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'Clear out' clarification pls ! 
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Post 'Clear out' clarification pls !
Just watched ABs / France and some of the clear outs ..both sides ... were difficult to understand eg player runs toward ruck makes no attempt to bind or go for the ball and just smashes (right word !) an opponent already legit in the ruck out of the way.

To me this is both dangerous play and illegal in terms of ruck rules, bound on etc ...

Pls clarify and pass opinion

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Sat Jun 08, 2013 10:45 am
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Post Re: 'Clear out' clarification pls !
tel this has been allowed by refs for a few years now and I for one will not let it happen. The law is clear the player must bind on his own player, he can't just drive in with the shoulder (yet they do it all the time and nothing is done about it).

Snid died as a result of such a charge and STILL nothing was done about enforcing the laws of the game.

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Sat Jun 08, 2013 11:45 am
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Post Re: 'Clear out' clarification pls !
Chris ScumV wrote:
tel this has been allowed by refs for a few years now and I for one will not let it happen. The law is clear the player must bind on his own player, he can't just drive in with the shoulder (yet they do it all the time and nothing is done about it).

Snid died as a result of such a charge and STILL nothing was done about enforcing the laws of the game.


especially when the defensive player is at the back of the ruck and on side as far as his side is concerned.

Agree it's been allowed for some time but now it seems to have become more prevalent and of a wider scope ie even those that are not 'officially' part of the ruck.

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Sat Jun 08, 2013 12:44 pm
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Post Re: 'Clear out' clarification pls !
Machiavelli wrote:
Chris ScumV wrote:
tel this has been allowed by refs for a few years now and I for one will not let it happen. The law is clear the player must bind on his own player, he can't just drive in with the shoulder (yet they do it all the time and nothing is done about it).

Snid died as a result of such a charge and STILL nothing was done about enforcing the laws of the game.


especially when the defensive player is at the back of the ruck and on side as far as his side is concerned.

Agree it's been allowed for some time but now it seems to have become more prevalent and of a wider scope ie even those that are not 'officially' part of the ruck.


If you are within 1mtr of the ruck you can be cleaned out. madness isn't it :(

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Sun Jun 09, 2013 11:43 pm
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Post Re: 'Clear out' clarification pls !
Technically Chris, If you dive into a ruck & contact your own player, doesn't that put him offside. :dontknow:


Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:39 am
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Post Re: 'Clear out' clarification pls !
Old Fart wrote:
Technically Chris, If you dive into a ruck & contact your own player, doesn't that put him offside. :dontknow:

You're not allowed to dive !! .. off the feet is another much executed sin ..

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Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:52 am
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Post Re: 'Clear out' clarification pls !
Old Fart wrote:
Technically Chris, If you dive into a ruck & contact your own player, doesn't that put him offside. :dontknow:


No because in a ruck there is no ball carrier, and prodided you come into the ruck through the gate you are fine. However 'diving' into a ruck is 9as Tel says) another thing that appears to be allowed these days (by some).

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Mon Jun 10, 2013 12:55 pm
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Post Re: 'Clear out' clarification pls !
The powers that be clamp down on it now and again, Bakkies Botha comes to mind, but is mostly ignored.

Most of the players think its legal, Adam Jones even defended Bakkies

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Mon Jun 10, 2013 7:43 pm
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Post Re: 'Clear out' clarification pls !
This was Botha incident and isn't really what I was getting at ... at least it's shoulder to shoulder ...
I've been more concerned with the blatant taking people out that aren't concerned directly with the ruck and the sole purpose of the offender is to take a player out of the game and any chance to participate in said ruck. I've also seen players cross the gain line so to do ...

It's mayhem and the ref and others are so preoccupied with the breakdown the peripheral offences are ignored and are dangerous ..?

Image

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Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:11 pm
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Post Re: 'Clear out' clarification pls !
Machiavelli wrote:
This was Botha incident and isn't really what I was getting at ... at least it's shoulder to shoulder ...
I've been more concerned with the blatant taking people out that aren't concerned directly with the ruck and the sole purpose of the offender is to take a player out of the game and any chance to participate in said ruck. I've also seen players cross the gain line so to do ...

It's mayhem and the ref and others are so preoccupied with the breakdown the peripheral offences are ignored and are dangerous ..?

