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'Clear out' clarification pls ! 
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Post Re: 'Clear out' clarification pls !
http://www.irblaws.com/index.php?law=16&language=EN

I'd say Bakkies was in violation of 16.2 a and b, and 16.3 a.

But I agree he was in line with the normal interpretations, even if they are against the laws of the game. In the same way the hit in the scrum is also technically illegal but tolerated.

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Tue Jun 11, 2013 9:53 pm
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Post Re: 'Clear out' clarification pls !
deludedgenius wrote:
http://www.irblaws.com/index.php?law=16&language=EN

I'd say Bakkies was in violation of 16.2 a and b, and 16.3 a.

But I agree he was in line with the normal interpretations, even if they are against the laws of the game. In the same way the hit in the scrum is also technically illegal but tolerated.




Yes .... cant disagree, the argument could be made for all three.

Watch the technique used to enter the ruck towards the end of this little trailer.... it is not described in full, but entering under the other player as low as possible and not binding is clear in what they are trying to achieve.
http://www.therugbysite.com/videos/27-c ... out-attack

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Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:12 pm
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Post Re: 'Clear out' clarification pls !
Its what they want to do to get an advantage, but contravenes several laws and is generally not punished

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Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:23 pm
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Post Re: 'Clear out' clarification pls !
The video doesn't bloody work on my tablet, will have to have a look on my laptop tomorrow

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Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:24 pm
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Post Re: 'Clear out' clarification pls !
Great link to the irb laws... you can register and test yourself on the laws of the game in minutes

:D

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Tue Jun 11, 2013 10:37 pm
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Post Re: 'Clear out' clarification pls !
http://www.irblaws.com/index.php?law=16&language=EN


One for the "favourites", right enough. Yet another Login though.


Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:29 am
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Post Re: 'Clear out' clarification pls !
looking at it in slo-mo there are no SA players on their feet, so technically it could even be argued that the ruck was over and we had moved to the xet pahse of play, which opens up a shed load of other offences and penalties.

What it DOES go to prove is what a top international ref said to me a year or so ago, that being "if refs penalised every offence at the breakdown then every breakdown would end in a penalty".

The law states a player must bind before or simultaneously driving. if there are no players on their feet then how can there be a ruck?


16.2 Joining a ruck

(a) All players forming, joining or taking part in a ruck must have their heads and shoulders no lower than their hips.
Sanction: Free Kick

(b) A player joining a ruck must bind on a team-mate or an opponent, using the whole arm. The bind must either precede, or be simultaneous with, contact with any other part of the body of the player joining the ruck.
Sanction: Penalty kick

(c) Placing a hand on another player in the ruck does not constitute binding.
Sanction: Penalty kick

(d) All players forming, joining or taking part in a ruck must be on their feet.

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Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:53 pm
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Post Re: 'Clear out' clarification pls !
First,..thks guys for the edifying input and broadened context.

Yes the todays breakdown is riddled with offences that refs could blow for.

I believe that the ref has 'powers' to decided on the effect on the course of the game and can sensibly waive the offence?

I believe that the blatancy of the offence and the dangerous nature of it is important and that's why I raised the 'compound' offence of ... not entering by the back door, not binding on, going offiside, tackling a man without the ball or not truly within the ruck and finally lazy return and hampering the opponents use of the ball ...and is dangerous ...That's a list of crimes that deserves more than a blind eye (I refer to the lone runner who targets a member of the opponent who is isolated, often uses the shoulder etc etc and commits all these fouls).

Finally the breakdown personifies how lax reffing can become 'norm' and compounded when multiple laws apply.

I can't defend the other end of the spectrum,.... the simple offence of not putting the ball in straight in the scrum which is not penalised either and is just a simple example of the reffing malaise ; leave alone N and S Hemp different general interpretation and application.

It's a mess in general.

Rant over ..

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Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:20 pm
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Post Re: 'Clear out' clarification pls !
Deserved rant though, I agree with it all pretty much. but by god it is a hard job reffing a match :D

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Wed Jun 12, 2013 8:53 pm
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Post Re: 'Clear out' clarification pls !
Chris ScumV wrote:
Deserved rant though, I agree with it all pretty much. but by god it is a hard job reffing a match :D

In my experience U 8s were the worst to ref ... just one big bloody breakdown ! :D.. or maybe 'swarm' is a better description...

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Wed Jun 12, 2013 9:25 pm
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Post Re: 'Clear out' clarification pls !
Cluster?


Thu Jun 13, 2013 7:04 am
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Post Re: 'Clear out' clarification pls !
Blanket rugby, where you can throw a blanket over the ball and cover all the players on the pitch :thumbright:

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Thu Jun 13, 2013 8:59 am
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Post Re: 'Clear out' clarification pls !
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Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:32 pm
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Post Re: 'Clear out' clarification pls !
NZ do this battering ram constantly - far more than most sides. Its dangerous, it's illegal, it's always been illegal but yet again is an example of referees refusing to implement the laws of the game.

At BEST its a penalty offence for off the feet. At worse levels its a card for dangerous play/shoulder charging.

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Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:23 am
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