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Cudmore slams Clermont 
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Post Cudmore slams Clermont
A real problem in France, who will forget the terrible treatment of Florian Fritz in 2014.

Jamie Cudmore Gives Frightening Account Of Rugby Club's Lax Approach To Concussion


Quote:
I suffered some pretty bad after effects after two concussions in a short period of time of the 2015 European Cup semi-final and two weeks later in the final.

I was involved in a head collision in the semi-final in Saint-Etienne. I was taken off the field for blood but our doctor realised that I'd had a concussion. I was taken off the field for blood and for the HIA (Head Injury Assessment) which happened in the changing room during that game. I was deemed unfit to play. I was told to take off my boots and sit down.

A few minutes later the doctor came running back in the changing room and said 'Listen, the other second row is no good. Can you come back on?' Like any rugby player, we always want to play. I said 'Yeah. Sweet.' I laced my boots back up and went out and finished the game.


https://www.balls.ie/rugby/jamie-cudmore/355430

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Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:00 pm
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Post Re: Cudmore slams Clermont
Leinsterblue wrote:
A real problem in France, who will forget the terrible treatment of Florian Fritz in 2014.

Jamie Cudmore Gives Frightening Account Of Rugby Club's Lax Approach To Concussion




Unfortunately everywhere ....currently under much debate.

One will never forget the hugely tragic case in Ireland too ...

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/ ... ugby-union

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Wed Jan 04, 2017 4:47 pm
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Post Re: Cudmore slams Clermont
Jamie Cudmore Describes Clermont's Stunningly Hostile Reaction To His Concussion Complaints

Quote:
Cudmore said that the doctors involved in treating him subsequently altered his story, to read that he did in fact pass the Head Injury Assessment during the game against Saracens and that the reason he was vomiting was because of "the over-excitement of the final."

Cudmore said he drafted a letter with his lawyer, stating the facts of what happened over those two April weeks and asking Clermont to assure him that in future the World Rugby rules would be adhered to; that no other player would have to go through the same treatment that he had been through and that players would in future be taken off the pitch if in a similar condition.

And what, Cudmore was asked, was Clermont's response to his letter?


Quote:
The two doctors said that I was lying, the coach and the general manager re-iterated that I am betraying the club by attacking them like this.

I said, 'Listen, guys. I'm not attacking anybody. What I am doing here is I'm putting a line in the sand, saying: this is what happened. I'm not happy with it. And I just want you guys to assure me that it's not going to happen again.'

All I got (in response) was anger, disbelief that I would even have the gall to bring something like that up. And especially in the form of a letter.


https://www.balls.ie/rugby/jamie-cudmor ... ion-356297

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Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:08 pm
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Post Re: Cudmore slams Clermont
This is him giving concussion, the real punch is at the very end :)


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Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:20 pm
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Post Re: Cudmore slams Clermont
Leinsterblue wrote:
Jamie Cudmore Describes Clermont's Stunningly Hostile Reaction To His Concussion Complaints

Quote:
Cudmore said that the doctors involved in treating him subsequently altered his story, to read that he did in fact pass the Head Injury Assessment during the game against Saracens and that the reason he was vomiting was because of "the over-excitement of the final."

Cudmore said he drafted a letter with his lawyer, stating the facts of what happened over those two April weeks and asking Clermont to assure him that in future the World Rugby rules would be adhered to; that no other player would have to go through the same treatment that he had been through and that players would in future be taken off the pitch if in a similar condition.

And what, Cudmore was asked, was Clermont's response to his letter?


Quote:
The two doctors said that I was lying, the coach and the general manager re-iterated that I am betraying the club by attacking them like this.

I said, 'Listen, guys. I'm not attacking anybody. What I am doing here is I'm putting a line in the sand, saying: this is what happened. I'm not happy with it. And I just want you guys to assure me that it's not going to happen again.'

All I got (in response) was anger, disbelief that I would even have the gall to bring something like that up. And especially in the form of a letter.


https://www.balls.ie/rugby/jamie-cudmor ... ion-356297

He wasnt attacking anybody....

