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which is better, concede a try or lose a player to the bin? 

my question which is is it preferable, to concede 7 points or lose a player for 10 minutes?
Better to concede 7 pointer 23%  23%  [ 4 ]
Better to lose a player for ten minutes 5%  5%  [ 1 ]
Players must take a chance that the card won't be given -"play the ref" 70%  70%  [ 12 ]
Total votes : 17

which is better, concede a try or lose a player to the bin? 
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Post Re: which is better, concede a try or lose a player to the bin?
lloydsa wrote:
Cbeeby wrote:
lloydsa wrote:

seeing as it hit his thigh then surely it should be a knock on ? and oconner was playing the ref for the card in my opinion.

What?

Hit his thigh, a knock on?

O'Connor did what any person with even quarter of a brain should do in that situation, kick the ball over the try line and flop on it as no-one was going to beat him to the ball regardless, that's not playing the ref, he would have scored, that's called playing the game.

I suggest you read the law book, and take those rose tinted glasses off, as your understanding of the game is quite frankly appalling.




ROFL any where on the knee or above is a knock on..... He clearly played the ref for a yellow in my eyes althought even if he caught the ball he probably still would have scored i just think the yellow card was a very harsh call considering the ball hit the guys thigh and simply refused to catch the ball



If im wrong why the hell dont players do little kicks using their knee to get past the defensive line ? its far quicker and would allow you to get right up close before doing it :L
Also i thought in rugby the leg was defined as below the knee ?
And c. The part of the limb between the knee and foot in vertebrates. is the definition of the leg and you must use your leg to kick the ball?
Soooooooooooo that would mean that the thigh doesnt count and would make it a knock on :)


Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:51 pm
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Post Re: which is better, concede a try or lose a player to the bin?
Duw wrote:
Replays from all angles here, plus unbiased opinion :twisted: :thumbright:

I still reckon 1/2p timed his tackle for the ball being caught, O' Connor showed admirable awareness by NOT catching it (you can see in one clip his hands are out and just as the tackle starts he pulls back) and then calls for the penalty. 1/2p totally suckered into offending.

He probably would have tackled to stop the try anyway of course.

Left the link out you idiot :thumbdown:

http://www.sareferees.co.za/laws/laws_e ... 827144.htm


Fri Jan 20, 2012 10:59 pm
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Post Re: which is better, concede a try or lose a player to the bin?
lloydsa wrote:
Cbeeby wrote:
lloydsa wrote:

seeing as it hit his thigh then surely it should be a knock on ? and oconner was playing the ref for the card in my opinion.

What?

Hit his thigh, a knock on?

O'Connor did what any person with even quarter of a brain should do in that situation, kick the ball over the try line and flop on it as no-one was going to beat him to the ball regardless, that's not playing the ref, he would have scored, that's called playing the game.

I suggest you read the law book, and take those rose tinted glasses off, as your understanding of the game is quite frankly appalling.




ROFL any where on the knee or above is a knock on.....


If you have a computer (which just possibly you might), you are able to search for the laws of rugby, as I did a moment ago. I found the following:

Quote:
DEFINITION: KNOCK-ON
A knock-on occurs when a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward, or when a player hits the ball forward with the hand or arm, or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it.

‘Forward’ means towards the opposing team’s dead ball line.


What game are you talking about?

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Sun Jan 22, 2012 4:05 pm
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Post Re: which is better, concede a try or lose a player to the bin?
lloydsa wrote:


ROFL any where on the knee or above is a knock on..... He clearly played the ref for a yellow in my eyes althought even if he caught the ball he probably still would have scored i just think the yellow card was a very harsh call considering the ball hit the guys thigh and simply refused to catch the ball

See this is the problem about talking with people on a forum, some people just don't know what they are talking about.

You play the game as well, so one would assume you have some knowledge of the subject matter (an assumption you have proven to be totally false) and there is probably 50% or so people on here who haven't ever played the game, so what hope have people got of having a decent informed discussion?


Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:33 pm
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Post Re: which is better, concede a try or lose a player to the bin?
Duw wrote:
Replays from all angles here, plus unbiased opinion :twisted: :thumbright:

I still reckon 1/2p timed his tackle for the ball being caught, O' Connor showed admirable awareness by NOT catching it (you can see in one clip his hands are out and just as the tackle starts he pulls back) and then calls for the penalty. 1/2p totally suckered into offending.

He probably would have tackled to stop the try anyway of course.

Yes absolutely, he had to, he wasn't going to beat O'Connor in a foot race (by that I mean if he hadn't made the tackle, he would not have got to the ball first to prevent O'Connor flopping on it to score), and O'Connor had to play the ball, Halfpenny had to hope that O'Connor had some sort of brain spasm (bought on, presumably, by the incorrect belief that he had to play the ball with his hands and that if he touched it with anything else above the knee was a knock on, hahahahaha) and caught the ball making a perfectly legal tackle.

Of course even Halfpenny would have known that he wouldn't catch it, so he committed a professional foul to prevent a try.


Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:39 pm
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Post Re: which is better, concede a try or lose a player to the bin?
lloydsa wrote:

If im wrong why the hell dont players do little kicks using their knee to get past the defensive line ? its far quicker and would allow you to get right up close before doing it :L
Also i thought in rugby the leg was defined as below the knee ?
And c. The part of the limb between the knee and foot in vertebrates. is the definition of the leg and you must use your leg to kick the ball?
Soooooooooooo that would mean that the thigh doesnt count and would make it a knock on :)

You are wrong, totally and utterly.

As for kicks past the defence, well once you move the ball out of your hands, and kick it through, you are no longer in possession of it, you have to get it past the players in front of you with poinpoint accuracy and hope they don't move and intercept it you have to regather it, there are lots of variables which is why when a player does the kick through, it's generally a last resort and more often than not a failure.

Why don't they use the knee instead of the foot, that is a good question, and I believe that probably in using the knee you are deemed to have not kicked it, which equates to throwing it with your hands over the players head running passed him and catching it again, which is also illegal when done on purpose. (you are also no longer allowed to use your knee to take penalty taps)


Sun Jan 22, 2012 5:47 pm
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Post Re: which is better, concede a try or lose a player to the bin?
Glyndwr wrote:

Quote:
DEFINITION: KNOCK-ON
A knock-on occurs when a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward, or when a player hits the ball forward with the hand or arm, or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it.

‘Forward’ means towards the opposing team’s dead ball line.


What game are you talking about?


Ok prime example here what happens when you hit the ball forward using your chest or shoulder?

I know the head does not count for a knock on but that is the only body part which doesn't ?


Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:30 am
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Post Re: which is better, concede a try or lose a player to the bin?
Cbeeby wrote:

Why don't they use the knee instead of the foot, that is a good question, and I believe that probably in using the knee you are deemed to have not kicked it, which equates to throwing it with your hands over the players head running passed him and catching it again, which is also illegal when done on purpose. (you are also no longer allowed to use your knee to take penalty taps)


Possibly, there are no exact rules covering this matter but my opinion would be that most referees would blow up for a scrum or a penalty. And seeing the ball hit someones thigh and then going forward could be deemed as a loss of control and a knock on even if it is not come from the hand or arm ( by the definition of the laws that is)
Also what happenes when you chest the ball forward seeing there is no exact definition for that seeing a knock on only occurs when it hits the hand or arm according to someone on the previous post.


Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:34 am
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Post Re: which is better, concede a try or lose a player to the bin?
http://www.irblaws.com/EN/laws/3/12/109 ... clause_109


Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:35 am
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Post Re: which is better, concede a try or lose a player to the bin?
DEFINITION: KNOCK-ON
A knock-on occurs when a player loses possession of the ball and it goes forward(thats a major point it goes forward without being kicked its a knock on), or( this means or it does not mean and so that would mean only one of these variables would need to be true to cause a knock on) when a player hits the ball forward with the hand or arm, or when the ball hits the hand or arm and goes forward, and the ball touches the ground or another player before the original player can catch it.
‘Forward’ means towards the opposing team’s dead ball line.


Mon Jan 23, 2012 2:39 am
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Post Re: which is better, concede a try or lose a player to the bin?
Nigelrefowens Nigel Owens
@
@lloydthomas2 its a knock on i am afraid.it use to be ok to do i think its very skillfull and should be allowed, but its a knock on in law


From Nigel Owens on twitter :D I asked him what would occur if you were to kick the ball using your knee and that was the answer i was given so i assume the same would apply to your thigh.


Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:15 pm
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Post Re: which is better, concede a try or lose a player to the bin?
if you try to kick it, as I said above it wouldn't be allowed.

That has no relevance on open play though


Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:28 pm
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Post Re: which is better, concede a try or lose a player to the bin?
lloydsa wrote:
Cbeeby wrote:

Why don't they use the knee instead of the foot, that is a good question, and I believe that probably in using the knee you are deemed to have not kicked it, which equates to throwing it with your hands over the players head running passed him and catching it again, which is also illegal when done on purpose. (you are also no longer allowed to use your knee to take penalty taps)


Possibly, there are no exact rules covering this matter but my opinion would be that most referees would blow up for a scrum or a penalty. And seeing the ball hit someones thigh and then going forward could be deemed as a loss of control and a knock on even if it is not come from the hand or arm ( by the definition of the laws that is)
Also what happenes when you chest the ball forward seeing there is no exact definition for that seeing a knock on only occurs when it hits the hand or arm according to someone on the previous post.

if the ball hits you in the chest, face, *b@ll@cks*, knee, thigh or ass, it isn't a knock on, unless it touched your hands or arm first.

It doesn't matter what part of the body you hit it with, unless it has touched your hands or arms first, it cannot be a knock on.


Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:30 pm
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Post Re: which is better, concede a try or lose a player to the bin?
lloydsa wrote:
if you were to kick the ball using your knee


You cannot. Therefore dropping the ball forward in order to propel it with your knee is when the offence occurs.

Check the definiton of "kick" in the laws.

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Mon Jan 23, 2012 6:50 pm
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Post Re: which is better, concede a try or lose a player to the bin?
Image

:D


Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:49 am
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