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Toulon v Scarlets 
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Post Re: Toulon v Scarlets
Keith L wrote:
Troron wrote:
Pro 12 teams top 2 pools, English teams top 2, French teams top 1. Seems like a pretty reasonable distribution.


Yes yes yes, but you are supposed to be topping them all, thats the way the comp was set up to be mun :thefinger:


And just how is it setup to allow that?

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Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:10 pm
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Post Re: Toulon v Scarlets
tom21 wrote:
wasp wrote:
CymraegJanner wrote:
Nice victory, and sadly due to our expectations, one that will be remembered and talked about for years to come.

Bit like the Wrexham always remembering how they beat Arsenal in the FA Cup, and to be honest that's what it looked like for a lot of it.

Toulon had all the possession and the opportunities and failed to come up with the goods, they don't look like a very together squad to me, and I don't think they believe in the coaching.

Still here's hoping that the Scarlets can put one foot in front of the other and build on this, but sadly I think it's an exceptional night rather than the road to being the expected norm

I don't know how often you watch, but the Scarlets are clearly developing something quite special at the minute. Defence/ Attack/ Set piece and breakdowns have all clearly been improved. That's 8 consecutive home wins, 11 from 16 overall this season and 10 from 12 since October 1st.

We're nowhere near being able to get out of this group with 2 recent champions in it, but we certainly proved our right to be in the premier competition this year and we should be confident of a top 4 spot and RCC rugby again next season.


Agree with a lot of that. If they had the additional funding that some of the English and French sides have, they could add some real firepower up front (number eight, lock, some better replacement props) and I think would be in a position to take that next step.


Yes, it is obvious that Toulon were targeting their scrum, which didn't quite work in the first half but, once Toulon had finished making their extraordinarily large number of substitutions, almost worked for them in the second half, especially when Rob Evans and Samson Lee were taken off.


Mon Dec 19, 2016 8:10 pm
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Post Re: Toulon v Scarlets
wasp wrote:
CymraegJanner wrote:
Nice victory, and sadly due to our expectations, one that will be remembered and talked about for years to come.

Bit like the Wrexham always remembering how they beat Arsenal in the FA Cup, and to be honest that's what it looked like for a lot of it.

Toulon had all the possession and the opportunities and failed to come up with the goods, they don't look like a very together squad to me, and I don't think they believe in the coaching.

Still here's hoping that the Scarlets can put one foot in front of the other and build on this, but sadly I think it's an exceptional night rather than the road to being the expected norm

I don't know how often you watch, but the Scarlets are clearly developing something quite special at the minute. Defence/ Attack/ Set piece and breakdowns have all clearly been improved. That's 8 consecutive home wins, 11 from 16 overall this season and 10 from 12 since October 1st.

We're nowhere near being able to get out of this group with 2 recent champions in it, but we certainly proved our right to be in the premier competition this year and we should be confident of a top 4 spot and RCC rugby again next season.

I think the difference with this win and past wins in Europe such as the Toulouse victory is that the Scarlets were about 20 points behind against Toulouse at one stage whereas in this game, they could easily have been 20 points ahead had the final passes gone to hand.

After the Toulouse game, Scarlets went on to lose to the Os at Christmas by about 50 points, with key players like Stevo pulling out due to injury concerns etc. This time, they have players like Foxy, Cubby and McNicholl chomping at the bit to get into the 22 for Boxing day.

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Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:44 am
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Post Re: Toulon v Scarlets
Troron wrote:
Pro 12 teams top 2 pools, English teams top 2, French teams top 1. Seems like a pretty reasonable distribution.

Indeed, but the point is that many on here say the Pro12 is crap and the regions should be disbanded in favour of well err other regions. In reality, the regions are getting stronger and the gap between the Pro12 teams and the rest doesn't seem to be as great - not in Europe at least.

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Tue Dec 20, 2016 9:52 am
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Post Re: Toulon v Scarlets
ICEverything wrote:
Troron wrote:
Pro 12 teams top 2 pools, English teams top 2, French teams top 1. Seems like a pretty reasonable distribution.

Indeed, but the point is that many on here say the Pro12 is crap and the regions should be disbanded in favour of well err other regions. In reality, the regions are getting stronger and the gap between the Pro12 teams and the rest doesn't seem to be as great - not in Europe at least.


Really ??? Newport and Cardiff stronger :D

Ospreys beating third rate teams and Llanelli having their annual one off

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Post Re: Toulon v Scarlets
Fids the Blindside wrote:
ICEverything wrote:
Troron wrote:
Pro 12 teams top 2 pools, English teams top 2, French teams top 1. Seems like a pretty reasonable distribution.

