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Fra compared to NZ, etc ...physical prep, skills . 
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Post Fra compared to NZ, etc ...physical prep, skills .
A person previously involved with the Toulouse and french Rugby set up in terms of physical prep, skills etc has returned after spending some time in NZ after finishing his Doctorate in Sports Sciences.

This is a translation of the french article with highlighted areas by me that I believe are important.

It is a somewhat clumsy translation but hopefully does impart some info (I have included some of my 'ed' comments) ..
I did miss 'episode 1'

Nothing remarkable maybe !? ... but some interesting observations which ring true to me.

Hope that you find it interesting if not very illuminating?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Physical preparation: a Frenchy (not to be misinterpreted :D ed) in Kiwis (episode 2)
jeremy fadat

Simon Barrué-Belou (31 years old) is a physical trainer and physiotherapist. He worked for 3 seasons at Stade Toulousain, first in the staff of Guy Novès and then Ugo Mola. In early 2018, he went to visit several training facilities during a month-long trip to New Zealand. Second episode of a saga in three stages (from Tuesday to Thursday): the content of the physical preparation.

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Simon Barrué-Belou: After my experience at the Stade Toulousain which we ended last summer, in agreement with the club, I wanted to take advantage of the time I had to go see what is done elsewhere. Out of curiosity, I wanted to take a step back on my activity because, when we are in office, we often have our ‘heads on the handlebars’.(a term that says preoccupied with our own and not considering the wider world ed)o In Toulouse, my role was to coordinate the link between physical preparation and the medical sector, and I ran into difficulties related to our organizational capacity (ie unclear interfaces. ed) New Zealand has always been and remains the reference in our sport, in terms of results, quality of training and development of players.

So I wanted to know how the preparation and organization on site were really different from ours. After spending six months finishing my doctorate in sports science started four years ago, I left mid-January to experience several other structures. I first had the chance to visit the province of Blues, then discover the structure of Auckland Rugby and its international academy but also see the Warriors (Rugby League). And, finally, to make a brief stay at the Crusaders in Christchurch. It is obvious that my stint at the Toulouse Stadium opened the doors of these clubs but my approach was also supported by New Zealand players with whom I worked during this period. I take this opportunity to thank them for their help, as well as their families.

"Even the best players in New Zealand, those who play at the highest international level, repeat skills all day long"
Physical preparation:

Q Rugbyrama: In the content, is physical preparation in New Zealand different, even harder, than that done in France?

S.B.B. : The content of the physical preparation is what surprised me the least of all this trip because it is what looks most like what we do. We use the same tools, the same methods and the workloads are similar. On the other hand, there are differences and, again, a paradox: the preparation has surely a more important place, notably by its influence on the planning of all the trainings. This is because it is central to the organization. But, at the same time, it is the rugby and the individual technique that take precedence, which are at the heart of the sessions, not the physical aspects.

Even the best players in New Zealand, those who play at the highest international level, repeat skills all day long, simple things, without intensity, passes, small cells of play. They do it before, during, after training but also during physicals, muscular or rehabilitation sessions (comment we in the N Hemp often comment on the failure of basic skills individual, unit etc ..this is highlighted here ed):. Of course, the execution that is performed later at high intensity is not at all the same. It is on these aspects, I believe, that their training is different from ours.

"On the technical side, New Zealand players are often very precise"

Q : Because, when we look at Super Rugby, we feel that it goes faster than Top 14. Can this be explained by the physical dimension?

S.B.B. : It's true, it's faster than the Top 14. Several reasons can explain it. First the timing and duration of the championship since the Super Rugby lasts four or five months when the Top 14 lasts eight or nine months. After this competition, New Zealand players continue to dispute other levels, whether international or not. So if we add up all the games that a New Zealander can potentially play in a season, we are not far from France. But, in reality, none play as much as some of our players. This is due to larger numbers, so more opportunities for coaches, who plan alternatives, surely more than we do.

