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New Scrum Law Trial MERGED THREAD 
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Post New Scrum Law Trial MERGED THREAD
IRB trialling another new scrum variation in the pacific:-

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,2588 ... 22,00.html

Quote:
The "crouch", "touch", "set" engagement calls currently being trialled globally are maintained within the PRC trial but in a revision to the technique of engagement, props will be expected to bind using their outside arm after the referee has called "touch" in the sequence.

The front-rows will maintain the bind and the referee will then call "set" and the two packs will be permitted to engage. In this sequence, with the props bound, the "set" call is not a command to engage, but an instruction that the front-rows may come together when ready.


Looks like a good thing to me but looks a bit vague - is it a staggered engage where the props engage on the touch then the rest of the pack of the set?
Adam Jones could be screwed if the refs check for a legal bind prior to engagement.

Still nothing about them addressing the early shove and feeding. Although those laws exist already if refs could be arsed to enforce.

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Thu Feb 21, 2013 7:10 pm
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Post Re: New Scrum Law Trial
in general the old laws worked when they were applied

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Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:19 pm
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Post Re: New Scrum Law Trial
http://www.inattheside.com/new-scrum-la ... ols-rugby/

Also changing in South africa

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Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:29 pm
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Post Re: New Scrum Law Trial
jimcardiff wrote:
in general the old laws worked when they were applied


Go and find some old scrums on youtube, they were a complete mess, the difference is that they werent trying to cheat as much by dropping it if they didnt get a favourable engagement.

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Thu Feb 21, 2013 8:35 pm
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Post Re: New Scrum Law Trial
There is one term in all that , that should be used at all levels.
Props to PRE BIND.
To me that should include a sequnce of both front rows being engaged & properly bound, then bring in the back five.
push allowed only when ball has been put in. the only way I can then seeing it having to be reset is if they collapse or wheel to far. (And, tongue in cheek, If there is a crooked feed. :D )
Maybe this is so easy a solution that the powers can't see it. :dontknow:


Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:14 pm
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Post Re: New Scrum Law Trial
jimcardiff wrote:
in general the old laws worked when they were applied


I'd tend to agree with that. The problem is the lack of enforcement of the current laws.

Simply (i) legal binding (ii) No early drive and (iii) straight feed would solve 90% of the problem.

No pissing contest over who can bind in the most imaginative way to get a lever, then no push/shove contest before the ball then a fair competition fo r it.

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'It's now very common to hear people say, "I'm rather offended by that", as if that gives them certain rights. It's no more than a whine. It has no meaning, it has no purpose, it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. "I'm offended by that." Well, so *fupping* what?' —Stephen Fry

"You like PhillBB demand facts for debate........My premise needs no facts to debate it" - Rosario on "how to look like an idiot"

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Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:22 am
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Post Re: New Scrum Law Trial
String, I think most of us see it thar way, BUT how do we convince the idiots who run the asylum. :D


Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:55 am
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Post Re: New Scrum Law Trial
More on the "Crouch, Bind, Set" trial:-

http://www.irblaws.com/index.php?domain=16&language=EN

Somewhat amusingly even on their own video they have a not straight feed that bypassed all the quality control and made it live as this twitter response shows:-

Quote:
Via“@addzy123: New scrum sequence from IRB http://www.irblaws.com/?domain=16
Dear God @brettgosper look at 2nd put-in not straight- your own video!!

Seriously @brettgosper if that sort of feeding is allowed the promises of IRB re new scrum laws have been worthless.

@brianmoore666 We had also noticed this and can't blame camera angle as it is just not straight feed .Video needs re doing.


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'It's now very common to hear people say, "I'm rather offended by that", as if that gives them certain rights. It's no more than a whine. It has no meaning, it has no purpose, it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. "I'm offended by that." Well, so *fupping* what?' —Stephen Fry

"You like PhillBB demand facts for debate........My premise needs no facts to debate it" - Rosario on "how to look like an idiot"

http://www.flickr.com/photos/whitcomberd/


Thu Jun 27, 2013 3:43 am
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Post Re: New Scrum Law Trial
More from Brian Moore's Twitter (who is at the IRB scrummaging workshop)

Image

See - The "hit" does not legally exist! Ping it !

Image

[img]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BRKJ-xbCQAEZDlz.jpg:large][/img]

Image

So, acceptance that referees are NOT applying the existing laws. Maybe this new one will fix the problem but for that to work the IRB HAS to assess, sanction and force referees to actually referee as per above. The directives have also been sent to all top level coaches so no excuse for players "not knowing".

