just not very good?

I blame Roger Lewis

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Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:32 pm
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Post Re: The demise of the English club sides
Andrew (Scum V) wrote:
Not watched many of the games but looking at the tables it appears that the Celtic (mainly Irish) dominance has been restored despite many saying this could not happen due to the vast amounts of money ploughing into the English and French game

Out of the 5 groups, 3 are lead by Irish sides and 2 by French with the Scarlets and Ospreys both in 2nd place.

Only Exeter look like they have a chance of qualifying from the pools which given they have got pretty much what they wanted, ie control of the competition and more money one has to ask why?

Is it they are not taking the competition seriously or are they just not very good?


Andrew

At this stage ...we've been here regularly over the last few years and franglais have won out.

There's only one winner.

However, I do agree that the Irish, especially, are very strong and somewhat dominant. Leinster look outstanding however you hack it.

I have little doubt that the major french and english clubs go for the Champs Cup although after initial rounds other desert to their league focus and it is disruptive in pools positioning.

There are anomolies too, cue Gla ...doing so well in Pro 14 and poor in Champs Cup

The Challenge Cup is of little interest to major league teams especially the french teams where top league positions and avoiding relegation is prime importance.

There are external influences like injury levels that cannot be ignored and this could be applied to the upcoming 6Ns too.

It's a complex 'algorithm' but I do agree that the Pro14 are fighting their corner very well and please .....Scarlets and Osps underline it!

The Scarlets and Leinster are also outstanding in their style of qattacking play.

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Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:34 pm
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Post Re: The demise of the English club sides
Andrew (Scum V) wrote:
Not watched many of the games but looking at the tables it appears that the Celtic (mainly Irish) dominance has been restored despite many saying this could not happen due to the vast amounts of money ploughing into the English and French game

Out of the 5 groups, 3 are lead by Irish sides and 2 by French with the Scarlets and Ospreys both in 2nd place.

Only Exeter look like they have a chance of qualifying from the pools which given they have got pretty much what they wanted, ie control of the competition and more money one has to ask why?

Is it they are not taking the competition seriously or are they just not very good?

Most of the French and English clubs are a 'League of Nations'.
Just an example in Blues v Toulouse there were only three French players in the starting lineup.
Not sure about Saracens but I picked up a number of non-English qualified players in their lineup.
A lot of young English and French players are not getting the exposure they need notwithstanding the vast player bases of those two countries. :dontknow:


Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:39 pm
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Post Re: The demise of the English club sides
Connor Murray has played 5 Pro14 games this year, Ben Youngs has played double that in the English league. Promotion and relegation. This is the latest old thinking.

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Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:09 pm
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Post Re: The demise of the English club sides
BigRed wrote:
Andrew (Scum V) wrote:
Not watched many of the games but looking at the tables it appears that the Celtic (mainly Irish) dominance has been restored despite many saying this could not happen due to the vast amounts of money ploughing into the English and French game

Out of the 5 groups, 3 are lead by Irish sides and 2 by French with the Scarlets and Ospreys both in 2nd place.

Only Exeter look like they have a chance of qualifying from the pools which given they have got pretty much what they wanted, ie control of the competition and more money one has to ask why?

Is it they are not taking the competition seriously or are they just not very good?

Most of the French and English clubs are a 'League of Nations'.
Just an example in Blues v Toulouse there were only three French players in the starting lineup.
Not sure about Saracens but I picked up a number of non-English qualified players in their lineup.
A lot of young English and French players are not getting the exposure they need notwithstanding the vast player bases of those two countries. :dontknow:


Don't discredit your post with significant errors please

and ...look across the Board..e.g how many french players were in the Racing starting line up that beat Munster?

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Mon Jan 15, 2018 7:54 pm
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Post Re: The demise of the English club sides
Last year we were hearing about the demise of the English and French, then when the final was between an English and French club we heard about the demise of the Pro 12, now back to the demise of the English...

Things go in cycles, that's all there is to it.

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Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:48 pm
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Post Re: The demise of the English club sides
Tony Panties wrote:
BigRed wrote:
Andrew (Scum V) wrote:
Not watched many of the games but looking at the tables it appears that the Celtic (mainly Irish) dominance has been restored despite many saying this could not happen due to the vast amounts of money ploughing into the English and French game

Out of the 5 groups, 3 are lead by Irish sides and 2 by French with the Scarlets and Ospreys both in 2nd place.

Only Exeter look like they have a chance of qualifying from the pools which given they have got pretty much what they wanted, ie control of the competition and more money one has to ask why?

Is it they are not taking the competition seriously or are they just not very good?