Beyond that, the fact that they have two or three different coaches depending on the competition they are playing (Super Rugby, ITM cup, international matches), that they are put in competition with other players, that they evolve in several game systems and that they prepare competitions at different times, leads them to be less solicited, less stereotyped than our players.

Then there is the importance of offseason and its impact in preparation. In the Top 14 seasons (three weeks to two months maximum depending on the year), most clubs (especially those who finish late) do not have the opportunity to develop anything on the physical part or even on the rugby. Although we have recently tried to address that. When New Zealanders work for three months without competition, they do almost all the work of their season and only have to deal with the state of form once the competition has started.

"The role of the preparation today is not just to get to the gym or the race"

Q : What else?

S.B.B. : We must also consider the intensity of training. New Zealanders certainly arrive better than us in contrasting sessions without intensity in which we repeat gestures, animations, etc., with others at very high intensity, whether for rugby collective or for all prep sessions. They are never on a "between two", so they manage to reach high work intensities without taking risks because the quantities are very well controlled.
( I confess to not totally understanding this point :scratch: Ed)

Finally, as I said, on a technical level, New Zealand players are often very precise, which necessarily speeds up the game. We could propose many other explanatory parameters. So yes, the Super Rugby reaches higher intensities than at home but surely not because of a different physical preparation. It is the context that differs. It is often quick to incriminate the physical preparation but, without seeking to preach for my parish, I am not sure that it is so far from the account. Our context is that the quality of physical preparation will be increasingly evaluated on its ability to prevent injuries, particularly musculotendinous, rather than its impact on performance, which tends to become standardized between clubs.

"I think the strength of New Zealanders is knowing how to integrate all the skills into their staffs"

Q : So what lessons do you learn about our physical training in France?

S.B.B. : Perhaps in France, physical preparation is out of place. I believe that rugby is an avoidance sport that is primarily technical, so that physical preparation is not there to compensate for the limitations of individual technique. For a player to be successful, it may be necessary to relativize the part of his physical qualities and thus put rugby and technique forward. But that does not mean that we must relegate the preparation to a second role, on the contrary! The role of prepas, today, is not just to get to the gym or the race. They are the guarantee of the physiological impact of all training.

(I think that this relates to the typical preoccupation of TOP14 'style' of winning with power up front rather than complete footballing skills. God know, in the past, french rugby had it the other way around Ed)

They have the skills to prepare men to play rugby in a coach-defined game system, to quantify and optimize the workload in order to perform well and prevent injury. These aspects are complementary to the skills of the coaches on the technique and the strategy of play. One must be able to overcome the opposition between physical work and rugby work. It's the same thing and it's inseparable. I believe that the strength of New Zealanders is to know how to integrate all the skills in their staffs. There, there are not several sectors (rugby, prep, medical and others), there is only one and it is, in part, what makes the difference.

(IE integrated approach compared to interrelated aspects ed)'

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Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:24 pm
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Post Re: Fra compared to NZ, etc ...physical prep, skills .
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

PS .. this directly relates to comparison to french rugby but I believe that it does apply in general to the N Hemp?

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Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:38 pm
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Post Re: Fra compared to NZ, etc ...physical prep, skills .
A bit arse about face I'm afraid, I found Episode 1 5there will be episode 3 tomorrow)

https://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/prepa-ph ... tory.shtml

This time I will only very generalise and not totally translate (it was more of a general intro anyway):

ORGANISATION ... is a fundamental point :

-As mentioned in Episode 2 ..[b].integration is the name of the game, horizontally and vertically and prioritise IE A PRYAMID but with a common goal immediate and ultimate. Players are directly included in that integration. Development another integrated factor

[/b]

-The Sports Scientific is[b] covered to a broader extent e.g mental skills and individual and team priorities well considered. Psychological aspects are a partner of fitness, skills and technique[/b]

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Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:58 pm
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Post Re: Fra compared to NZ, etc ...physical prep, skills .
Thanks Tel.

