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Progress in Welsh Rugby ??? 
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Post Re: Progress in Welsh Rugby ???
Don't understand the obsession with age grade teams, how is that going to help? I think the concept of the 19 year old tight five forward who looks promising has done a lot of damage to our forward play, and these teams will only perpetuate that.


Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:43 am
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Post Re: Progress in Welsh Rugby ???
Blindside wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
Blindside wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
Blindside wrote:
So Premiership to drop to 12 clubs end of next season, possibly five clubs relegated 5th club probably in a playoff with top side in the Championship.

Funding to remain same next season just over £90,000 but to reduce gradually to around £55,000 over 4 years. That money to be spent on coaches, facilities and medical professionals etc not wages for players.

The Premiership to be at the top of the "club game" consultants have decided that "club game" should now replace the term community game. The Premiership clubs offered advice on how to maximise their business potential. £10,000 parachute payment for teams dropping down to The Championship.

"Every game matters" being the catchphrase for all "progress"

The 4 under 23 teams play cross-border competition that becomes the feeder for the regions.

BBC Wales interested in televising Premiership matches but the WRU do not feed that money back into that league as they are subsidised already.

No ring-fencing of RGC.

"A" license abolished so no need of large stand etc, but suitable playing field and changing rooms and basic facilities still a criteria.


BS can you explain the highlighted quote and it's potential please ...that is a very broad spectrum?

Meanwhile, presumably the full WRU Board remains as is?



The board wasn't discussed, so i cant say really. Reference was made to consultants and i assume its marketing they were referring to rather than organisational, so i'd say they were involved in presenting the changes rather than advising on them. The term club game just replaces the term community game the implications or just branding.


It just seems a large blanket cover.

When I look at the last 2017 Annual report there is less differentiation in Rugby terms Regions, Premiership, Community Rugby is now just Regions and Premiership then.

I still wonder what the 21 people Board of Directors really exert in terms of presence, activity and governance.

The Executive Board seems to have the following who are more directed towards Rugby and the Game :

Geraint John ...'Head of Rugby Performance'

Ryan Jones 'Head of Rugby Participation'
and
Julie Paterson ..'Head of Rugby Operations'

(only her role really mentions what she is responsible for ...NDC system, Admin of RSA, Liaison with other Rugby bodies, also relationships with others 'Welsh Govt' , Sport Wales etc

Any clarification from anybody on the above??

Clear responsibilities and inter-relationship are fundamental in running a 'Business' especially a 'Mutual' type organisation which the WRU is.

The non executive Chairman answers to the Board etc ..;

Edit : and there's the perennial question on the Regions now an amalgam of independent and semi independent business and their representative body the PRW

http://prorugbywales.com/about-us/




No i dont think "community rugby" is a term they want to be used any more Tel. It as been rebranded as "club rugby". It appeared that telling the Premiership clubs they role was to be at the pinnacle of Club Rugby was more palatable then telling them they were at the pinnacle of Community Rugby. In effect the role of the Premiership as a pathway is over. Its a culdesac on a rather rough housing estate.


Different colour paint eh ;)

But I must say that the concept of streamlining and reshaping the executive and trying to adapt it to better fit Pro Rugby does look like a sensible step ahead (see post(s) above). I'm surprised that the turkeys voted for it.
Of course we've yet to see what this significant move will entail.

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Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:57 am
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Post Re: Progress in Welsh Rugby ???
Tony Panties wrote:
Blindside wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
Blindside wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
Blindside wrote:
So Premiership to drop to 12 clubs end of next season, possibly five clubs relegated 5th club probably in a playoff with top side in the Championship.

Funding to remain same next season just over £90,000 but to reduce gradually to around £55,000 over 4 years. That money to be spent on coaches, facilities and medical professionals etc not wages for players.

The Premiership to be at the top of the "club game" consultants have decided that "club game" should now replace the term community game. The Premiership clubs offered advice on how to maximise their business potential. £10,000 parachute payment for teams dropping down to The Championship.

