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Saracens v Ospreys (Sat 21.10.2017) 
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Post Re: Saracens v Ospreys (Sat 21.10.2017)
Fids the Blindside wrote:
najbritcol wrote:
I didn't watch the match as I went out to the theatre. However, the lack of comments on here is yet further evidence of what I said on the Toulouse-Cardiff Blues thread - when a Welsh region does well (even in loss) it attracts a lot less discussion than when a Welsh region does badly.


I still read the threads and nothing has changed, its still the ref's fault, its still the WRU's fault and sack the coach. Your batshit crazy theories are plain dumb.


Several posters including myself did say in the Scarlets-Bath thread that the former didn't have a proper gameplan to adapt to the terrible weather and lost accordingly. However, this is different - double Euro champions playing at home against an Ospreys team that has hitherto been really out-of-form and on top of that lost two Wales/Lions flankers just minutes before starting the match. You and some other posters obviously have a default and instinctive hatred of the Welsh regions and nothing they do could ever please you. I bet you if Leinster or Glasgow lost at Saracens by just two points you'd be full of praise for them.

Having said all the above, it does make me think what would a merged West Wales team be like in these matches? Given how Scarlets and Ospreys have both lost narrowly to Toulon, Bath, Clermont and Saracens over the last two weeks, perhaps a combination of the best players from both teams would be (regularly) thrashing such opposition instead?


Sun Oct 22, 2017 11:50 am
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Post Re: Saracens v Ospreys (Sat 21.10.2017)
Freddierabbit wrote:
1 Penalty try awarded when Ospreys 13 was likely/possible to make a covering tackle. There is no possible way a try was certain.

Hasn't got to be certain. Thats not what the laws say.
The referee also bottled a clear penalty try on the initial yellow card offence. Swings and roundabouts, perfectly fair call.


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2 Try before half time - a massive long forward pass in the Sarries build up at the halfway line - and


Ball left his hands going backwards, drifted forwards so its fine. Far more of a try than the forward from hands and air one the TMO gave the *Terks* on Friday

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3 Obstruction on James hook for Sarries try in the second half. The offender could be seen laughing about it on close up.


This one is fair, it was an obstruction. He should have gone back to the penalty advantage (which they might easily have scored from given where it was).

Ospreys lost fair and square. Scoreline flattered them.

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Sun Oct 22, 2017 12:04 pm
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Post Re: Saracens v Ospreys (Sat 21.10.2017)
Fids the Blindside wrote:
najbritcol wrote:
I didn't watch the match as I went out to the theatre. However, the lack of comments on here is yet further evidence of what I said on the Toulouse-Cardiff Blues thread - when a Welsh region does well (even in loss) it attracts a lot less discussion than when a Welsh region does badly.


I still read the threads and nothing has changed, its still the ref's fault, its still the WRU's fault and sack the coach. Your batshit crazy theories are plain dumb.


:D

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Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:29 pm
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Post Re: Saracens v Ospreys (Sat 21.10.2017)
najbritcol wrote:
Having said all the above, it does make me think what would a merged West Wales team be like in these matches? Given how Scarlets and Ospreys have both lost narrowly to Toulon, Bath, Clermont and Saracens over the last two weeks, perhaps a combination of the best players from both teams would be (regularly) thrashing such opposition instead?


Wasn't that part of the thinking behind the regions originally? That and financially centralising all resources. Although to suggest a combined team could "regularly thrash" sides like Toulon, Clermont and Sarries is delusional at best.

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Sun Oct 22, 2017 3:59 pm
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Post Re: Saracens v Ospreys (Sat 21.10.2017)
Troron wrote:
najbritcol wrote:
Having said all the above, it does make me think what would a merged West Wales team be like in these matches? Given how Scarlets and Ospreys have both lost narrowly to Toulon, Bath, Clermont and Saracens over the last two weeks, perhaps a combination of the best players from both teams would be (regularly) thrashing such opposition instead?


Wasn't that part of the thinking behind the regions originally? That and financially centralising all resources. Although to suggest a combined team could "regularly thrash" sides like Toulon, Clermont and Sarries is delusional at best.


Some can't find reality..

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Sun Oct 22, 2017 4:19 pm
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Post Re: Saracens v Ospreys (Sat 21.10.2017)
Best Ospreys display this season.


Sun Oct 22, 2017 5:27 pm
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Post Re: Saracens v Ospreys (Sat 21.10.2017)
String wrote:
Freddierabbit wrote:
1 Penalty try awarded when Ospreys 13 was likely/possible to make a covering tackle. There is no possible way a try was certain.

Hasn't got to be certain. Thats not what the laws say.
The referee also bottled a clear penalty try on the initial yellow card offence. Swings and roundabouts, perfectly fair call.


Quote:
2 Try before half time - a massive long forward pass in the Sarries build up at the halfway line - and


Ball left his hands going backwards, drifted forwards so its fine. Far more of a try than the forward from hands and air one the TMO gave the *Terks* on Friday

Quote:
3 Obstruction on James hook for Sarries try in the second half. The offender could be seen laughing about it on close up.


This one is fair, it was an obstruction. He should have gone back to the penalty advantage (which they might easily have scored from given where it was).

Ospreys lost fair and square. Scoreline flattered them.


Not really.

The Ospreys *fupped* up a perfect try opportunity and also had a man sent off for a 50 50 penalty try. I don't say the Ospreys deserved to win, but they weren't dominated.


Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:50 pm
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Post Re: Saracens v Ospreys (Sat 21.10.2017)
Troron wrote:
najbritcol wrote:
Having said all the above, it does make me think what would a merged West Wales team be like in these matches? Given how Scarlets and Ospreys have both lost narrowly to Toulon, Bath, Clermont and Saracens over the last two weeks, perhaps a combination of the best players from both teams would be (regularly) thrashing such opposition instead?


Wasn't that part of the thinking behind the regions originally? That and financially centralising all resources. Although to suggest a combined team could "regularly thrash" sides like Toulon, Clermont and Sarries is delusional at best.


OK, regularly thrashing such teams is OTT, but at least a combined West Wales team would beat them more often than they do now and have more of a chance of silverware than as separate teams.


Sun Oct 22, 2017 6:54 pm
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Post Re: Saracens v Ospreys (Sat 21.10.2017)
It's a sobering thought that both Scarlets and Ospreys were sunk by brilliant displays by two Wales boys, Priestland and Liam Williams.


Sun Oct 22, 2017 7:07 pm
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Post Re: Saracens v Ospreys (Sat 21.10.2017)
BigRed wrote:
It's a sobering thought that both Scarlets and Ospreys were sunk by brilliant displays by two Wales boys, Priestland and Liam Williams.

I know. :dontknow:

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Sun Oct 22, 2017 8:43 pm
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Post Re: Saracens v Ospreys (Sat 21.10.2017)
ICEverything wrote:
BigRed wrote:
It's a sobering thought that both Scarlets and Ospreys were sunk by brilliant displays by two Wales boys, Priestland and Liam Williams.

I know. :dontknow:


Scarlets' fault for not finding him a prettier local girl.. :D

That would take a bit of doing , mind.. ;)

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Post Re: Saracens v Ospreys (Sat 21.10.2017)
najbritcol wrote:
Troron wrote:
najbritcol wrote:
Having said all the above, it does make me think what would a merged West Wales team be like in these matches? Given how Scarlets and Ospreys have both lost narrowly to Toulon, Bath, Clermont and Saracens over the last two weeks, perhaps a combination of the best players from both teams would be (regularly) thrashing such opposition instead?


Wasn't that part of the thinking behind the regions originally? That and financially centralising all resources. Although to suggest a combined team could "regularly thrash" sides like Toulon, Clermont and Sarries is delusional at best.


OK, regularly thrashing such teams is OTT, but at least a combined West Wales team would beat them more often than they do now and have more of a chance of silverware than as separate teams.


Except it doesn't really work that way. You've looked at 2 close losses and concluded that all you need to do is combine the teams for an average performance to be above the others. The combined team would still have depth issues, still have coaching issues and fundamentally I doubt the talent of the combined team would be better than any of the others you mentioned. Put it this way, do you think the Welsh national team could thrash Sarries?

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Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:01 am
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Post Re: Saracens v Ospreys (Sat 21.10.2017)
Troron wrote:
najbritcol wrote:
Troron wrote:
najbritcol wrote:
Having said all the above, it does make me think what would a merged West Wales team be like in these matches? Given how Scarlets and Ospreys have both lost narrowly to Toulon, Bath, Clermont and Saracens over the last two weeks, perhaps a combination of the best players from both teams would be (regularly) thrashing such opposition instead?


Wasn't that part of the thinking behind the regions originally? That and financially centralising all resources. Although to suggest a combined team could "regularly thrash" sides like Toulon, Clermont and Sarries is delusional at best.


OK, regularly thrashing such teams is OTT, but at least a combined West Wales team would beat them more often than they do now and have more of a chance of silverware than as separate teams.


Except it doesn't really work that way. You've looked at 2 close losses and concluded that all you need to do is combine the teams for an average performance to be above the others. The combined team would still have depth issues, still have coaching issues and fundamentally I doubt the talent of the combined team would be better than any of the others you mentioned. Put it this way, do you think the Welsh national team could thrash Sarries?


Not thrash them but probably beat them comfortably enough. Do you really think that Welsh rugby, even with all the success at international level since 2005, is so weak that a hybrid of its two best pro teams would not genuinely compete for European silverware - leaving aside the fact that they have won the Pro 14 six times between them?


Mon Oct 23, 2017 12:10 am
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Post Re: Saracens v Ospreys (Sat 21.10.2017)
Naj:

Please explain, (theory #345), why the Ospreys could win the then Celtic League, and be the dominant contributor of the Wales' Grand Slam/Triple Crown teams, have excellent overseas players like Marshall and the late Jerry Collins, but then never get beyond a quarter final in the then Heineken Cup, and lose to Munster by 40+, after Wales beat Ireland 2/3 weeks before, and the Ospreys would later beat the Irish teams in the Celtic league play offs?

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Mon Oct 23, 2017 4:32 am
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Post Re: Saracens v Ospreys (Sat 21.10.2017)
najbritcol wrote:
Not thrash them but probably beat them comfortably enough. Do you really think that Welsh rugby, even with all the success at international level since 2005, is so weak that a hybrid of its two best pro teams would not genuinely compete for European silverware - leaving aside the fact that they have won the Pro 14 six times between them?


The key point is since 2005, the successes of the Welsh team are in the past and do not look like they are going to come around again until some fundamental changes are made. I think a hybrid of it's 2 best teams would be more competitive than either of them individually but I still think it would be below the big English and French clubs. They would win some but I'm pretty sure would continue to lose more than they win.

They have won the Pro 12/14 6 times and yet neither has even reached the semis in Europe... The main point is that the performance will not necessarily jump drastically by simply combining 2 teams. At best a combined team will overcome single glaring weaknesses in one of the teams but top performance is more linked to coaching.

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