He didn't take it to court after all.....


He reported that the 2 Doctors lied, but he hasn't pursued it.....


then ."..he only wanted to draw a line in the sand...".......

Therés distinctly 2 sides to this argument.

Somewhat ironic too that his record suggests that he has been often over physical and has been regarded as bit of a thug

I am not supporting either side because they have been examined without finding any liability.

Cudmore hasn't pursued his issues and ultimately just wants to 'draw a line'?

Although the reference you include is now, the case was really topical and addressed months ago e.g a lot of press last September

LB I suggest that maybe you should take Cudmores advice and desire and draw a line?

I do believe that Clubs and Unions have been delinquent :

Tlse were culpable ref the Fritz injury

The WRU were found to not have followed protocol in the North incident playing fir Wales

The Northampton liability has been suggested in the latest North case

The saddest of them all (reported above, death of Irish schoolboy) did reveal significant failures of duty.

The problem is now well highlighted and is being addressed but I fear that we have yet to treat it at source ...ie prevention of concussion and I suspect that it will be prevalent for a considerable time yet.

---------------------------------

Play time levels and increased serious injuries are topical

Use of drugs to enhance performance is also with us and some repercussions now begining have emerged where there is suspicion of later nervous system'serious illness from such medication.

The Sport has a lot to do to better address player welfare.

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Wed Jan 11, 2017 10:53 pm
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Post Re: Cudmore slams Clermont
God has spoken.. ;)

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Thu Jan 12, 2017 3:42 am
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Post Re: Cudmore slams Clermont
Langland Exile wrote:
God has spoken.. ;)


Any particular points made that you contend?

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Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:55 am
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Post Re: Cudmore slams Clermont
Tony Panties wrote:
Use of drugs to enhance performance is also with us and some repercussions now begining have emerged where there is suspicion of later nervous system'serious illness from such medication.

The Sport has a lot to do to better address player welfare.


Tel - interested to know what you mean about nervous systems repercussions ?

Also .. and I appreciate that this may seem overly synical but ... given that ..

There is no such thing as corporate morality ....

isn't it obvious that this is ALL about liability and NOTHING to do with welfare.


Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:01 am
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Post Re: Cudmore slams Clermont
welshy34 wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
Use of drugs to enhance performance is also with us and some repercussions now begining have emerged where there is suspicion of later nervous system'serious illness from such medication.

The Sport has a lot to do to better address player welfare.


Tel - interested to know what you mean about nervous systems repercussions ?

Also .. and I appreciate that this may seem overly synical but ... given that ..

There is no such thing as corporate morality ....

isn't it obvious that this is ALL about liability and NOTHING to do with welfare.


Ref nervous system issue...there has been press in the past concerning SA players of the same squad, including van Whesteruizen and consequence of associated performance enhancing drugs, steroids etc. One of the players died and another affected, van W instance of Motor Neurone much discussed but not specifically mentioned in the article. Cant find the ref at the moment, I.m on the road. However there is this reference

http://ewn.co.za/2014/11/19/Motor-Neuro ... ead-injury

Regarding the other point ...you are right to be cynical.

However 'guilt' can only be apportioned if delinquency is found?

Yes! The issue is that the processes were/are inadequate .

However, in the debateabove I have isolatedcases of delinquency and in the Cudmorecase it is 'open' and evidence suggests that the particular allegations have been tempered dow to a 'draw the line level'

I am anxious to highlightthe player welfare level to its total scope.

I believe that Players Unionwill gradually increase their level of executive clout.