Indeed, but the point is that many on here say the Pro12 is crap and the regions should be disbanded in favour of well err other regions. In reality, the regions are getting stronger and the gap between the Pro12 teams and the rest doesn't seem to be as great - not in Europe at least.


Really ??? Newport and Cardiff stronger :D

Ospreys beating third rate teams and Llanelli having their annual one off

Yes.

Ospreys would whoop some of the teams in the Champions cup, Scarlets are doing it. Both are in top 4 of Pro12. Two Welsh regions in top 4 of Pro12 hasn't happened ever as far as i can remember.

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Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:03 am
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Post Re: Toulon v Scarlets
ICEverything wrote:
Fids the Blindside wrote:
ICEverything wrote:
Troron wrote:
Pro 12 teams top 2 pools, English teams top 2, French teams top 1. Seems like a pretty reasonable distribution.

Indeed, but the point is that many on here say the Pro12 is crap and the regions should be disbanded in favour of well err other regions. In reality, the regions are getting stronger and the gap between the Pro12 teams and the rest doesn't seem to be as great - not in Europe at least.


Really ??? Newport and Cardiff stronger :D

Ospreys beating third rate teams and Llanelli having their annual one off

Yes.

Ospreys would whoop some of the teams in the Champions cup, Scarlets are doing it. Both are in top 4 of Pro12. Two Welsh regions in top 4 of Pro12 hasn't happened ever as far as i can remember.


I'm afraid I don't share your enthusiasm.

Maybe the Ospreys could beat European teams in the Champions cup but the fact remains, they aren't playing them.

The regions need to keep on winning for a while yet before I read anything into it. I would love you to be right though.

As I mentioned earlier, we have gone from a fairly shit AI where complete overhaul of the Welsh system being called for, to a few wins for our regions and threads like this one stating that all is fine again.

Each time we reach this stage (i.e. winning a few matches) we suddenly propel ourselves to best in the world, cherry pick at a few staristics and brush all the shit under the carpet. This allows nothing to be done.

You can't statistically analyse the Pro12 or indeed Europe at this stage of the season. We need a cold look at performances over a few years, look for patterns and trends not one of victories or hammerings against shit opposition.

I repeat, the Pro12 is improving but until we are filling matches (a good sign that there is support) the system isn't working.

I reiterate, I hope you are right though and think that the Ospreys and Scarlets are improving.


Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:24 am
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Post Re: Toulon v Scarlets
ICEverything wrote:
Fids the Blindside wrote:
ICEverything wrote:
Troron wrote:
Pro 12 teams top 2 pools, English teams top 2, French teams top 1. Seems like a pretty reasonable distribution.

Indeed, but the point is that many on here say the Pro12 is crap and the regions should be disbanded in favour of well err other regions. In reality, the regions are getting stronger and the gap between the Pro12 teams and the rest doesn't seem to be as great - not in Europe at least.


Really ??? Newport and Cardiff stronger :D

Ospreys beating third rate teams and Llanelli having their annual one off

Yes.

Ospreys would whoop some of the teams in the Champions cup, Scarlets are doing it. Both are in top 4 of Pro12. Two Welsh regions in top 4 of Pro12 hasn't happened ever as far as i can remember.


oh my, that as made my Christmas :D

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Post Re: Toulon v Scarlets
ICEverything wrote:
Fids the Blindside wrote:
ICEverything wrote:
Troron wrote:
Pro 12 teams top 2 pools, English teams top 2, French teams top 1. Seems like a pretty reasonable distribution.

Indeed, but the point is that many on here say the Pro12 is crap and the regions should be disbanded in favour of well err other regions. In reality, the regions are getting stronger and the gap between the Pro12 teams and the rest doesn't seem to be as great - not in Europe at least.


Really ??? Newport and Cardiff stronger :D

Ospreys beating third rate teams and Llanelli having their annual one off

Yes.

Ospreys would whoop some of the teams in the Champions cup, Scarlets are doing it. Both are in top 4 of Pro12. Two Welsh regions in top 4 of Pro12 hasn't happened ever as far as i can remember.


at the start of the season I believe welsh teams were 1st & 2nd for the first 3 rounds.


