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Brive in a mess 
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Post Brive in a mess
Brive are the only Top 14 team to yet win a match this season. Today, Montpellier defeated them 54-10. They have only one losing bonus point so far. It is a shame to see them decline like this - after all, they are one of only three French teams to have ever won the Heineken Cup.


Sun Oct 01, 2017 5:26 pm
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Post Re: Brive in a mess
najbritcol wrote:
Brive are the only Top 14 team to yet win a match this season. Today, Montpellier defeated them 54-10. They have only one losing bonus point so far. It is a shame to see them decline like this - after all, they are one of only three French teams to have ever won the Heineken Cup.


Think you should say that the other 2 have won it 7 times between them and another 5 Clubs have reached the final? ;)

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Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:06 pm
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Post Re: Brive in a mess
Tony Panties wrote:
najbritcol wrote:
Brive are the only Top 14 team to yet win a match this season. Today, Montpellier defeated them 54-10. They have only one losing bonus point so far. It is a shame to see them decline like this - after all, they are one of only three French teams to have ever won the Heineken Cup.


Think you should say that the other 2 have won it 7 times between them and another 5 Clubs have reached the final? ;)


True, but either way Brive seem to be in serious decline, but why? Serious question.


Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:24 pm
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Post Re: Brive in a mess
najbritcol wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
najbritcol wrote:
Brive are the only Top 14 team to yet win a match this season. Today, Montpellier defeated them 54-10. They have only one losing bonus point so far. It is a shame to see them decline like this - after all, they are one of only three French teams to have ever won the Heineken Cup.


Think you should say that the other 2 have won it 7 times between them and another 5 Clubs have reached the final? ;)


True, but either way Brive seem to be in serious decline, but why? Serious question.


Difficult to know, ... they have always been a pretty sure win at home (hi %) but that has crumbled too. Budget inevitably will influence ...

I think the problem is that Top14 should be Top12, continually we see yo-yos to ProDiv2 and whilst the Top part is more virile with less 'rich' clubs in the mix the bottom part is drifting and shows a wider gap in Budgets..

The likes Biarritz and Perpignan are not really asserting themselves after relegation and division between the divisions is widening?

I believe that the N Hemp game needs Conference systems to accommodate a better virile mix.
Aviva and Pro12/14 leagues not a lot different.

Again, I believe that IF SA can migrate better teams to N Hemp that will trigger EPCR and franglais into acceptance of such a revision?

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Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:48 pm
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Post Re: Brive in a mess
Tony Panties wrote:
najbritcol wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
najbritcol wrote:
Brive are the only Top 14 team to yet win a match this season. Today, Montpellier defeated them 54-10. They have only one losing bonus point so far. It is a shame to see them decline like this - after all, they are one of only three French teams to have ever won the Heineken Cup.


Think you should say that the other 2 have won it 7 times between them and another 5 Clubs have reached the final? ;)


True, but either way Brive seem to be in serious decline, but why? Serious question.


Difficult to know, ... they have always been a pretty sure win at home (hi %) but that has crumbled too. Budget inevitably will influence ...

I think the problem is that Top14 should be Top12, continually we see yo-yos to ProDiv2 and whilst the Top part is more virile with less 'rich' clubs in the mix the bottom part is drifting and shows a wider gap in Budgets..

The likes Biarritz and Perpignan are not really asserting themselves after relegation and division between the divisions is widening?

I believe that the N Hemp game needs Conference systems to accommodate a better virile mix.
Aviva and Pro12/14 leagues not a lot different.

Again, I believe that IF SA can migrate better teams to N Hemp that will trigger EPCR and franglais into acceptance of such a revision?


Interesting you say that. I always got the impression that the difference in funding and standards between Top 14 and ProD2 was somewhat smaller than that between the English Premiership and Championship. With the very obvious and crucial exception of Exeter, 'newcomers' rarely do particularly well in the Premiership - look at Worcester, Bristol etc. By contrast, my impression is that the first and second tiers in France are somewhat more mobile and less predictable than in England - cf Lyon and La Rochelle. Even Toulon was a second-tier team for a long time.


Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:17 pm
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Post Re: Brive in a mess
najbritcol wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
najbritcol wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
najbritcol wrote:
Brive are the only Top 14 team to yet win a match this season. Today, Montpellier defeated them 54-10. They have only one losing bonus point so far. It is a shame to see them decline like this - after all, they are one of only three French teams to have ever won the Heineken Cup.


Think you should say that the other 2 have won it 7 times between them and another 5 Clubs have reached the final? ;)


True, but either way Brive seem to be in serious decline, but why? Serious question.


Difficult to know, ... they have always been a pretty sure win at home (hi %) but that has crumbled too. Budget inevitably will influence ...

I think the problem is that Top14 should be Top12, continually we see yo-yos to ProDiv2 and whilst the Top part is more virile with less 'rich' clubs in the mix the bottom part is drifting and shows a wider gap in Budgets..

The likes Biarritz and Perpignan are not really asserting themselves after relegation and division between the divisions is widening?

I believe that the N Hemp game needs Conference systems to accommodate a better virile mix.
Aviva and Pro12/14 leagues not a lot different.

Again, I believe that IF SA can migrate better teams to N Hemp that will trigger EPCR and franglais into acceptance of such a revision?


Interesting you say that. I always got the impression that the difference in funding and standards between Top 14 and ProD2 was somewhat smaller than that between the English Premiership and Championship. With the very obvious and crucial exception of Exeter, 'newcomers' rarely do particularly well in the Premiership - look at Worcester, Bristol etc. By contrast, my impression is that the first and second tiers in France are somewhat more mobile and less predictable than in England - cf Lyon and La Rochelle. Even Toulon was a second-tier team for a long time.


Toulon took a long time despite huge investment.

Lyon have played whore's drawers withI Prodiv2 and Top 14 for some time but support and investment has grown from it.

La Roc have incredible home support and started to take off with greater investment in players and wise buys. They too flirted between the 2 divisions.

Look at the other side of the coin ...Beziers over french Rugby history have the finest record and they have festered in the ProDiv2 for ages, similarly Narbonne. Bourgoin were once a regular Euro presence but have fallen down the divisions...

Bayonne, Biarritz, Perpignn, Grenoble similarly..... Agen currently back in Top14 have won the French championship 8 times and now another yo_yo.

For me it all depends on long term intent coupled with investment, Bordeaux are an example of that.

Another factor is what the Presidents and backers intend ... there are examples of those that directly further their business from it, there are those that seek the glamour and are prepared to pay for it, also those that need to make a profit to stay in it and a new wave, imo, who want to radically change the game and lead change. I could name Presidents and investments in the Top14 that cover all those types.

Naj, it's a big subject and very prevalent to the evolution of Pro Rugby but ...I really don't want to go further at the mo ;)

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Sun Oct 01, 2017 9:48 pm
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