Very little exists at the mo butthe increasing focus on the concerns will change that.

wjust my opinion

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Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:22 am
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Post Re: Cudmore slams Clermont
^^^^^^^^^^^
Apologies for typos ... bloody ipad touch screen :D

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Thu Jan 12, 2017 11:29 am
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Post Re: Cudmore slams Clermont
Ref above SA instances etc

I have this in my archives

Tag Archives: research
May 31 2011
Joostlike! One Too Many

Tuesday 31 May 2011: 4 years 8 months on … DEUCE


“Here is why you must test for steroids: Ruben Kruger, Andre Venter, Joost van der Westhuizen, Wium Basson, All Springboks in the same team, all seriously ill or dead from nerve related illness. SARU! If it is caused by steroids you must act. If it is caused by the game it must be banned (however much it is part of my soul)

The inference here is that nerve related illness may be caused by rugby and/or the use of steroids. This comment quickly did the rounds on Facebook and was added to by many of the social network’s “expert” doctors. I also threw in my money’s worth – I have the “nerve thing” but was never a rugby player or a steroids user. If the inference is correct then I have lost out yet again: I could have had the “nerve thing” and big muscles! (Ironically, just on Monday it was suggested to me to request my doctor to prescribe testosterone/steroid injections in order to build up my atrophying muscles brought on by the CBD!)

My curiosity led me to read up on the above-mentioned players, or in modern-day parlance, I “googled” these names, and found the following amongst the players of the 1995 SA Rugby World Cup champions:

Ruben Kruger had a brain tumour, Andre Venter transverse myelitis (a disease of the spinal cord possibly brought on by disorders of the spinal blood vessels), Joost van der Westhuizen MND, Wium Basson liver cancer and Otto Krynauw brain haemorrhage.

Googling steroids, I found that the use of steroids may lead to many health issues, inter alia, cardiovascular and liver problems. So there may be a link … or is there?

According to my further reading on neurological illnesses, about 90% of cases of MND are “sporadic”, meaning that the patient has no family history of ALS and the case appears to have occurred with no known cause. Genetic factors are suspected to be important in determining an individual’s susceptibility to disease, and there is some weak evidence to suggest that onset may be “triggered” by as yet unknown environmental factors.

The bottom line is that cause of illness is as yet unknown and there is currently no cure. Most cases of MND progress quite quickly and MND is typically fatal within two to five years (although we have seen that Hawking has lived for more than 40 years with the disease).

And this seems to be the pattern with all neurological illnesses – as yet, no known cause and no known cure.

So maybe a call for more research/investigation into the use of steroids is warranted. At the same time, maybe an investigation into school sport is warranted. One of the topics discussed at our recent reunion was the comparison between the size of players 25 years ago and their size today.


https://edlunnon.wordpress.com/tag/research/

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Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:23 pm
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Post Re: Cudmore slams Clermont
Tony Panties wrote:
Ref above SA instances etc

I have this in my archives

Tag Archives: research
May 31 2011
Joostlike! One Too Many

Tuesday 31 May 2011: 4 years 8 months on … DEUCE


“Here is why you must test for steroids: Ruben Kruger, Andre Venter, Joost van der Westhuizen, Wium Basson, All Springboks in the same team, all seriously ill or dead from nerve related illness. SARU! If it is caused by steroids you must act. If it is caused by the game it must be banned (however much it is part of my soul)

The inference here is that nerve related illness may be caused by rugby and/or the use of steroids. This comment quickly did the rounds on Facebook and was added to by many of the social network’s “expert” doctors. I also threw in my money’s worth – I have the “nerve thing” but was never a rugby player or a steroids user. If the inference is correct then I have lost out yet again: I could have had the “nerve thing” and big muscles! (Ironically, just on Monday it was suggested to me to request my doctor to prescribe testosterone/steroid injections in order to build up my atrophying muscles brought on by the CBD!)

My curiosity led me to read up on the above-mentioned players, or in modern-day parlance, I “googled” these names, and found the following amongst the players of the 1995 SA Rugby World Cup champions:

Ruben Kruger had a brain tumour, Andre Venter transverse myelitis (a disease of the spinal cord possibly brought on by disorders of the spinal blood vessels), Joost van der Westhuizen MND, Wium Basson liver cancer and Otto Krynauw brain haemorrhage.

Googling steroids, I found that the use of steroids may lead to many health issues, inter alia, cardiovascular and liver problems. So there may be a link … or is there?

According to my further reading on neurological illnesses, about 90% of cases of MND are “sporadic”, meaning that the patient has no family history of ALS and the case appears to have occurred with no known cause. Genetic factors are suspected to be important in determining an individual’s susceptibility to disease, and there is some weak evidence to suggest that onset may be “triggered” by as yet unknown environmental factors.