Such articles are too few and far between, i find it fascinating.

Its funny a sack Gatland thread can run to twenty pages on a knee-jerk and something as informative as this hardly gets any interest :dontknow: I think people need to realize the work and systems and the constant evolution that has gone into producing a player that makes correct decisions a high percentage of the time, surrounded by players who can do the same. Yet we expect that merely selecting a player for international rugby, he will suddenly metamorphosize into a international class player.

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Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:04 pm
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Post Re: Fra compared to NZ, etc ...physical prep, skills .
:thumbright:
That’s some interesting shit! :shock:
An avoidance sport, physical preparation can’t compensate natural technique. Fascinating stuff........that is a cracking way of looking at it.

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Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:43 am
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Post Re: Fra compared to NZ, etc ...physical prep, skills .
I find fascinating the structure and approach to rugby in NZ and i despair at the opportunity lost by Wales to innovate and evolve, making use of unique advantages in terms of geography and club densities and facilities, SW is the most densely populated region in the southwest of the United Kingdom, it is home to around 2.2 million people and everyone is within a hours drive of either Swansea or Cardiff, Swansea is 40 minutes from Cardiff. Yet NZ is able to put in place a co-operative and innovative systems with shared goals, while we can only put in place excuses and conflict. This guy only looked at the top end of the game, i would imagine that on the development side of the game the contrast even greater.

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Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:14 am
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Post Re: Fra compared to NZ, etc ...physical prep, skills .
Once everyone is on the same page, then whoever is in charge can make/ evolve/ carry out a plan, simples. It’ll only get better if they want it to.

Sadly, Wales can’t get in the same section of the bookstore let alone the same page.

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Thu Mar 08, 2018 11:19 am
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Post Re: Fra compared to NZ, etc ...physical prep, skills .
Blindside wrote:
I find fascinating the structure and approach to rugby in NZ and i despair at the opportunity lost by Wales to innovate and evolve, making use of unique advantages in terms of geography and club densities and facilities, SW is the most densely populated region in the southwest of the United Kingdom, it is home to around 2.2 million people and everyone is within a hours drive of either Swansea or Cardiff, Swansea is 40 minutes from Cardiff. Yet NZ is able to put in place a co-operative and innovative systems with shared goals, while we can only put in place excuses and conflict. This guy only looked at the top end of the game, i would imagine that on the development side of the game the contrast even greater.


True, but he commented on how the Pyramid incl development is intergrated.

also how the players take advantage of different internal leagues/games etc and how the overall effectiveness is further improved by the cross influences and Coaching experienced. Playing to the same hymn sheet by the total community.

Compare that to Welsh International level, Regions, Premiership, Academies and others that are left to flounder in so called Community Rugby!!??

Integrated ?? :D :D

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Thu Mar 08, 2018 1:08 pm
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Post Re: Fra compared to NZ, etc ...physical prep, skills .
I believe that if one considers the message here:

Summary level

France : huge division Club and Country and a huge infrastructure not well organised and 30 Pro Clubs. Since Laporte has arrived increased tension. Development abused. Big business presence/interference tipping the overal Pro Rugby boat.

Wales as per commented on last post here ie not integrated and poorly interrelated.

Eng ...more respect and formal integration PRL and RFU but PRL are biased towards increased Club governance.

Ireland ..Conversely, Union in more control ...Clubs better funded and resourced. Optimum level .... but some compromise beckons with budget implications (already evident, cue Munster finances and likely player salary inflation) Good National Coaching and club liaison.

Sco ...Union/Club level working quietly and National Coaching has improved considerably but player exit is worrying. Talk of buying an Aviva Club seems misplaced

The above comments are very general and one must not forget ...

EPCR where the motivation is increased club governance with intentions to percolate to a more International geography.

