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Rugby'd out 
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Post Rugby'd out
I’ve posted this here because it arose after last weekend’s Euro Cup matches, but ultimately the point is a general one.

I watched most matches last weekend and wotta mix!

I thoroughly enjoyed the ‘pool of death’ where Toulon, Scarlets and Bath slog it out with v competitive matches whilst some pools are beginning to create a more obvious hierarchy.

Leinster / Exeter has been a competitive series with Leinster looking worthy favourites for the Champs Cup.

Glad to see Osps make a fight of it and some other pools seems really open when considering ‘best 2nd place’ criteria.La Roc are now realising that rotating squads in order to pursue Cup and League honours is a very big ask, indeed, maybe a bridge too far.

The Clermont / Saracens match sums a lot of the spectrum for me …

A different Saracens turned up and the match was very competitive ..
However :

-The refereeing was truly abysmal and highlighted by the decisions on high tackles …one meriting a yellow and didn’t get one and the other of a more innocuous variety did! There was another scrum 5 fiasco with multiples pens without full sanction and a multiminute delay for the usual replacement rule book fracas!

-The breakdown was a mess and inconsistently treated. Increasingly players far beyond the gain line tacking/interfering with defenders and so called ‘guards’ offside. People on/off feet met with arbitrary decisions. No bias …just confusion!

-Saracens were, imo, guilty of ott play and Skelton was a prime culprit, … on one occasion his hand was all over the face of a defenceless opposition player that didn’t even warrant a replay! (it has not been cited)

-Injuries prevail (we’ve already witnessed Faletau, Read, Vuniploa and other notable injuries across the board)

Raka the Clerm Winger who has been outstanding this Season, …13 tries, a hatrick against Saracens in the first match and a superb break to make another try that some are already suggesting as try of the Season…..another superb break in the match …tackle resulted in ruptured knee ligs and out for the Season ….he had passed to Penaud who accelerated the breakthrough only to stumble in the tackle and twist his ankle to the extent that he is also out for 3 months

-The format of the game, … again it was typical of the modern format of recycle..create breakdown with inconsistent laws/rules and application and both sides line up RL style awaiting next phase.

The scrum is being nullified with questionable feed and referees directive to ignore front row stalling as long as the ball is played, indeed, now the referee dictates when the ball should be used?

^^^^^^^^^^
Despite all that a ding dong match that Parra, not good enough for Fra ‘cos his face doesn’t fit, again dominated and controlled the Clerm game and was impeccable with the boot!
I highlight this game and some details because it does describe the current ups and downs of modern Rugby

Some might say that this last weekend was an example of Cup Rugby and so be it, and that would be valid, but let’s move on and extrapolate further …
Good to see Pro14 exercising winning and competitive rugby but the league aspect has Qs …
The hybrid league set up begs Qs regarding a level playing field etc. The best Pro14 team by record ..Glasgow ..out of the Champs Cup already.

Aviva teams have been poor..don’t write ‘em off yet! …it does, however, beg the timetable intensity and demands that the Players have raised.

TheTop14 league’s Club importance and ridiculous timetable percolates it’s effect in the Challenge Cup and devalues it considerably. Teams have consistently fielded ‘development’ selections, position and importance in the Top14 being all important. Toulouse a prime example.

On the International front revenue desire drives some Unions to increased presence beyond the already liberal World Rugby Article 8. The players commitment is overstretched in the most competitive games? This also affects different problems at Club level which may be the lesser problem for some but it is of vital direct importance as is the Community grass roots level.

Injury incidence is alarming and some may now say that it is considerably a dangerous Sport with little hope of resolution and we will have to live with it. Is that acceptable!?
Also the combination of player fatigue is a headline issue and exacerbates the injury and ‘safety’ issue?

Governance is also being called into question..EPCR Club/Union issue, Aviva Player issue and potential strike, Pro14 adventurous futures, World Rugby lethargy on some contentious issue eg W wide timetable and their overall real ‘authority’, etc

The FFR issue is now approaching criminal law …

Club v Country and overall direction of Modern Rugby, maybe a footy type direction, is worrying and this includes crowd behaviour too.

Apologies, no .. no apologies for the above rant, the Euro encapsulated various concerns of mine.

When I try and transcend the detail and the immediate and view N Hemp rugby top down status it is, at best, disturbing, loosely coupled (ie not integrated), inconsistent and not fulfilling potential.

I’ve isolated N Hemp rugby as it is the best ‘composite’ example. However, S Hemp status is not without significant on and off the field problems other than NZ which currently gives an aura of consistency, control and reasonably managed futures.

The title of the post is ‘Rugby’d out’ .. it is exactly what I felt after last weekend and why I have decided to sit back and forget about the issues and just ‘Suck it and see’

…or maybe just –uck it!