Most of the French and English clubs are a 'League of Nations'.
Just an example in Blues v Toulouse there were only three French players in the starting lineup.
Not sure about Saracens but I picked up a number of non-English qualified players in their lineup.
A lot of young English and French players are not getting the exposure they need notwithstanding the vast player bases of those two countries. :dontknow:

Was I wrong in saying that there were only three French players in that starting lineup? It wasn't me that said it, it was the commentators. I assumed they were correct. :dontknow:

Don't discredit your post with significant errors please

and ...look across the Board..e.g how many french players were in the Racing starting line up that beat Munster?


Mon Jan 15, 2018 9:52 pm
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Post Re: The demise of the English club sides
BigRed wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
BigRed wrote:
Andrew (Scum V) wrote:
Not watched many of the games but looking at the tables it appears that the Celtic (mainly Irish) dominance has been restored despite many saying this could not happen due to the vast amounts of money ploughing into the English and French game

Out of the 5 groups, 3 are lead by Irish sides and 2 by French with the Scarlets and Ospreys both in 2nd place.

Only Exeter look like they have a chance of qualifying from the pools which given they have got pretty much what they wanted, ie control of the competition and more money one has to ask why?

Is it they are not taking the competition seriously or are they just not very good?

Most of the French and English clubs are a 'League of Nations'.
Just an example in Blues v Toulouse there were only three French players in the starting lineup.
Not sure about Saracens but I picked up a number of non-English qualified players in their lineup.
A lot of young English and French players are not getting the exposure they need notwithstanding the vast player bases of those two countries. :dontknow:

Was I wrong in saying that there were only three French players in that starting lineup? It wasn't me that said it, it was the commentators. I assumed they were correct. :dontknow:

Don't discredit your post with significant errors please

and ...look across the Board..e.g how many french players were in the Racing starting line up that beat Munster?


Check your source ;)

I think that you confused which match? I think it coud've been the Mop match v Exeter ? ....that would figure ;)

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Mon Jan 15, 2018 10:28 pm
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Post Re: The demise of the English club sides
Tony Panties wrote:
BigRed wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
BigRed wrote:
Andrew (Scum V) wrote:
Not watched many of the games but looking at the tables it appears that the Celtic (mainly Irish) dominance has been restored despite many saying this could not happen due to the vast amounts of money ploughing into the English and French game

Out of the 5 groups, 3 are lead by Irish sides and 2 by French with the Scarlets and Ospreys both in 2nd place.

Only Exeter look like they have a chance of qualifying from the pools which given they have got pretty much what they wanted, ie control of the competition and more money one has to ask why?

Is it they are not taking the competition seriously or are they just not very good?

Most of the French and English clubs are a 'League of Nations'.
Just an example in Blues v Toulouse there were only three French players in the starting lineup.
Not sure about Saracens but I picked up a number of non-English qualified players in their lineup.
A lot of young English and French players are not getting the exposure they need notwithstanding the vast player bases of those two countries. :dontknow:

Was I wrong in saying that there were only three French players in that starting lineup? It wasn't me that said it, it was the commentators. I assumed they were correct. :dontknow:

Don't discredit your post with significant errors please

and ...look across the Board..e.g how many french players were in the Racing starting line up that beat Munster?


Check your source ;)

I think that you confused which match? I think it coud've been the Mop match v Exeter ? ....that would figure ;)

It was one of the games I watched on this last weekend. The commdentator clearly said that there were only three Frenchmen in the starting line up. I think he mentioned 5 Georgians and a couple of South Africans & etc.
With that clue, maybe you can tell me which French team he was talking about. :D
I do not follow French rugby or for that matter England rugby. So it doesn't bother me that much.
I would be more than upset if one of our Regions started a match with only three Wales qualified players.


Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:08 pm
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Post Re: The demise of the English club sides
BigRed wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
BigRed wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
BigRed wrote:
Andrew (Scum V) wrote:
Not watched many of the games but looking at the tables it appears that the Celtic (mainly Irish) dominance has been restored despite many saying this could not happen due to the vast amounts of money ploughing into the English and French game

Out of the 5 groups, 3 are lead by Irish sides and 2 by French with the Scarlets and Ospreys both in 2nd place.

Only Exeter look like they have a chance of qualifying from the pools which given they have got pretty much what they wanted, ie control of the competition and more money one has to ask why?

Is it they are not taking the competition seriously or are they just not very good?

Most of the French and English clubs are a 'League of Nations'.
Just an example in Blues v Toulouse there were only three French players in the starting lineup.
Not sure about Saracens but I picked up a number of non-English qualified players in their lineup.
A lot of young English and French players are not getting the exposure they need notwithstanding the vast player bases of those two countries. :dontknow:

Was I wrong in saying that there were only three French players in that starting lineup? It wasn't me that said it, it was the commentators. I assumed they were correct. :dontknow:

Don't discredit your post with significant errors please

and ...look across the Board..e.g how many french players were in the Racing starting line up that beat Munster?