I'm not forgetting Pro14 presence which is interesting and a potential catalyst to increase SA presence in the N Hemp

However, back on direct topic ... the NZ integrated Union, Club and overall infrastructure is admirable and a model. Size and clout in the future pro rugby world in some question but the distance that the others are behind in their
administration and development seems a comfortable cusion at the mo.

The message is there but other administrations are so naive and incompetent that they really cannot see the wood for the trees. Eng will compete on the field beçause of raw numbers and able top level coaches. Ireland too but without the same çall on resources. Fra have the potential but infighting will continue. Sco largely strapped but making a decent attempt but wont figure. Italy ...without any immediate hope and N And S Hemp development regions only paid token to by the World Rugby.

Other S Hemp major countries ..

Aus have the basic resources but not the Business aspect.
SA fallen from previous stature and Business aspects hitting them too.
Argentina .....wobbly within their new attempt at independence from exported players.
Super Rugby somewhat fragile and SA presence questioned.

Ironically 6 Nations just seems. to be impervious :D

Hapy Days

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Thu Mar 08, 2018 5:16 pm
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Post Re: Fra compared to NZ, etc ...physical prep, skills .
Episode 3 more concerned with development of younger players I've highlighted etc as before

jeremy fadat


To read alsoPrepa physique: a Frenchy among Kiwis (episode 2)


Training and development of players:

Beyond the professional club structures, you also visited the Auckland Rugby Academy. What did you get out of it?

S.B.B. It was very interesting to see how it works for young players. The organization on site is different from those known in our training centers. For what I saw in Auckland, there is no academy in the province of Blues, for example. The pool of players is formed both in the different clubs of the city and in the Academy of Auckland Rugby. This is an entity that encompasses the different clubs and that trains the best players. Young people develop in terms of rugby and on the physical level. This structure has the particularity of preparing premises but also to train foreigners who come to spend one to six months (Argentines, Japanese, etc.).

"Aged 14 to 20 years old, players learn the basics and are immersed in a professional environment very early."

What does it bring them for the future?

S.B.B. When they arrive at the gates of the high level, the young players have a physical preparation and a very technical background. It is not conceivable that the prepas of big teams find themselves to work the young to put them at the level of the pros as can be seen in Top 14. There is a major difference: they are high-level athletes before to become professional, and not the other way around! At home, most young players who are physically ready, who have at least the basics and who have a professional approach to coaching (in food, privacy, etc.), are foreigners. However, I do not think we should focus on physical criteria in our youth. On the contrary, it is the technical qualities and rugby that must prevail. Surely we've gone too far by using physical standards to detect our high potentials when this must be secondary. However, they must be able to acquire a simple physical basis: aerobic potential, running technique, sheathing and muscular technique early enough so that they are prepared to cash in large workloads and avoid injuries .

"But do not be fooled, you do not have to physically prepare the young as you train the pros, it's all about prioritization, and it's very good in the New Zealand way of doing things."

Do you think that New Zealanders, especially young people, are more serious than us in their approach to this sector?

S.B.B. : Not necessarily. I think there are many serious people in France too and many clubs work well. After that, there are still different mentalities and cultures. I have the impression that New Zealanders are very serious but, paradoxically, they do not take themselves seriously, so the working atmosphere is much more relaxed while the work itself is more rigorous. The players are hardworking, they are demanding and very involved, so there is a real culture of work and training that is instilled in them from their youth. All sessions are done thoroughly. I mean, players are 100% permanently. I had never seen physical sessions with so much motivation and enthusiasm. All players are convinced that each session will bring them a plus, so they are fully committed. This is just as true for prep and rugby sessions, for young players as for professionals of the highest level.

"It seems really comfortable to train them, just give them the session, the staff is never behind them!" This is an aspect that will surely be difficult to change in French rugby but we will get there and I think that this change has already begun. "

On the training plan but even more globally, do we need and can we draw inspiration from New Zealand rugby?