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Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:43 pm
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Post Re: Rugby'd out
Thanks for your thoughtful post (er...rant). :D
You did raise some serious issues that are concerning, some of which have a consequential reflection on final scorelines.
The high tackle applied on a subjective basis is one of the major contributions to final scorelines.
I personally think that some yellow and red card offences should be nullified by penalising the player and not the team.
I think penalising 22 players because of the offence of one player is grossly unfair.
I would rather see the player being fined and have to sit out of for long periods of time depending on a review as to the seriousness of the player's action.
On review, if a player was red carded and his team was badly defeated by his action, if the review finds that the offence did not warrant a red card, it is too late for the team, they've lost. This could badly affect the outcome of a tournament. e.g. Warburton's red card in the RWC semi-final. Wales had the best team they've ever assembled to contest what would have been an amazing final. This red card penalised not only 22 players but a whole nation.


Tue Dec 19, 2017 5:18 pm
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Post Re: Rugby'd out
I always like to read Big Reds posts as they are always well thought out and full of great ideas.

I have previously commented that the card dismissal system is flawed; and can ruin a game. It can also be a disaster if a subsequent hearing over rules the decision.

Perhaps World Rugby should look into this aspect of the game, and as Big Red says penalise the player, and not the team, or for that matter the spectators as well !! My idea would be that both yellow and red carded players remain on the field of play, but in the week following the incidents have to face up to a tribunal to decide their fate. Yellow cards could be dealt with some leniency; but a second yellow in the same game would be taken into consideration. Red cards would receive stiff financial penalties such as forfeiting a large part of their salary during the suspension.

I think this system would work far better, and eliminate results that are effectively false. For really serious acts of violence I think it would be appropriate to pass a 12 month ban.


Tue Dec 19, 2017 9:24 pm
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Post Re: Rugby'd out
JOHNWALES wrote:
I always like to read Big Reds posts as they are always well thought out and full of great ideas.

I have previously commented that the card dismissal system is flawed; and can ruin a game. It can also be a disaster if a subsequent hearing over rules the decision.

Perhaps World Rugby should look into this aspect of the game, and as Big Red says penalise the player, and not the team, or for that matter the spectators as well !! My idea would be that both yellow and red carded players remain on the field of play, but in the week following the incidents have to face up to a tribunal to decide their fate. Yellow cards could be dealt with some leniency; but a second yellow in the same game would be taken into consideration. Red cards would receive stiff financial penalties such as forfeiting a large part of their salary during the suspension.

I think this system would work far better, and eliminate results that are effectively false. For really serious acts of violence, I think it would be appropriate to pass a 12-month ban.

John, I do think that the offending player should be replaced on the field of play but replaced from the bench. The yellow-carded player can return after ten minutes but the red-carded players are off for the game.
Any banning must be for the review committee to implement where the video evidence can be properly scrutinised. We've just seen an Australian player getting a try against Wales where on proper scrutinisation it was never a try. A TMO can give incorrect decisions because of the pressure to give a result sooner rather than later.


Tue Dec 19, 2017 11:19 pm
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Post Re: Rugby'd out
......

and the injury aspect continues too as Wasps have lost 3 players for the short term in the last round
(nkles and knees again)

http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/42419732

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Wed Dec 20, 2017 1:57 am
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Post Re: Rugby'd out
Tony Panties wrote:
......

and the injury aspect continues too as Wasps have lost 3 players for the short term in the last round
(nkles and knees again)

http://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/42419732

Three players in one game! Bad luck or law changes needed?
Probably a bit of both. :D


Wed Dec 20, 2017 12:42 pm
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Post Re: Rugby'd out
Yes that makes good sense Big Red.


Wed Dec 20, 2017 2:19 pm
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Post Re: Rugby'd out
If you're not Rugby'd out, try this for size

http://www.planetrugby.com/news/395058/ ... 20-12-2017 :D

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Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:20 am
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Post Re: Rugby'd out
Tony Panties wrote:
If you're not Rugby'd out, try this for size

http://www.planetrugby.com/news/395058/ ... 20-12-2017 :D

Looks like a very interesting informative article but quite lengthy. I will try to read it all later when I have some time. I have bookmarked it. :D


Thu Dec 21, 2017 10:58 am
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Post Re: Rugby'd out
The best way to avoid being Rugby'd out is to turn off the TV ;)

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Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:39 pm
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Post Re: Rugby'd out
Langland Exile wrote:
The best way to avoid being Rugby'd out is to turn off the TV ;)


I keep the TV on and switch Scumv off :D

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Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:48 pm
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Post Re: Rugby'd out
only go to one game a day

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Thu Dec 21, 2017 1:52 pm
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