"Every game matters" being the catchphrase for all "progress"

The 4 under 23 teams play cross-border competition that becomes the feeder for the regions.

BBC Wales interested in televising Premiership matches but the WRU do not feed that money back into that league as they are subsidised already.

No ring-fencing of RGC.

"A" license abolished so no need of large stand etc, but suitable playing field and changing rooms and basic facilities still a criteria.


BS can you explain the highlighted quote and it's potential please ...that is a very broad spectrum?

Meanwhile, presumably the full WRU Board remains as is?



The board wasn't discussed, so i cant say really. Reference was made to consultants and i assume its marketing they were referring to rather than organisational, so i'd say they were involved in presenting the changes rather than advising on them. The term club game just replaces the term community game the implications or just branding.


It just seems a large blanket cover.

When I look at the last 2017 Annual report there is less differentiation in Rugby terms Regions, Premiership, Community Rugby is now just Regions and Premiership then.

I still wonder what the 21 people Board of Directors really exert in terms of presence, activity and governance.

The Executive Board seems to have the following who are more directed towards Rugby and the Game :

Geraint John ...'Head of Rugby Performance'

Ryan Jones 'Head of Rugby Participation'
and
Julie Paterson ..'Head of Rugby Operations'

(only her role really mentions what she is responsible for ...NDC system, Admin of RSA, Liaison with other Rugby bodies, also relationships with others 'Welsh Govt' , Sport Wales etc

Any clarification from anybody on the above??

Clear responsibilities and inter-relationship are fundamental in running a 'Business' especially a 'Mutual' type organisation which the WRU is.

The non executive Chairman answers to the Board etc ..;

Edit : and there's the perennial question on the Regions now an amalgam of independent and semi independent business and their representative body the PRW

http://prorugbywales.com/about-us/




No i dont think "community rugby" is a term they want to be used any more Tel. It as been rebranded as "club rugby". It appeared that telling the Premiership clubs they role was to be at the pinnacle of Club Rugby was more palatable then telling them they were at the pinnacle of Community Rugby. In effect the role of the Premiership as a pathway is over. Its a culdesac on a rather rough housing estate.


Different colour paint eh ;)

But I must say that the concept of streamlining and reshaping the executive and trying to adapt it to better fit Pro Rugby does look like a sensible step ahead (see post(s) above). I'm surprised that the turkeys voted for it.
Of course we've yet to see what this significant move will entail.


Same paint, different tin, I think!


Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:40 am
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Post Re: Progress in Welsh Rugby ???
Tony Panties wrote:
Different colour paint eh ;)

But I must say that the concept of streamlining and reshaping the executive and trying to adapt it to better fit Pro Rugby does look like a sensible step ahead (see post(s) above). I'm surprised that the turkeys voted for it.
Of course we've yet to see what this significant move will entail.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/43577111

There are basically two ways for the executive of the WRU to function.
The England/France type way.
Where because there are so many players and professional clubs it doesn't really matter that much whether the part of the executive whose priority is the long term success of the national game or the part of the executive whose priority is the short term success of the professional club game has the upper hand.
The SH/Ireland type way
Where because playing and/or financial resources are limited it matters that the part of the executive whose priority is the long term success of the national game have the upper hand.

However in our wisdom although we're a type two rugby country we insist on having a type one executive.


Fri Mar 30, 2018 9:47 am
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Post Re: Progress in Welsh Rugby ???
Good point, well made.
I've pointed it out before, but in France and England the pro club bodies administrate and run their own leagues. The pro body in Wales has nowhere near as much responsibility, but demands just as much clout. It's absurd, when you think about it.

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Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:02 am
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Post Re: Progress in Welsh Rugby ???
eog wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
Different colour paint eh ;)

But I must say that the concept of streamlining and reshaping the executive and trying to adapt it to better fit Pro Rugby does look like a sensible step ahead (see post(s) above). I'm surprised that the turkeys voted for it.
Of course we've yet to see what this significant move will entail.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/43577111

There are basically two ways for the executive of the WRU to function.
The England/France type way.
Where because there are so many players and professional clubs it doesn't really matter that much whether the part of the executive whose priority is the long term success of the national game or the part of the executive whose priority is the short term success of the professional club game has the upper hand.
The SH/Ireland type way
Where because playing and/or financial resources are limited it matters that the part of the executive whose priority is the long term success of the national game have the upper hand.