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'It's now very common to hear people say, "I'm rather offended by that", as if that gives them certain rights. It's no more than a whine. It has no meaning, it has no purpose, it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. "I'm offended by that." Well, so *fupping* what?' —Stephen Fry

"You like PhillBB demand facts for debate........My premise needs no facts to debate it" - Rosario on "how to look like an idiot"

http://www.flickr.com/photos/whitcomberd/


Fri Aug 09, 2013 1:29 am
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Post Re: New Scrum Law Trial
Latest RFU guidance

Scrum Engagement
Update for Players, Coaches & Referees
August 2013

Since the decision by the International Rugby Board (IRB) to trial an amendment to the scrum engagement process, a number of developmental training sessions have and are taking place around the country for players coaches and referees.

From these sessions, requests for clarification were sought, which are now listed below:


1. COMMANDS: Crouch-Bind-Set:

a) Crouch: Interlocking – when teams crouch, heads must already be interlocked (i.e. in the space created by the opposition). Ear to ear is acceptable.

b) Bind: Before the Set: What is acceptable ‘Binding?’
— Tight head: Grip the jersey of the opposing LH on the side or the back. No downward pressure on the loose head, and stay off the LHs arm (right arm, outside arm bind)
— Loose head: Grip the jersey of the opposing TH on the side or the back. Stay square. (left arm, inside arm bind)
— Props can rebind as long as the ‘new bind’ is legal, the bind should remain legal throughout the scrum.

c) Between Bind and Set, the referee must see (before saying set):
– Both “Front Rows” are stable and at the correct height.
– All Front Row Players must have their weight on at least one foot in a position to make a drive/shove.
– Each stage clearly complied with before moving on to next stage - This may take some moments = ‘Cadence’
– On the call ‘Set’ the Front Rows should engage and hold. There should be no drive/push on or after the “Set” call. Sanction for early push / drive: Free Kick


2. Before the ball is introduced:
— The scrum must be square, stable, and parallel to the touchlines.
— There should be no pushing before the ball comes in.
— Head and shoulders must be above the hips
— No binding should take place between the Props on the elbow.


3. The Ball
a) The Referee says:”Yes 9” which is an invitation not an instruction to put the ball in the scrum.
b) Saying “Yes 9” is not a signal for teams to push, the signal to push is when the ball enters the scrum. Sanction for early push: Free Kick
c) The Scrum Half must stand in middle of tunnel and part of ball must hit the middle of the tunnel.
d) The Scrum Half can tap the Hooker and then put the ball in the scrum to enable them to time the entry of the ball.
e) The Scrum Half should put the ball in immediately. Sanction for undue delay: Free Kick
f) The ball to be put in straight. Sanction for ‘not straight’: Free Kick



• Repeated identical offences should be sanctioned by a Penalty.

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Wed Aug 14, 2013 8:58 pm
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Post Re: New Scrum Law Trial
Sounds pretty sensible to me

We'll see if the refs enforce no early pushing and putting the ball in straight

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Wed Aug 14, 2013 9:10 pm
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Post Re: New Scrum Law Trial
Can you see Australia resting gently against the opposition and then waiting patiently for the opposition scrumhalf to put the ball in?

I can imagine coaches all over the world licking their lips .....

Nigel Owens & Co. will be barking at scrumhalves for the rest of their careers - "Get it in, GET IT IN!!"

Adam can play until he's 50 ......


Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:05 am
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Post Re: New Scrum Law Trial
Ensuring no pushing before the ball is in then the feed is straight would likely address 90% of the problems without the other changes.

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'It's now very common to hear people say, "I'm rather offended by that", as if that gives them certain rights. It's no more than a whine. It has no meaning, it has no purpose, it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. "I'm offended by that." Well, so *fupping* what?' —Stephen Fry

"You like PhillBB demand facts for debate........My premise needs no facts to debate it" - Rosario on "how to look like an idiot"

http://www.flickr.com/photos/whitcomberd/


Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:04 am
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Post Re: New Scrum Law Trial
Seemed to operate well last evening - ITM Cup Wellington v Counties Manukau.

Appeared to reward strong scrumaging props, balanced steady scrums, technically proficient No 8s, sniping half backs, first fives with more time, 8/9 blindside attack.


Fri Aug 16, 2013 5:17 am
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Post Re: New Scrum Law Trial
Sounds damn good - how many penalties in the game, Goann?


Fri Aug 16, 2013 6:52 am
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