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Huge change to U16's rugby 
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Post Re: Huge change to U16's rugby
Chris ScumV wrote:
DragonBalls wrote:
MajorMellons wrote:
DragonBalls wrote:
Should it be a block on playing the elite kids, or a reduction in the games in a season per se ?

Out of touch with the youth set up so genuinely don't know whether the question has merit, or not?


All the kids want to do is play.

I get hacked off when coaches refuse to travel or call off games because they either have a week side and may lose, or because they don't have a full compliment.
If the game starts 12 v 12, then so be it. At least 24 lads will get a game as opposed to none.
One team could loan the opposition players for the duration of the game, again, lads are getting a game.

If lads don't play regularly, they can fade away from rugby very easily. The excuse of "game off as we are missing some of our better boys" is a very poor excuse.


I broadly agree with your sentiment regarding kids just wanting to play, but how is 12 -v- 12 going to develop their game? It will create a false environment in key positions, which can contribute to creating bad habits in a full 15-a-side game?


nah we play 7's and 10's, and touch. it develops various aspects of their game :)


7s yes, but 12s? A poor hybrid?

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Tue Apr 09, 2013 8:56 pm
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Post Re: Huge change to U16's rugby
DragonBalls wrote:
Chris ScumV wrote:
DragonBalls wrote:
MajorMellons wrote:
DragonBalls wrote:
Should it be a block on playing the elite kids, or a reduction in the games in a season per se ?

Out of touch with the youth set up so genuinely don't know whether the question has merit, or not?


All the kids want to do is play.

I get hacked off when coaches refuse to travel or call off games because they either have a week side and may lose, or because they don't have a full compliment.
If the game starts 12 v 12, then so be it. At least 24 lads will get a game as opposed to none.
One team could loan the opposition players for the duration of the game, again, lads are getting a game.

If lads don't play regularly, they can fade away from rugby very easily. The excuse of "game off as we are missing some of our better boys" is a very poor excuse.


I broadly agree with your sentiment regarding kids just wanting to play, but how is 12 -v- 12 going to develop their game? It will create a false environment in key positions, which can contribute to creating bad habits in a full 15-a-side game?


nah we play 7's and 10's, and touch. it develops various aspects of their game :)


7s yes, but 12s? A poor hybrid?



but the other option is NO rugby, are you really saying that a team is better off not playing because it is short one week?

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Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:07 pm
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Post Re: Huge change to U16's rugby
Chris ScumV wrote:
but the other option is NO rugby, are you really saying that a team is better off not playing because it is short one week?


No I'm not. But my question was whether a reduction in games per season might mitigate the propensity for teams to be short of players.

I'm all for kids playing regularly. I suppose what we are discussing is what regular rugby is meaningful in development terms.

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Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:10 pm
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Post Re: Huge change to U16's rugby
As Chris said, any rugby is better than none.

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Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:57 pm
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Post Re: Huge change to U16's rugby
DragonBalls wrote:
Chris ScumV wrote:
but the other option is NO rugby, are you really saying that a team is better off not playing because it is short one week?


No I'm not. But my question was whether a reduction in games per season might mitigate the propensity for teams to be short of players.

I'm all for kids playing regularly. I suppose what we are discussing is what regular rugby is meaningful in development terms.


How would playing less games impact on the number of players in a team? The introduction of the season block is meant to do just this. It redices the number of games played by elite players.

Maybe I should explain, that it is the ELITE players that are playing more matches, not ALL players. so the only way to stop these elite players from playing more games is either to stop them playing club rugby, schools rugby or district/academy rugby, depending what level they are at. How else will you reduce the number of games THESE players play?

This si the issue that is being addressed here, the reduction in number of games elite players are playing in order to prevent burn out.

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Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:36 pm
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Post Re: Huge change to U16's rugby
Oops, Double post! :drunken:

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Tue Apr 09, 2013 10:37 pm
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Post Re: Huge change to U16's rugby
What does the implimentation of this new system hope to achieve?
Do you think it will work?


Wed Apr 10, 2013 1:08 pm
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Post Re: Huge change to U16's rugby
Cymru am byth wrote:
What does the implimentation of this new system hope to achieve?
Do you think it will work?


have to be carefull how I reply to this as it is an open forum :D

All jokes aside. It is meant to improve the season and block it, to prevent player burn out of the elite players. They will play club rugby at the start of the season, then step up to elite rugby, then drop back to club rugby at the end of the season.