However in our wisdom although we're a type two rugby country we insist on having a type one executive.


Whichever way an effective Executive capable of defining and managing the best fit structure is essential.

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Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:45 am
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Post Re: Progress in Welsh Rugby ???
eog wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
Different colour paint eh ;)

But I must say that the concept of streamlining and reshaping the executive and trying to adapt it to better fit Pro Rugby does look like a sensible step ahead (see post(s) above). I'm surprised that the turkeys voted for it.
Of course we've yet to see what this significant move will entail.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/rugby-union/43577111

There are basically two ways for the executive of the WRU to function.
The England/France type way.
Where because there are so many players and professional clubs it doesn't really matter that much whether the part of the executive whose priority is the long term success of the national game or the part of the executive whose priority is the short term success of the professional club game has the upper hand.
The SH/Ireland type way
Where because playing and/or financial resources are limited it matters that the part of the executive whose priority is the long term success of the national game have the upper hand.

However in our wisdom although we're a type two rugby country we insist on having a type one executive.



Yes, good points well made.

From my point of view, the changes are somewhat irrelevant, i do not believe we have the quality of under 23 people available to make up four squads, especially as the ones good enough to play regional rugby will be playing it. In all likelihood, the strength of the teams will be below the strength of The Premiership, which is low, indeed the Premiership is a reflection of the best of the amateur game not the worst of the professional one. There is no attempt to broach that. I do not believe that the structure at the stage it is introduced will significantly change the end result, for the regions or team Wales in terms of player quality.

As for the Premiership, their lack of foresight made them an irrelevance to everything other than themselves. It is a vain parody of a bygone age. The links to the professional game are almost non-existent other than for the occasional game for a young professional stepping down, nothing is stepping up. The Premiership could collapse and payment at that level completely stop and it would make not a jot of difference to the "community game".

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Fri Mar 30, 2018 11:59 am
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Post Re: Progress in Welsh Rugby ???
Comparison of major Rugby countries can also be misleading, an example :

England and France appear to have the major clout and certainly have that in terms of size and extent but there are significant differences ...

The FFR is relatively poor compared to the RFU to a tune of about 50% with regard to budget and revenue. The FFR do not own a Stadium Cash Cow. But there is more potential income and investment in the Professional game ie, in the case of France, the LNR.

That difference manifests itself in their management of the total game.

The RFU/PRL is much more of a partnership.

However both the PRL and LNR have much more control of European Rugby in the shape of Club governance of the EPCR.

The Unions are running scared of this in terms of a potentially burgeoning w/wide Club geography.

This then manifests itself wrt the Super Rugby and S Hemp presence especially if SA 'jump ship' with an increased presence in N hemp.

It's very volatile and the more one scratches the surface the more volatile it becomes ....

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Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:00 pm
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Post Re: Progress in Welsh Rugby ???
Still sounds a bit untidy to me but challenging to reconcile so many different ambitions

Still sounds as if the WRU are concerned about the progress of the regional and national side above all else...but not doing a particularly good job of managing the semi pro aspect

As it all comes from the same budget and the exec management at regional level is a disgrace... the wru have too many competing objectives


Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:32 pm
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Post Re: Progress in Welsh Rugby ???
AverageBBCjournalist wrote:
Still sounds a bit untidy to me but challenging to reconcile so many different ambitions

Still sounds as if the WRU are concerned about the progress of the regional and national side above all else...but not doing a particularly good job of managing the semi pro aspect

As it all comes from the same budget and the exec management at regional level is a disgrace... the wru have too many competing objectives


They have to promote the Pro game at all costs in the short term, to fund their own salaries...an empty Principality Stadium would have them all out of work.
Where else can you pick up that kind of money for doing sweet FA? ;)

