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Points or position for Button? 
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Post Points or position for Button?
Points or position

Was Honda right to pull Button over before he crossed the line or not.

For those not familiar wit the new rules, an engine must last 2 ?race weekends? this includes practice, qualifying and the race. If a car has an engine change within 2 ?race weekends? of the last, the car takes a 10 place drop in grid positions qualified.

If a car does not finish a race due to engine failure, this does not apply. If button had finished, he would have moved into 3rd place in the table, but had to drop 10 places next race (Monaco, place is ALL as passing is almost impossible. Remember Mansell on quallie tyres trying to pass Senna on shot rubber? Couldn?t do it).

Were they right to sacrifice a temporary 3rd position in the drivers table for position next race?

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Sun Apr 02, 2006 6:26 pm
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Wrong, should have taken the three points and the penalty. Other drivers have come from the back of the grid to the podium, besides, he might break down again anyway.

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Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:04 pm
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simondavis wrote:
Wrong, should have taken the three points and the penalty. Other drivers have come from the back of the grid to the podium, besides, he might break down again anyway.


Even in Monaco?

anyother race i would agree, but 10 back in Monaco is a big fine

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Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:10 pm
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MobyDuck wrote:
simondavis wrote:
Wrong, should have taken the three points and the penalty. Other drivers have come from the back of the grid to the podium, besides, he might break down again anyway.


Even in Monaco?

anyother race i would agree, but 10 back in Monaco is a big fine


Rapid change of opinion here. Forgot it was Monaco. Whoever leads first corner usually wins. :?

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Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:34 pm
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simondavis wrote:
MobyDuck wrote:
simondavis wrote:
Wrong, should have taken the three points and the penalty. Other drivers have come from the back of the grid to the podium, besides, he might break down again anyway.


Even in Monaco?

anyother race i would agree, but 10 back in Monaco is a big fine


Rapid change of opinion here. Forgot it was Monaco. Whoever leads first corner usually wins. :?


:lol:

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Sun Apr 02, 2006 7:47 pm
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simondavis wrote:
MobyDuck wrote:
simondavis wrote:
Wrong, should have taken the three points and the penalty. Other drivers have come from the back of the grid to the podium, besides, he might break down again anyway.


Even in Monaco?

anyother race i would agree, but 10 back in Monaco is a big fine


Rapid change of opinion here. Forgot it was Monaco. Whoever leads first corner usually wins. :?


My Appologies Simon, it is me who is wrong, the next race is in fact Imola. And it is me who change my mind. Should have taken the points, even though imola is a bit of an engine killer.

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Sun Apr 02, 2006 8:14 pm
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I'm pleased that I'm not the only F1 anorak on this forum anyway Moby. :? For the life of me I don't know why, but todays race I thought was the best one for ages, Buttons car wasn't up to the rolling restarts but to see Raikonen go past him was a joy to behold with the risk that he took to get past him. As was watching Schumacher hammering it to get to Button and for once going into the wall in his being on the very edge.

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Sun Apr 02, 2006 9:34 pm
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simondavis wrote:
I'm pleased that I'm not the only F1 anorak on this forum anyway Moby. :? For the life of me I don't know why, but todays race I thought was the best one for ages, Buttons car wasn't up to the rolling restarts but to see Raikonen go past him was a joy to behold with the risk that he took to get past him. As was watching Schumacher hammering it to get to Button and for once going into the wall in his being on the very edge.



For no sensible reason at all, ( strange as I have always been a McLlarren fan until lately ) I don?t like Rikenen or Whaan.

I am sort of between teams at the moment and sort of gravitate towards Button as he is our best hope of a British driver win now that DC is a second rater. Davidson will be along soon though

Roomer has it that Dave Richards ( EX prodrive, but flavour of the day at Subaru ) is entering a team next year, as is Eddie Jordan with Irvine as a partner funded / powered by a well known Malaysian maker who owns what remains of the old Yamaha F1 engine.

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Sun Apr 02, 2006 9:50 pm
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MobyDuck wrote:
simondavis wrote:
Wrong, should have taken the three points and the penalty. Other drivers have come from the back of the grid to the podium, besides, he might break down again anyway.


Even in Monaco?

anyother race i would agree, but 10 back in Monaco is a big fine


not when every bugger crashes. im hopeing for a 3 car finish with loads of pile ups.

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Mon Apr 03, 2006 8:58 am
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welshbean wrote:
MobyDuck wrote:
simondavis wrote:
Wrong, should have taken the three points and the penalty. Other drivers have come from the back of the grid to the podium, besides, he might break down again anyway.


Even in Monaco?

anyother race i would agree, but 10 back in Monaco is a big fine


not when every bugger crashes. im hopeing for a 3 car finish with loads of pile ups.


most of the race under the safety car then :?

I must admit a few times I would have liked to have seen a Minardi 1 ? 2 with just 2 finishers

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Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:24 am
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Imola's historically hard to pass, though. Button has run well there in the past few years and so they wanted to start him near the front to give him the best opportunity. I think that a win means more to the team (and Button) then getting 3 points and that showed in their decision. It's not like they had ages to make the call either - and Rubens picked up an extra place so the team only lost 2 points. A lot for a lower placed team, but I don't think it matters all that much to Honda.