Tue Dec 20, 2016 2:57 pm
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Post Re: Toulon v Scarlets
mr messy wrote:
ICEverything wrote:
Fids the Blindside wrote:
ICEverything wrote:
Troron wrote:
Pro 12 teams top 2 pools, English teams top 2, French teams top 1. Seems like a pretty reasonable distribution.

Indeed, but the point is that many on here say the Pro12 is crap and the regions should be disbanded in favour of well err other regions. In reality, the regions are getting stronger and the gap between the Pro12 teams and the rest doesn't seem to be as great - not in Europe at least.


Really ??? Newport and Cardiff stronger :D

Ospreys beating third rate teams and Llanelli having their annual one off

Yes.

Ospreys would whoop some of the teams in the Champions cup, Scarlets are doing it. Both are in top 4 of Pro12. Two Welsh regions in top 4 of Pro12 hasn't happened ever as far as i can remember.


at the start of the season I believe welsh teams were 1st & 2nd for the first 3 rounds.


True, although since then the Blues have gone awol and the Ospreys lost three matches. All the same, it is good news at this stage of the Pro 12. Ospreys and Scarlets have each won 7 out of 10, while Munster and Leinster have each won 8 out of 10. Very close indeed.


Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:01 pm
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Post Re: Toulon v Scarlets
mr messy wrote:
ICEverything wrote:
Fids the Blindside wrote:
ICEverything wrote:
Troron wrote:
Pro 12 teams top 2 pools, English teams top 2, French teams top 1. Seems like a pretty reasonable distribution.

Indeed, but the point is that many on here say the Pro12 is crap and the regions should be disbanded in favour of well err other regions. In reality, the regions are getting stronger and the gap between the Pro12 teams and the rest doesn't seem to be as great - not in Europe at least.


Really ??? Newport and Cardiff stronger :D

Ospreys beating third rate teams and Llanelli having their annual one off

Yes.

Ospreys would whoop some of the teams in the Champions cup, Scarlets are doing it. Both are in top 4 of Pro12. Two Welsh regions in top 4 of Pro12 hasn't happened ever as far as i can remember.


at the start of the season I believe welsh teams were 1st & 2nd for the first 3 rounds.


Granted but I remember when Sheffield Wednesday topped the league for the first few games. The whole season is the test, when everyone has played everyone. Don't get me wrong, I want to see our regions at the top but let's see it through to the end of the season before we get too excited.


Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:03 pm
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Post Re: Toulon v Scarlets
Love this thread. Makes me all warm inside.


Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:45 pm
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Post Re: Toulon v Scarlets
Pro 12 teams aren't bad, I think the difference is depth. Pro 12 first teams have plenty of internationals who have played together as internationals as well as for their clubs, they have the strength to take on most other clubs. I think where Pro 12 begins to struggle is when it comes to injuries and losing international players.

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Post Re: Toulon v Scarlets
Troron wrote:
Pro 12 teams aren't bad, I think the difference is depth. Pro 12 first teams have plenty of internationals who have played together as internationals as well as for their clubs, they have the strength to take on most other clubs. I think where Pro 12 begins to struggle is when it comes to injuries and losing international players.



Pro 12 clubs haven't struggled in Europe though. The league has performed pretty much as expected, if it was the equal of the two other leagues. Its just that Welsh teams in the Pro 12 have not and neither have Scottish teams. So the league doesn't seem to be the key issue. The origin of the club is. Well thats one way of looking at it :)

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Wed Dec 21, 2016 4:26 pm
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Post Re: Toulon v Scarlets
Blindside wrote:
Troron wrote:
Pro 12 teams aren't bad, I think the difference is depth. Pro 12 first teams have plenty of internationals who have played together as internationals as well as for their clubs, they have the strength to take on most other clubs. I think where Pro 12 begins to struggle is when it comes to injuries and losing international players.



Pro 12 clubs haven't struggled in Europe though. The league has performed pretty much as expected, if it was the equal of the two other leagues. Its just that Welsh teams in the Pro 12 have not and neither have Scottish teams. So the league doesn't seem to be the key issue. The origin of the club is. Well thats one way of looking at it :)


Spot On.
And if you overlay your point (in bold) with the fact that the Welsh team has probably outperformed Ireland over the last 10 - 12 years or so, then it is a conundrum. Which as I see it can only be resolved by concluding that the Welsh regions have been complete and utter shite for the last decade or so. :D
Though I do admire Icey's optimism and I hope he's right that they are gradually improving; because they're all we've got and I would love to see them one day striving to reach the heights that the Irish regions have achieved.

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Wed Dec 21, 2016 5:26 pm
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