Image




Interesting vid there..... Botha clean out was in my opinion excellent....(im not sure if according to specific of the laws he could have been penalised because his wait was not mostly supported by his legs, but his arms) There could have been a penalty for the Welsh 5 for going off his feet and a penalty against the Welsh 2 for coming in the side. So in a clip of a breakdown lasting a few seconds, we find almost a potential penalty a second, when in fact there was none given :)

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Mon Jun 10, 2013 8:28 pm
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Post Re: 'Clear out' clarification pls !
Blindside wrote:
Machiavelli wrote:
This was Botha incident and isn't really what I was getting at ... at least it's shoulder to shoulder ...
I've been more concerned with the blatant taking people out that aren't concerned directly with the ruck and the sole purpose of the offender is to take a player out of the game and any chance to participate in said ruck. I've also seen players cross the gain line so to do ...

It's mayhem and the ref and others are so preoccupied with the breakdown the peripheral offences are ignored and are dangerous ..?

Image




Interesting vid there..... Botha clean out was in my opinion excellent....(im not sure if according to specific of the laws he could have been penalised because his wait was not mostly supported by his legs, but his arms) There could have been a penalty for the Welsh 5 for going off his feet and a penalty against the Welsh 2 for coming in the side. So in a clip of a breakdown lasting a few seconds, we find almost a potential penalty a second, when in fact there was none given :)


I posted the vid for that reason and he came thro' the gate ... I'm complaining about the clear out of those not yet 'in' the ruck and also having done so ..lazy running to get back onside !! :roll: :scratch:

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Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:58 am
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Post Re: 'Clear out' clarification pls !
Blindside wrote:
Machiavelli wrote:
This was Botha incident and isn't really what I was getting at ... at least it's shoulder to shoulder ...
I've been more concerned with the blatant taking people out that aren't concerned directly with the ruck and the sole purpose of the offender is to take a player out of the game and any chance to participate in said ruck. I've also seen players cross the gain line so to do ...

It's mayhem and the ref and others are so preoccupied with the breakdown the peripheral offences are ignored and are dangerous ..?

Image




Interesting vid there..... Botha clean out was in my opinion excellent....(im not sure if according to specific of the laws he could have been penalised because his wait was not mostly supported by his legs, but his arms) There could have been a penalty for the Welsh 5 for going off his feet and a penalty against the Welsh 2 for coming in the side. So in a clip of a breakdown lasting a few seconds, we find almost a potential penalty a second, when in fact there was none given :)


As a coach you may see a very effective clear out, but it is technically against the rules and is dangerous play - it broke Adam's shoulder and something similar killed snid.

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Tue Jun 11, 2013 5:18 pm
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Post Re: 'Clear out' clarification pls !
deludedgenius wrote:
Blindside wrote:
Machiavelli wrote:
This was Botha incident and isn't really what I was getting at ... at least it's shoulder to shoulder ...
I've been more concerned with the blatant taking people out that aren't concerned directly with the ruck and the sole purpose of the offender is to take a player out of the game and any chance to participate in said ruck. I've also seen players cross the gain line so to do ...

It's mayhem and the ref and others are so preoccupied with the breakdown the peripheral offences are ignored and are dangerous ..?

Image




Interesting vid there..... Botha clean out was in my opinion excellent....(im not sure if according to specific of the laws he could have been penalised because his wait was not mostly supported by his legs, but his arms) There could have been a penalty for the Welsh 5 for going off his feet and a penalty against the Welsh 2 for coming in the side. So in a clip of a breakdown lasting a few seconds, we find almost a potential penalty a second, when in fact there was none given :)


As a coach you may see a very effective clear out, but it is technically against the rules and is dangerous play - it broke Adam's shoulder and something similar killed snid.




What did he do wrong ?

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Tue Jun 11, 2013 7:14 pm
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Post Re: 'Clear out' clarification pls !
To start with he did bind to one of his team mates, which you are supposed to do

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Tue Jun 11, 2013 8:02 pm
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Post Re: 'Clear out' clarification pls !
deludedgenius wrote:
To start with he did bind to one of his team mates, which you are supposed to do




Im genuinely confused as i dont know the wording of the law, but there is no team mate available to bind to. He has entered the ruck with open shoulders and had his contact been not so "effective" would have probably ended up binding Adam.

If i was asked has he attempted to hurt Jones..... i would say probably, but within the laws, at least as the laws are interpreted.
What are the technical wordings, that if implemented, make this an illegal act ? :dontknow:

Another infringement at this one snap shot in rugby, are a couple of SA forwards in front of the hindmost foot,

So that makes at least 3 and if you are correct 4, in one snap shot, in once ruck.

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“None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free.”
"The price of anything is the amount of life you exchange for


Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:31 pm
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