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Decreased interest in Welsh rugby and rugby in general? 
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Post Re: Decreased interest in Welsh rugby and rugby in general?
Perhaps a more pertinent question would be "is there a decreased interest in Welsh rugby and all things Welsh in general"? It is difficult to think of which aspects of public life in Wales are genuinely thriving:

- Wales' economy remains one of the poorest in Western Europe, and has now reached the point where even parts of Eastern Europe have now overtaken it in terms of GDP per capita!

- The future of the steel industry and of manufacturing in general in Wales remains highly uncertain.

- The Tories have already abandoned rail electrification west of Cardiff, with the Swansea Bay Tidal Lagoon also uncertain.

- Support for the Welsh Assembly - let alone Plaid Cymru and Welsh independence - is also pretty stagnant, and doesn't come remotely close to support for devolution or even independence in Scotland.

- Despite all the promotion and investment in it, especially at school level, the Welsh language is at best stagnating and possibly declining, especially in its rural heartlands in North and West Wales.

- For all the recent fuss about the football team, it is just one game away from being all but ruled out of World Cup qualification. Swansea City, Wales' only Premiership team, is also in decline.

(Don't get me wrong. I love living in Swansea. Few things are more spectacular than the Gower Peninsula, and Mumbles on a Saturday afternoon is always fun. This doesn't mean, however, that I am blind to Wales' multiple problems. The difficulties in Welsh rugby are just one symptom out of many).


Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:43 pm
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Post Re: Decreased interest in Welsh rugby and rugby in general?
(This thread is possibly in the wrong section).

Cant say i really agree with any of the above.
Historically when the economy and standard of life were FAR lower people still attended and enjoyed rugby. Now compared to decades ago is a massive improvement so its not that.
Manufacturing industry (or outdated businesses refusing to modernise" really arent related here.
The welsh language also has sod all to do with it.
The tory government also has nothing to do with the malaise of welsh rugby.

Quite simply welsh rugby is a poor quality product that offers extremely poor value for money or entertainment. There are more fun things to get involved with.

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Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:15 pm
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Post Re: Decreased interest in Welsh rugby and rugby in general?
String wrote:
(This thread is possibly in the wrong section).

Cant say i really agree with any of the above.
Historically when the economy and standard of life were FAR lower people still attended and enjoyed rugby. Now compared to decades ago is a massive improvement so its not that.
Manufacturing industry (or outdated businesses refusing to modernise" really arent related here.
The welsh language also has sod all to do with it.
The tory government also has nothing to do with the malaise of welsh rugby.

Quite simply welsh rugby is a poor quality product that offers extremely poor value for money or entertainment. There are more fun things to get involved with.


What I meant was that the poverty (in all senses) in Welsh rugby is just one symptom of problems in Wales in general. Little money, little ambition...


Fri Oct 06, 2017 4:19 pm
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Post Re: Decreased interest in Welsh rugby and rugby in general?
Times have changed. It isn't the seventies any more. We have iPads and XBoxes and all seater stadia. The rugby club is no longer the hub of the community, people are more interested in staying at home and watching live Premiership football on their big screen TVs.
Rugby as an amateur sport, which can pull crowds of ten thousand, has had its day. Rugby as a pro sport is probably sustainable at International level in Wales, but below that its always going to be a struggle.

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Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:05 pm
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Post Re: Decreased interest in Welsh rugby and rugby in general?
spinbreath wrote:
Times have changed. It isn't the seventies any more. We have iPads and XBoxes and all seater stadia. The rugby club is no longer the hub of the community, people are more interested in staying at home and watching live Premiership football on their big screen TVs.
Rugby as an amateur sport, which can pull crowds of ten thousand, has had its day. Rugby as a pro sport is probably sustainable at International level in Wales, but below that its always going to be a struggle.


Of the four pro Welsh teams' stadia, only the Liberty is all-seater. I don't see the relevance of that.


Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:10 pm
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Post Re: Decreased interest in Welsh rugby and rugby in general?
najbritcol wrote:
spinbreath wrote:
Times have changed. It isn't the seventies any more. We have iPads and XBoxes and all seater stadia. The rugby club is no longer the hub of the community, people are more interested in staying at home and watching live Premiership football on their big screen TVs.
Rugby as an amateur sport, which can pull crowds of ten thousand, has had its day. Rugby as a pro sport is probably sustainable at International level in Wales, but below that its always going to be a struggle.


Of the four pro Welsh teams' stadia, only the Liberty is all-seater. I don't see the relevance of that.

Also the Millennium.
The relevance is you no longer get twenty thousand blokes in hats pissing in each others' pockets on the terraces. People want a better experience these days, and the prices have risen accordingly. There's no more tuppence hal'penny sneaking in and invading the pitch at the end.
Football is no longer a working class sport, and as rugby tries to emulate it through the professional model, it moves further away from what it was.

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Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:24 pm
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Post Re: Decreased interest in Welsh rugby and rugby in general?
Rugby will never have anything like the same money that football has, for the sheer simple fact that it is nowhere near as big globally in terms of either player numbers or countries that take it seriously. Swansea City - one of the poorest teams in the English Premiership - still makes at least ten times as much money as the Ospreys do. Football is popular and competitive everywhere except possibly Oceania and South Asia, whereas rugby is only played to a decent level in sixteen or so countries.


Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:31 pm
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Post Re: Decreased interest in Welsh rugby and rugby in general?
Indeed. But up until the nineties, there was no money in football either.
Everything has gone mental in the past few years, and Welsh rugby is a casualty. Is it a coincidence the pits have gone and the rugby has gone? Working class wasn't always synonymous with poverty. Before the days of long term benefit claimants, folk had decent jobs and money to spend.

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Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:38 pm
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Post Re: Decreased interest in Welsh rugby and rugby in general?
I hear the arguments above but is Wales truly a significant exception exception?

Is Rugby now replaced by football as the National Sport?

Why can't, for example, Cardiff with it's excellent, W/Wide history, good catchment, stadium positioning and potential now just a bottom feeder?

Scarlets are the most compromised by a lot of the arguments used above and they are in the van....?

Also, I sense from the comments above and some reasons given that the slide is irretrievable?

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Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:43 pm
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Post Re: Decreased interest in Welsh rugby and rugby in general?
najbritcol wrote:
spinbreath wrote:
Times have changed. It isn't the seventies any more. We have iPads and XBoxes and all seater stadia. The rugby club is no longer the hub of the community, people are more interested in staying at home and watching live Premiership football on their big screen TVs.
Rugby as an amateur sport, which can pull crowds of ten thousand, has had its day. Rugby as a pro sport is probably sustainable at International level in Wales, but below that its always going to be a struggle.


Of the four pro Welsh teams' stadia, only the Liberty is all-seater. I don't see the relevance of that.



It requires a bit of intelligence, alas.. ;)

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Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:51 pm
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Post Re: Decreased interest in Welsh rugby and rugby in general?
Tony Panties wrote:
I hear the arguments above but is Wales truly a significant exception exception?

Is Rugby now replaced by football as the National Sport?

Why can't, for example, Cardiff with it's excellent, W/Wide history, good catchment, stadium positioning and potential now just a bottom feeder?

Scarlets are the most compromised by a lot of the arguments used above and they are in the van....?

Also, I sense from the comments above and some reasons given that the slide is irretrievable?

I think Welsh rugby needs to find and accept its place. It can survive on a small scale, funded by proceeds from the international game, with a couple of pro outfits in a league. It can't continue to think it is above its station, it can't continue to believe it has a God given right to exist. We've seen what happens when teams think that because they were something forty years ago it entitles them to be something today. Newport clung on to an untenable situation for ten years too long. Cardiff are going down the pan. Ospreys seem to have given up.
There's a great sense of wasted time, vast egos being allowed an overly generous long, slow death instead of being put out of their misery.