The bottom line is that cause of illness is as yet unknown and there is currently no cure. Most cases of MND progress quite quickly and MND is typically fatal within two to five years (although we have seen that Hawking has lived for more than 40 years with the disease).

And this seems to be the pattern with all neurological illnesses – as yet, no known cause and no known cure.

So maybe a call for more research/investigation into the use of steroids is warranted. At the same time, maybe an investigation into school sport is warranted. One of the topics discussed at our recent reunion was the comparison between the size of players 25 years ago and their size today.


https://edlunnon.wordpress.com/tag/research/

The MNDa privately accept that Hawking doesn't have MND, rather he has muscular atrophy, tangential, I know, but it annoys me to see him passed off as having MND.

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Thu Jan 12, 2017 1:55 pm
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Post Re: Cudmore slams Clermont
Tony Panties wrote
Quote:
LB I suggest that maybe you should take Cudmores advice and desire and draw a line?


Hi Tel happy new year to you, cudmore does not appear to have drawn a line as the report I mentioned came from a radio interview he gave on Tuesday of this week to Irish radio. I think Welshy34 was spot on that Clubs fear liability more than player welfare and this is put into sharp focus when you consider the financial settlements paid out by the NFL in 2016 which totaled $1 billion dollars ( for ref look here http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/s ... -1.2926673 ) for player brain trauma and injury , the TOP14 does not appear to have a good track record on player welfare and could be storing up some very costly settlements for the future, some settlements we may not hear of (like Cudmore dropping his case all of a sudden ) but hopefully they will wise up soon..

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Luck of the Irish for Leinster again.- JonnyJugLicker

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLZ_kbWCvTU


Thu Jan 12, 2017 8:06 pm
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Post Re: Cudmore slams Clermont
Leinsterblue wrote:
Tony Panties wrote
Quote:
LB I suggest that maybe you should take Cudmores advice and desire and draw a line?


Hi Tel happy new year to you, cudmore does not appear to have drawn a line as the report I mentioned came from a radio interview he gave on Tuesday of this week to Irish radio. I think Welshy34 was spot on that Clubs fear liability more than player welfare and this is put into sharp focus when you consider the financial settlements paid out by the NFL in 2016 which totaled $1 billion dollars ( for ref look here http://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/s ... -1.2926673 ) for player brain trauma and injury , the TOP14 does not appear to have a good track record on player welfare and could be storing up some very costly settlements for the future, some settlements we may not hear of (like Cudmore dropping his case all of a sudden ) but hopefully they will wise up soon..


Bonne Année et Bonne Santé a vous aussi ;)

The issue is widespread and youngsters the most vulnerable.

The tragic schoolboy death is now going to court

http://www.gtigazette.com/rugby-concussion/

Sale player too ..

http://www.smh.com.au/rugby-union/union ... r0jat.html

Undoubtedly there will be more.

I would agree that lack of comprehensive duty of care, despite adherence to procedures, is prevalent. liability can only be easily linked to abuse of formal process and these procedures need tighter and more specific ruling.

As stated above I see the need for a much more active executive role for Players Union.

Also, as stated above, concussion is only the tip of the iceberg. The scope of significant injury is comprehensive.The effect of e.g performance enhancing drugs and general medication abuse is very active. Recent reports from SA suggest that the incidence of use of supplements in U18 Rugby players is 55%.

http://www.news24.com/Video/Sport/study ... t-20160808

The immediate and longer term effect is more difficult to understand in this instance. Studies are more underway with the concussion aftermath.

Rugby is now a dangerous Sport Internationaly with much more specialised participation and consequential risk of litigation.

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Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:04 pm
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Post Re: Cudmore slams Clermont
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

the reference to the father of the schoolboy taking World Rugby, IRFU and others to court shouldve been the follwing reference and will be a very significant event given that level of complaint

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/ ... 71233.html

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Thu Jan 12, 2017 10:58 pm
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