The problem with the Honda was that he couldn't work his tyres hard enough at low speeds to keep the temp/pressures up and so struggled behind the safety car. Can't see them solving the problem quickly as it relates to the downforce philosophy when the car was designed. If there aren't many more safety cars (hard to imagine with Massa up the front end of the grid) then it shouldn't be much of a handicap for the rest of the season.

I reckon the engine rule changes really benefit Button's smooth driving style as the engine/grip balance is much more even this year then before. In past years the additional engine torque would allow you to lose very little time if you got slides going - which isn't the case now.

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Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:45 am
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Jase wrote:
Imola's historically hard to pass, though. Button has run well there in the past few years and so they wanted to start him near the front to give him the best opportunity. I think that a win means more to the team (and Button) then getting 3 points and that showed in their decision. It's not like they had ages to make the call either - and Rubens picked up an extra place so the team only lost 2 points. A lot for a lower placed team, but I don't think it matters all that much to Honda.

The problem with the Honda was that he couldn't work his tyres hard enough at low speeds to keep the temp/pressures up and so struggled behind the safety car. Can't see them solving the problem quickly as it relates to the downforce philosophy when the car was designed. If there aren't many more safety cars (hard to imagine with Massa up the front end of the grid) then it shouldn't be much of a handicap for the rest of the season.

I reckon the engine rule changes really benefit Button's smooth driving style as the engine/grip balance is much more even this year then before. In past years the additional engine torque would allow you to lose very little time if you got slides going - which isn't the case now.


Doubt if we will have a race with track temperatures as low or grip so bad again this year. I think that short ban last year knocked them back far more than expected, so lets hope the pole picks them up. It could be that they are hoping for pole next time too, so a fresh engine will be a big help here, it will also allow them more flexibility in practice and preparation for the race. Without the safety cars I think Button would have had a second, but I doubt he would have won.

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Mon Apr 03, 2006 11:58 am
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MobyDuck wrote:
welshbean wrote:
MobyDuck wrote:
simondavis wrote:
Wrong, should have taken the three points and the penalty. Other drivers have come from the back of the grid to the podium, besides, he might break down again anyway.


Even in Monaco?

anyother race i would agree, but 10 back in Monaco is a big fine


not when every bugger crashes. im hopeing for a 3 car finish with loads of pile ups.


most of the race under the safety car then :?

I must admit a few times I would have liked to have seen a Minardi 1 ? 2 with just 2 finishers


thats why i like monaco as it gives the pooorer teams a chance of gettingsome points.

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Since 1410 most Welsh people most of the time have abandoned any idea of independence as unthinkable. But since 1410 most Welsh people, at some time or another, if only in some secret corner of the mind, have been "out with Owain and his barefoot scrubs." For the Welsh mind is still haunted by it's lightning-flash vision of a people that was free.

Gwyn A. Williams,


Mon Apr 03, 2006 12:42 pm
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MobyDuck wrote:
Jase wrote:
Imola's historically hard to pass, though. Button has run well there in the past few years and so they wanted to start him near the front to give him the best opportunity. I think that a win means more to the team (and Button) then getting 3 points and that showed in their decision. It's not like they had ages to make the call either - and Rubens picked up an extra place so the team only lost 2 points. A lot for a lower placed team, but I don't think it matters all that much to Honda.

The problem with the Honda was that he couldn't work his tyres hard enough at low speeds to keep the temp/pressures up and so struggled behind the safety car. Can't see them solving the problem quickly as it relates to the downforce philosophy when the car was designed. If there aren't many more safety cars (hard to imagine with Massa up the front end of the grid) then it shouldn't be much of a handicap for the rest of the season.

I reckon the engine rule changes really benefit Button's smooth driving style as the engine/grip balance is much more even this year then before. In past years the additional engine torque would allow you to lose very little time if you got slides going - which isn't the case now.


Doubt if we will have a race with track temperatures as low or grip so bad again this year. I think that short ban last year knocked them back far more than expected, so lets hope the pole picks them up. It could be that they are hoping for pole next time too, so a fresh engine will be a big help here, it will also allow them more flexibility in practice and preparation for the race. Without the safety cars I think Button would have had a second, but I doubt he would have won.


I agree with Button racing for second - rather than first - his car isn't up to it and Alonso/Renault don't seem to make too many mistakes. I doubt Button will stick too many miles on his fresh engine next race, as they have Davison doing that for them in both practice sessions - that'll probably allow him to keep a lot of laps for qualifying and then allow him to run higher revs in the race. He'll also have the advantage that a lot of other drivers will be on their second race weekend (for the engine) and may well have to run at slightly lower revs (or not be allowed to use as many "overtaking boosts").

As for Grip Canada is pretty poor too, maybe they'll struggle there as well?

I reckon Button will be in the top 5 by the end of the season, though - not bad for a team/driver that have never won a race.

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Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:09 pm
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welshbean wrote:
thats why i like monaco as it gives the pooorer teams a chance of gettingsome points.


Personally I find Monaco the most boring race of the season (track totty not included) as it's the one that'smost like a procession.

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Mon Apr 03, 2006 1:10 pm
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