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Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:59 pm
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Post Re: Decreased interest in Welsh rugby and rugby in general?
Tony Panties wrote:
I hear the arguments above but is Wales truly a significant exception exception?

Is Rugby now replaced by football as the National Sport?

Why can't, for example, Cardiff with it's excellent, W/Wide history, good catchment, stadium positioning and potential now just a bottom feeder?

Scarlets are the most compromised by a lot of the arguments used above and they are in the van....?

Also, I sense from the comments above and some reasons given that the slide is irretrievable?


There are some similar trends here...baseball attendance is way down across the board, which was the "people's sport", especially in the big cities like New York, where there are so many other things to do, even though the team is successful, (Yankees). Attending a game for 2 people you are looking at GBP130-150.

When I was a teenager, I would see every Scarlets game, unless I was playing away on Saturday myself, and as a treat, would see a couple of Swansea Town games. Other than the cinema, there was nowhere else to go..until around 16 or 17 and then the pubs beckoned.

I was amazed how there are now only 3 pubs on the Mumbles mile versus the 15 or so the in mid 1970's.

Consumption patterns have changed, drinking and driving was tolerated then, not now, and that has changed or modified some social behaviour.



.

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Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:00 pm
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Post Re: Decreased interest in Welsh rugby and rugby in general?
Again all of that comes down to a poor quality product that's too expensive. People are doing other things that provide more entertainment for the money.
You can't blame any outside factors, the idiots running the show are responsible for failing to adapt and modernise (or even attempt to.)

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'It's now very common to hear people say, "I'm rather offended by that", as if that gives them certain rights. It's no more than a whine. It has no meaning, it has no purpose, it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. "I'm offended by that." Well, so *fupping* what?' —Stephen Fry

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Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:02 pm
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Post Re: Decreased interest in Welsh rugby and rugby in general?
For me there are 2 main reasons, and some that are just annoyances on top of them.

1 to many irrelevant games. I include in this the Lions, the summer tour, some who tour here and repetitive games v NZ.
We are weary of watching, and the players come back knackered and play poorly

2 Teams playing not to lose, with smash bang wallop tactics and little or no allowance for player type or skill.

Contributing factors. In the grounds, there is so much noise from the PA you can not hear yourself think, let alone chat to someone next to you. I do not enjoy visiting big grounds at all now.

Fixture times are all over the shop, and it is impossible to plan for a weekend.
Some of the TV commentators are dire, and those with Welsh commentary do not have the English stream available online, where I am sure many watch, or would watch. I do not have or intend to get Sky, BT or any other cash sink so many of the games are non existent to me.


The idea of the SA teams does not seem to have worked, and I don't like the SA commentator BBC have added.

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Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:06 pm
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Post Re: Decreased interest in Welsh rugby and rugby in general?
Langland Exile wrote:
Tony Panties wrote:
I hear the arguments above but is Wales truly a significant exception exception?

Is Rugby now replaced by football as the National Sport?

Why can't, for example, Cardiff with it's excellent, W/Wide history, good catchment, stadium positioning and potential now just a bottom feeder?

Scarlets are the most compromised by a lot of the arguments used above and they are in the van....?

Also, I sense from the comments above and some reasons given that the slide is irretrievable?


There are some similar trends here...baseball attendance is way down across the board, which was the "people's sport", especially in the big cities like New York, where there are so many other things to do, even though the team is successful, (Yankees). Attending a game for 2 people you are looking at GBP130-150.

When I was a teenager, I would see every Scarlets game, unless I was playing away on Saturday myself, and as a treat, would see a couple of Swansea Town games. Other than the cinema, there was nowhere else to go..until around 16 or 17 and then the pubs beckoned.

I was amazed how there are now only 3 pubs on the Mumbles mile versus the 15 or so the in mid 1970's.

Consumption patterns have changed, drinking and driving was tolerated then, not now, and that has changed or modified some social behaviour.



.


David, it is not the Rugby in general ref your Baseball quote it is Welsh Rugby we are discussing..

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Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:08 pm
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