Check your source ;)

I think that you confused which match? I think it coud've been the Mop match v Exeter ? ....that would figure ;)

It was one of the games I watched on this last weekend. The commdentator clearly said that there were only three Frenchmen in the starting line up. I think he mentioned 5 Georgians and a couple of South Africans & etc.
With that clue, maybe you can tell me which French team he was talking about. :D
I do not follow French rugby or for that matter England rugby. So it doesn't bother me that much.
I would be more than upset if one of our Regions started a match with only three Wales qualified players.

I think it was Exeter v Montpellier and it might have been 5 South Africans not Georgians.
Perhaps you can confirm that.
Montpellier starting lineup:
15Henry Immelman, FB
14Gabriel Ngandebe, W
13Francois Steyn, C
12Jan Serfontein, C
11Nemani Nadolo, W T
10Aaron Cruden, FH 

9Gela Aprasidze, SH
1Mikheil Nariashvili, P
2Bismarck Du Plessis, H
3Johannes Jonker, P
4Nicolaas Janse van Rensburg, L
5Konstantin Mikautadze, L
6Julien Bardy, F
7Yacouba Camara, F
8Louis Picamoles,


Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:16 pm
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Post Re: The demise of the English club sides
see belw

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Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:20 pm
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Post Re: The demise of the English club sides
Big Red wrote:

It was one of the games I watched on this last weekend. The commdentator clearly said that there were only three Frenchmen in the starting line up. I think he mentioned 5 Georgians and a couple of South Africans & etc.
With that clue, maybe you can tell me which French team he was talking about. :D
I do not follow French rugby or for that matter England rugby. So it doesn't bother me that much.
I would be more than upset if one of our Regions started a match with only three Wales qualified players.


I am just telling you that your statement was incorrect and that you probably were referring to the Exeter/Mop match

I am not going further.

Wadr sort yourself out and use valid substantiated quotes and references,

The JIFF(the top14 process of trying to insist on ncreased french participation by the clubs) statistics which follow the ongoing averages v those required are available if you want to comment on the subject

As mentioned on the other end of the scale Racing are doing well in JIFF terms and their av is, I believe, 17.3 per squad but that may have changed.

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Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:20 pm
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Post Re: The demise of the English club sides
Tony Panties wrote:
Big Red wrote:

It was one of the games I watched on this last weekend. The commdentator clearly said that there were only three Frenchmen in the starting line up. I think he mentioned 5 Georgians and a couple of South Africans & etc.
With that clue, maybe you can tell me which French team he was talking about. :D
I do not follow French rugby or for that matter England rugby. So it doesn't bother me that much.
I would be more than upset if one of our Regions started a match with only three Wales qualified players.


I am just telling you that your statement was incorrect and that you probably were referring to the Exeter/Mop match

I am not going further.

Wadr sort yourself out and use valid substantiated quotes and references,

The JIFF(the top14 process of trying to insist on ncreased french participation by the clubs) statistics which follow the ongoing averages v those required are available if you want to comment on the subject

As mentioned on the other end of the scale Racing are doing well in JIFF terms and their av is, I believe, 17.3 per squad but that may have changed.



Must be the most condescending post of the year to date by a country mile. ;)

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Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:26 pm
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Post Re: The demise of the English club sides
Langland Exile wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
Big Red wrote:

It was one of the games I watched on this last weekend. The commdentator clearly said that there were only three Frenchmen in the starting line up. I think he mentioned 5 Georgians and a couple of South Africans & etc.
With that clue, maybe you can tell me which French team he was talking about. :D
I do not follow French rugby or for that matter England rugby. So it doesn't bother me that much.
I would be more than upset if one of our Regions started a match with only three Wales qualified players.


I am just telling you that your statement was incorrect and that you probably were referring to the Exeter/Mop match

I am not going further.

Wadr sort yourself out and use valid substantiated quotes and references,

The JIFF(the top14 process of trying to insist on ncreased french participation by the clubs) statistics which follow the ongoing averages v those required are available if you want to comment on the subject

As mentioned on the other end of the scale Racing are doing well in JIFF terms and their av is, I believe, 17.3 per squad but that may have changed.



Must be the most condescending post of the year to date by a country mile. ;)


Cuts short unnecessary, turgid debate that might otherwise ensue(oops already has)
Sorry but not sorry...

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Mon Jan 15, 2018 11:31 pm
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