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Fri Mar 30, 2018 1:42 pm
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Post Re: Progress in Welsh Rugby ???
Langland Exile wrote:
AverageBBCjournalist wrote:
Still sounds a bit untidy to me but challenging to reconcile so many different ambitions

Still sounds as if the WRU are concerned about the progress of the regional and national side above all else...but not doing a particularly good job of managing the semi pro aspect

As it all comes from the same budget and the exec management at regional level is a disgrace... the wru have too many competing objectives


They have to promote the Pro game at all costs in the short term, to fund their own salaries...an empty Principality Stadium would have them all out of work.
Where else can you pick up that kind of money for doing sweet FA? ;)


Like Roger?

In fairness Davies as Chairman has reformed the Executive something Roge wanted to do and Picring ducceeded in getting himself kicked out and Roger followed.

Why the extreme bias and continual caustic comments?

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Fri Mar 30, 2018 3:22 pm
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Post Re: Progress in Welsh Rugby ???
Langland Exile wrote:
AverageBBCjournalist wrote:
Still sounds a bit untidy to me but challenging to reconcile so many different ambitions

Still sounds as if the WRU are concerned about the progress of the regional and national side above all else...but not doing a particularly good job of managing the semi pro aspect

As it all comes from the same budget and the exec management at regional level is a disgrace... the wru have too many competing objectives


They have to promote the Pro game at all costs in the short term, to fund their own salaries...an empty Principality Stadium would have them all out of work.
Where else can you pick up that kind of money for doing sweet FA? ;)


Yes there is a fair bit of short termism but I just can’t see how the wru can make decision like invest in coaching at age grade level when the Premiership are essentially funding a bloated system of has been s and never where’s

It’s a pain as a lot of the clubs have an impact t in the regional organisations due the way the regions can about

Also there is a lot history in these clubs so should they be funded to protect the history of the game in Wales


Fri Mar 30, 2018 4:50 pm
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Post Re: Progress in Welsh Rugby ???
Blindside wrote:
i fail to see how the standard will improve, as 4 teams have been created at under 23 level, many of them would have been playing in the Premiership.
.



A long time ago I suggested that below the regions should be something akin to American college Football where young teams fought it out for the best.

I was pilloried because ancient forwards with more brawn than brains would crucify the kids.

Clearly leaving the over 28's out of the loop was a bad move for acceptance of common sense.

If you want the game to improve you have to work on the game, not the social context that asserts an old dog must have its day.

Then perhaps a concept of 'form', an ability to repeat performance to the same degree without being wasted by village celebration, might take hold.

The fundemental problem in Welsh Rugby is its lack of form .. every mistake is forgiven after a few beers ..


Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:50 pm
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Post Re: Progress in Welsh Rugby ???
Blindside wrote:
i fail to see how the standard will improve, as 4 teams have been created at under 23 level, many of them would have been playing in the Premiership.
.



A long time ago I suggested that below the regions should be something akin to American college Football where young teams fought it out for the best.

I was pilloried because ancient forwards with more brawn than brains would crucify the kids.

Clearly leaving the over 28's out of the loop was a bad move for acceptance of common sense.

If you want the game to improve you have to work on the game, not the social context that asserts an old dog must have its day.

Then perhaps a concept of 'form', an ability to repeat performance to the same degree without being wasted by village celebration, might take hold.

The fundamental problem in Welsh Rugby is its lack of form .. every mistake is forgiven after a few beers ..


Fri Mar 30, 2018 10:50 pm
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Post Re: Progress in Welsh Rugby ???
This is all about the region's having it all, the prem was always weaker than it.Should have been ,Ponty bucked the trend and attracted reasonable crowds, the Ebbw Vale hit the Prem with a good following and RGC hit the prem their good support , so time to screw around with the prem to make sure any one prepared to pay to watch rugby only has a choice of the favoured 4 and no one else, the prem teams should form a group and negotiate a.tv deal and find a sponsored on their own , they won't as the wruin and the Oliver's will make sure they are not able to match the pay that will be offered to the under 23s

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Sat Mar 31, 2018 9:51 am
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