Without doubt it will work with regard achieving the aim of cutting down the numbers of games played.

My concern is for 'community players' as in those not in the elite development system. THESE are the lifeblood of the game in Wales, because without them there is not game, without them there is no youth teams to feed the seniors.

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Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:18 pm
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Post Re: Huge change to U16's rugby
I wouldn't support this ban and personally I don't think you should have an elite level at u16. At that age it should be about skills, team ethic and participation. I would like to see the academy system scrapped in favour of a condition in the A license to provide a certain standard of coaching which is regularly assessed by WRU


Wed Apr 10, 2013 10:19 pm
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Post Re: Huge change to U16's rugby
ponty1978 wrote:
I wouldn't support this ban and personally I don't think you should have an elite level at u16. At that age it should be about skills, team ethic and participation. I would like to see the academy system scrapped in favour of a condition in the A license to provide a certain standard of coaching which is regularly assessed by WRU


And you really think that the welsh prem is capable of doing what the Academies do? Are you aware of just how far reaching what the academies do is? Do you believe that a prem club coach can get anywhere near what the academies do?

It isn't a ban, it is a block, in the same way that a restructured progressive season would work in senior rugby. oi.e. starts off with lowest level, then progresses. The only difference here is that instead of the elite rugby being played throughout the season it is in blocks and the players are not allowed to play club rugby.

Keep in mind there is currently a system that does this, but it is being ignored. Every season we allocate club weekends and school weekends, no-one takes any notice and the kinds are getting played to death.

One last thing, you do realise that the term 'elite' means anyone that plays above local club level do you? i.e any child that plays district rugby, schools rugby (other than their own school) so your system is to scrap all representative rugby and replace it with a coach from the nearest prem club.

MAGIC :D

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Wed Apr 10, 2013 11:39 pm
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Post Re: Huge change to U16's rugby
Now, now.

Opinion is still opinion, uninformed or not.

Keeping the Forum active ......

;)


Thu Apr 11, 2013 7:31 am
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Post Re: Huge change to U16's rugby
Bouch wrote:
Now, now.

Opinion is still opinion, uninformed or not.

Keeping the Forum active ......

;)


I agree and the more opinions we get of these subjects the better.

For the record, I voted against this option, but it appears to be going through, so I have to work with it :thumbright:

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Thu Apr 11, 2013 9:34 am
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Post Re: Huge change to U16's rugby
From my perspective I think the following:

1. It adds a structure to the season.
2. It removes the need for the kids to decide if they should play for their school,club of district (they cant/ shouldnt play for all 3 each week!
3. It gives an opportunity for the non 'elite' players to get game time and not end up on the end of a beating. It could actualy retain these players that may leave because they dont get picked or are not as physically advanced.
4. The elite players are exposed to peer groups where they have to work harder to develop as they are no longer the big fish in the little pond. They can also take back their experience to their clubs.

As with all these things it ks how it is sold to the clubs etc. It appears to bea much more organised and controlled situation than you will find in England.

Many 'elite' players leave their clubs totaly to concentrate on County and divisional at this age. When they do not attain the level they perceived they would they leave the game!

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Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:03 am
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Post Re: Huge change to U16's rugby
SJ wrote:
From my perspective I think the following:

1. It adds a structure to the season.
2. It removes the need for the kids to decide if they should play for their school,club of district (they cant/ shouldnt play for all 3 each week!
3. It gives an opportunity for the non 'elite' players to get game time and not end up on the end of a beating. It could actualy retain these players that may leave because they dont get picked or are not as physically advanced.
4. The elite players are exposed to peer groups where they have to work harder to develop as they are no longer the big fish in the little pond. They can also take back their experience to their clubs.

As with all these things it ks how it is sold to the clubs etc. It appears to bea much more organised and controlled situation than you will find in England.

Many 'elite' players leave their clubs totaly to concentrate on County and divisional at this age. When they do not attain the level they perceived they would they leave the game!


That pretty much sums up my take on this.

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Thu Apr 11, 2013 11:51 am
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Post Re: Huge change to U16's rugby
Seconded, I was undecided and didn't like the idea until we sat down and worked through it. Now I think it is good.

Add to SJ's list that this is a great opportunity for some coach education then it is an everyone wins situation :)

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Thu Apr 11, 2013 1:58 pm
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