S.B.B. : We inspire, for sure. At present, they are early but it may not be the same in ten or twenty years. In any case, I think you should not, however, try to copy them! It may seem contradictory to go see them work but if we just copy them, we will still be a few years behind. Anyway, everything we see at home is not necessarily transposable or usable at home for many reasons. We have differences, we must surely cultivate them but we must have a vision, put a system in place (on the training, on the calendar and the remuneration of the players, on the relations between the clubs and the Federation) and maybe to rely on our qualities and our identity. Former all blacks players, whom I met during this trip, say they were afraid to play against France because it was an unpredictable team and today it is no longer the case.

"I'm not a coach, it's not my field and it's probably more difficult now because rugby has changed, it's necessary to program the first few games because everything is more complex and the defenses more and more But can we reconcile this or are we doomed to change our identity to become competitive at the highest level? It's up to the experts to judge. "

In conclusion, how has this adventure changed your certainties or your questions?

S.B.B. : I will remember from this experience that the physical preparation of the main training structures is very similar to that which we practice in Top 14. The main differences are in the organization and the professionalism of the staffs, in the mentalities and the culture of the and of course, as everyone knows, in the system itself which governs the calendar, the competitions, the remuneration and the development of the players. As far as physical preparation is concerned, I think we have to be humble, because it only represents a part of the performance and we sometimes make the mistake of evaluating its quality simply by the sports results. I come out of these visits confirmed in my convictions, namely that the quality of the work of a staff goes through the decompartmentalization of sectors and men therefore by teamwork. We do not see any individuality that exceeds New Zealand staffs, their strength is collective (I've emphasised this point because it is the recurring theme ed). It seems that the secret is to rely on people who are not only competent but who want to work together (he means not only 'people' he is referring to the total integration of processes and the scope top to bottom ed). Anyway, I left very excited about this immersion.

"I am aware of the work that remains to be done but I think that each of us must dare to try new things, not to be cautious, we have to trust each other, we do not have to The skills we have, we have to know how to exploit them better. "

For formality only , the original reference

https://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/prepa-ph ... tory.shtml

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Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:05 pm
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Post Re: Fra compared to NZ, etc ...physical prep, skills .
Another good post, blimey Tel, that’s a few in a row. You must be drinking some NZ red. :D

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Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:33 am
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Post Re: Fra compared to NZ, etc ...physical prep, skills .
loosechange wrote:
Another good post, blimey Tel, that’s a few in a row. You must be drinking some NZ red. :D


NZ white yes! (getting a bit too strong in % though), NZ red no thank you but some I'mtold are very good!

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Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:36 am
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Post Re: Fra compared to NZ, etc ...physical prep, skills .
Not to try to oversimplify the above, I get the impression that NZ treats rugby as a sport and have developed the science to improve and evolve the game for both the player and the fan. Whereas the NH have gone down the business route in general, forgetting that rugby is a sport for those who play and watch.

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Wed Mar 14, 2018 12:55 pm
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Post Re: Fra compared to NZ, etc ...physical prep, skills .
Thegrimriper wrote:
Not to try to oversimplify the above, I get the impression that NZ treats rugby as a sport and have developed the science to improve and evolve the game for both the player and the fan. Whereas the SH have gone down the business route in general, forgetting that rugby is a sport for those who play and watch.


NH?

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Wed Mar 14, 2018 1:32 pm
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Post Re: Fra compared to NZ, etc ...physical prep, skills .
Tony Panties wrote:
Thegrimriper wrote:
Not to try to oversimplify the above, I get the impression that NZ treats rugby as a sport and have developed the science to improve and evolve the game for both the player and the fan. Whereas the SH have gone down the business route in general, forgetting that rugby is a sport for those who play and watch.


NH?
Yip, I've corrected it now. :oops:

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Wed Mar 14, 2018 3:23 pm
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